Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

Professor Moriarty · 22-01-2017 11:38PM

conditioned games wrote:

The evidence showed it wasn't a conspiracy, facts about the country are important not his individual finances. If you don't want to hear something then you make a snide comment about credibility

This is really astonishing stuff.

conditioned games · 22-01-2017 11:39PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

You don't mind that he lied though?
You expected, as per your last post, him to release them. So you obviously believed his obvious lies.
I didn't expect him to release his tax returns so I was pretty sure he was lying anyway,but your a fan and his team has just admitted they were lying to you. Repeatedly. And you believed him. Repeatedly.
And it doesn't effect how you view him?
Even after he made a fool of you on this thread.

Trump not releasing his tax returns is making a fool of me? His returns never bothered me, it seems to be a desperate issue for some but really is a non issue.

swampgas · 22-01-2017 11:40PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Does he not pay tax at all like all the property lads in the USA Hate the game not the player. We are told here apple are fine to do what they do.

Look over there - Apple! Really, can't you do better than that?

He said he would release them, now he says he won't. I never expected him too because I suspect his tax returns would show (at best) that he's not really the kind of billionaire he likes to pretend he is. At worst they would sink him.
If anything he reminds me a little of Robert Maxwell, only not half as smart.

gandalf · 22-01-2017 11:41PM

conditioned games wrote: »

The evidence showed it wasn't a conspiracy, facts about the country are important not his individual finances. If you don't want to hear something then you make a snide comment about credibility

What evidence? He hasn't released it! His personal finances are extremely important because if he is financially compromised then he is primed to be influenced in his decision making. If he has gained revenues from sources that collaborate the other allegations against him then that also calls his judgement into question.

He said he'd release them after the "audit", his team has admitted today that they never intended to release them. The questions now are why did they lie to the US public and why are they afraid to release them?

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2017 11:43PM

swampgas wrote: »

Look over there - Apple! Really, can't you do better than that?

He said he would release them, now he says he won't. I never expected him too because I suspect his tax returns would show (at best) that he's not really the kind of billionaire he likes to pretend he is. At worst they would sink him.
If anything he reminds me a little of Robert Maxwell, only not half as smart.

Sink him how exactly he is the President already ?? You imagine the next day an election being called on the revelation ?

HellSquirrel · 22-01-2017 11:43PM

conditioned games wrote: »

It's a conspiracy because you and the mainstream media says so? That letter with the coded language is not normal, along with Andrew Breitbart tweet before he died merited an investigation.

Oh god, Clinton murdered Andrew Breitbart as well? She must be the busiest assassin in American history.

conditioned games wrote: »

There his business interests, his message and willingness to speak about what is really going on in America is more important to me

Worrying. His message is clueless, his willingness to speak (ad nauseum) is unhelpful and his words never fail to be meaningless provocation with no actual substance.

Not too surprised about the tax returns. His audit story was disproved repeatedly and he just kept on with it. The lies are just amazing. Even about the pettiest things, like the number at Trump's inaugeration. In the face of photographic evidence, the -White House Press Secretary- lied blatantly.

Alternative facts. Even Kellyanne Conway is having trouble keeping up with this trainwreck.

swampgas · 22-01-2017 11:43PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Sink him how exactly he is the President already ?? You imagine the next day an election being called on the revelation ?

No. Impeachment, you might have heard of it.

B_Wayne · 22-01-2017 11:43PM

conditioned games wrote: »

The evidence showed it wasn't a conspiracy, facts about the country are important not his individual finances. If you don't want to hear something then you make a snide comment about credibility

You don't like facts, you like rubbish that fits a pretty convoluted world view that includes the Rothschilds.

Personal finances do matter, for a politician they can indicate if a person is being bought or has shady backers. Finance is a fantastic way to leverage people, it can display conflicts of interest and corruption.Trump has shown himself to be consistently untrustworthy on top of all of this.

Leroy42 · 22-01-2017 11:43PM

conditioned games wrote: »

Trump not releasing his tax returns is making a fool of me? His returns never bothered me, it seems to be a desperate issue for some but really is a non issue.

But you are not answering as to why the issues that not releasing the returns create? Do you not realise that there are issues.

Its not the amount of tax people are looking for, although that would be interesting, it is the details of his business dealings and possible areas of conflict

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2017 11:46PM

swampgas wrote: »

No. Impeachment, you might have heard of it.

On what grounds ? Lying about being a billionaire ?

Trent Houseboat · 22-01-2017 11:46PM

conditioned games wrote: »

Trump not releasing his tax returns is making a fool of me? His returns never bothered me, it seems to be a desperate issue for some but really is a non issue.

You said it was fine because he would release his returns after his audit, clearly having missed the news that Conway admitted they were lying about the audit all along making you, as a supporter , look foolish.

But I wasn't talking about the contents of his tax returns, thought you have to assume he's hiding something, I was talking about how you were lied to and used yet you still support him.
The rest of us knew we were being lied to so it's not a let down, but you believed him and should feel betrayed.

conditioned games · 22-01-2017 11:46PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what if he made his money on child pornography or slavery or drug dealing? I mean that would just be his business interests right?

When previous presidents released their tax returns they were able to hide sources of income that the public don't see. It's not a complete detailed account of where the income comes from, income falls under headings on the P&L where add backs and deductions for tax are later done.

Hank Scorpio · 22-01-2017 11:46PM

To be fair, even if there was something to the idea that DC is ripe with pedophiles it's likely nothing will ever be done about it

Leroy42 · 22-01-2017 11:49PM

conditioned games wrote: »

When previous presidents released their tax returns they were able to hide sources of income that the public don't see. It's not a complete detailed account of where the income comes from, income falls under headings on the P&L where add backs and deductions for tax are later done.

So thats is a no then?

I mean, by your explanation of the tax returns, why would Trump have any issue with releasing them?

The more people keep telling you there is nothing to see whilst making sure you can't ever check for yourself, the more likely there is something to see

conditioned games · 22-01-2017 11:52PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

So thats is a no then?

I mean, by your explanation of the tax returns, why would Trump have any issue with releasing them?

The more people keep telling you there is nothing to see whilst making sure you can't ever check for yourself, the more likely there is something to see

Like I already said he should release them but it's not a big issue for me.

swampgas · 22-01-2017 11:53PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

On what grounds ? Lying about being a billionaire ?

Nope - that would just embarrass the hell out of him. As well you know.

His taxes might show dealings with politically damaging groups or extreme conflicts of interest. Having massive debts to (say) Russian lenders would be ... interesting.

If he pisses the GOP off sufficiently they will find something to nail him with. They managed to impeach Bill Clinton over sex with an intern, you don't think they can't find (or invent!) something juicy on Trump?

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2017 11:53PM

conditioned games wrote: »

Like I already said he should release them but it's not a big issue for me.

It's laughable really like Barrys birth cert.

namloc1980 · 22-01-2017 11:54PM

conditioned games wrote: »

Trump not releasing his tax returns is making a fool of me? His returns never bothered me, it seems to be a desperate issue for some but really is a non issue.

His team lied. They said the return would be released once the "audit" was finished. But it seems in the world of "alternative facts" lies are now a non issue.

Trent Houseboat · 22-01-2017 11:55PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It's laughable really like Barrys birth cert.

Laughable in that every other candidate for the past 50 years released their birth certificate and it definitely wasn't in any way racist.
You're right my sides are splitting.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 12:00AM

swampgas wrote: »

Nope - that would just embarrass the hell out of him. As well you know.

His taxes might show dealings with politically damaging groups or extreme conflicts of interest. Having massive debts to (say) Russian lenders would be ... interesting.

If he pisses the GOP off sufficiently they will find something to nail him with. They managed to impeach Bill Clinton over sex with an intern, you don't think they can't find (or invent!) something juicy on Trump?

I would say he has already given it to the relevant authorities. Would it not be in relation the decelerations of business and alike. I would like to see it publicly but then again he does not have to. No point crying over it.

Fleawuss · 23-01-2017 12:04AM

Trump, Priebus, Spicer and Conway have buried their administration's credibility the first weekend. It's wonderful to see the desperate clutching at straws by their stooges here as they realize they're just as exposed. Honestly a few regulars here should close their accounts and slink off to rereg. We could have them back in a few weeks like "I'm not a Trump supporter but...".

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 12:04AM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Laughable in that every other candidate for the past 50 years released their birth certificate and it definitely wasn't in any way racist.
You're right my sides are splitting.

Laughable on peoples fixation..... Nutters thought Barry was African. Nutters think Trumps tax returns will vindicate their Nutty thoughts.

HellSquirrel · 23-01-2017 12:05AM

You know, a year ago, several people would have just quoted conditional games' comments with an arrow to the Conspiracy Forum. It says an awful lot about the standard of discourse this year that it is actually suitable for this thread because this sort of absolute nonsense has been part of the discourse against all reason, evidence and common sense.

But we've always had conspiracy theorists. What we've not had is determined, concerted effort to quite literally hypnotise people into thinking that stuff that is actually on record with video evidence isn't true. It is blanket lie after blanket lie, stopping only to quickly accuse someone else of a lie before continuing. You have to give up on the petty stuff, which is all the more alarming in its own way because it's so important. What does it actually matter if Trump's inaugeration crowd was tiny? He is deeply unpopular outside his demographic, so that's no surprise. But the White House Secretary of State came out and lied indignantly about it. The automatic impulse to lash back, and to immediately stoop to flat-out falsehood in the face of photographic and video evidence is a very worrying trait.

So if the administration is willing to toss out blatant lies about something cosmetic like this, how the hell can anyone trust a word they say on anything that might have more serious ramifications? What makes anyone think that their moral sense will suddenly stick when it comes to talking about the economy or what America's doing abroad? The cynical attempts to silence the press, to delegitimise the press, just backs up why that's such a bad sign.

The whole lot of them are so jaw-droppingly, laughably, incompetent in terms of how the government's being put together that it's easy to dismiss them as a pack of idiots. But there's very real steps being taken to make changes that will affect the whole country and the rest of the world and there is no transparency, no explanations, no real reason to trust anything they're doing or that they even have a plan B. And there's even ardent anti-liberalists in here that freely say that Trump is a fool (although then defend him to the hilt if there's a chance at getting a shot in), but all this is your problem too. American instability shakes the world.

Hank Scorpio · 23-01-2017 12:07AM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

You know, a year ago, several people would have just quoted conditional games' comments with an arrow to the Conspiracy Forum. It says an awful lot about the standard of discourse this year that it is actually suitable for this thread because this sort of absolute nonsense has been part of the discourse against all reason, evidence and common sense.

But we've always had conspiracy theorists. What we've not had is determined, concerted effort to quite literally hypnotise people into thinking that stuff that is actually on record with video evidence isn't true. It is blanket lie after blanket lie, stopping only to quickly accuse someone else of a lie before continuing. You have to give up on the petty stuff, which is all the more alarming in its own way because it's so important. What does it actually matter if Trump's inaugeration crowd was tiny? He is deeply unpopular outside his demographic, so that's no surprise. But the White House Secretary of State came out and lied indignantly about it. The automatic impulse to lash back, and to immediately stoop to flat-out falsehood in the face of photographic and video evidence is a very worrying trait.

So if the administration is willing to toss out blatant lies about something cosmetic like this, how the hell can anyone trust a word they say on anything that might have more serious ramifications? What makes anyone think that their moral sense will suddenly stick when it comes to talking about the economy or what America's doing abroad? The cynical attempts to silence the press, to delegitimise the press, just backs up why that's such a bad sign.

The whole lot of them are so jaw-droppingly, laughably, incompetent in terms of how the government's being put together that it's easy to dismiss them as a pack of idiots. But there's very real steps being taken to make changes that will affect the whole country and the rest of the world and there is no transparency, no explanations, no real reason to trust anything they're doing or that they even have a plan B. And there's even ardent anti-liberalists in here that freely say that Trump is a fool (although then defend him to the hilt if there's a chance at getting a shot in), but all this is your problem too. American instability shakes the world.

You can apply the exact same ideology to the idea that Russia hacked the election.

I personally don't believe there was anything going on in that comet ping pong place, I've never said I did. What I do believe is there are people in power who to me appear to be very shady, and have very shady connections.

Granted CBS news reported it for what it is, a conspiracy theory.

MightyMandarin · 23-01-2017 12:11AM

Fleawuss wrote:

Trump, Priebus, Spicer and Conway have buried their administration's credibility the first weekend.

If they had any before this weekend you haven't been paying any attention to their carry-on the past 6 months.

One thing I always laugh about Trump's clowns leaping to support Conway is that she supported Cruz before he lost and also said some pretty nasty things about him before she was hired. She's only their for the fame and fortune. She doesn't even back him in her own mind. She's a propagandist-for-hire.

conditioned games · 23-01-2017 12:11AM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Trump, Priebus, Spicer and Conway have buried their administration's credibility the first weekend. It's wonderful to see the desperate clutching at straws by their stooges here as they realize they're just as exposed. Honestly a few regulars here should close their accounts and slink off to rereg. We could have them back in a few weeks like "I'm not a Trump supporter but...".

The credibility you talk about is in your eyes. They have the platform now to tell the public what is really happening in America, the crime, drugs, property in middle class America, loss of manufacturing jobs, contract and low paid service jobs, massive debt to inflate popped bubbles from 2008 that is not the solution. Now you get to hear the truth so no I won't go away.

Professor Moriarty · 23-01-2017 12:13AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Laughable on peoples fixation..... Nutters thought Barry was African. Nutters think Trumps tax returns will vindicate their Nutty thoughts.

Basically there are three ways of not paying tax. Make a loss, avoid tax or evade tax.

Let's assume that Trump hasn't been making a loss for twenty years (though we know he was set up and bailed out by his father so his track record isn't great).

Let's assume that he didn't evade tax because that is illegal.

Let's assume that he avoided tax using clever accountants to find loopholes.

What do you think of a system that allows extremely wealthy people to pay less tax than a nurse? Do you have any idea why it might matter that the President of the USA should release his tax affairs? Why he should have paid some tax in all that time? Any clue at all?

donvito99 · 23-01-2017 12:15AM

conditioned games wrote: »

Now you get to hear the truth so no I won't go away.

The alternate truth or the actual truth?

MightyMandarin · 23-01-2017 12:15AM

conditioned games wrote:

The credibility you talk about is in your eyes. They have the platform now to tell the public what is really happening in America, the crime, drugs, property in middle class America, loss of manufacturing jobs, contract and low paid service jobs, massive debt to inflate popped bubbles from 2008 that is not the solution. Now you get to hear the truth so no I won't go away.

You do know the unemployment rate is ~4% right? You do know the GOP's budget which passed 2 weeks ago will add $8tn to the debt right?-(even Rand Paul, a Republican, rightly called that out that bs).

Trump hasn't been in office 2 days yet two of his big plans have already been debunked. Keep listening to the bull****.

HellSquirrel · 23-01-2017 12:15AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You can apply the exact same ideology to the idea that Russia hacked the election.

And right off into the tangent to argue about another topic rather than allow any attention to be focussed on Trump and what he's actually doing.

On this tangent, yes, I do believe that the potential of a traditionally hostile foreign power having had an impact on a democratic nation's election is something that would deserve a serious look at for security reasons. I would think this would be a matter of common sense.

What do you think about this administration's blatant lies and whether or not it's a bad sign that they descend to them so rapidly?

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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