Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

robopaddy2 · 21-01-2017 01:37AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/league-format-over-burdens-college-going-players-and-needs-to-change-claims-derek-mcgrath-439985.html

Does have a point but a 10 team division could drag on a bit

This is prob a bit controversial of me but do we really need third level competitions ??. Most of the guys playing in these are intercounty/club players, can the GAA just let the lads enjoy there academic life's ???. I suppose it's the players choice and they seem too love playing in the Fitzgibbon/Siegerson and it gives guys a chance too play with other players from different county's

I think you like a lot of people don't get the Fitzgibbon. To be fair its never really been about the spectators its purely a competition for the players themselves. Only really supported by players friends and families and maybe some students. But it is one of the most prestigious competitions a player can play in. Its not so much about the chance to play with players from other counties, its about testing yourself at the highest level, against the best hurlers in the country. And playing and winning with the best hurlers in the country. In my opinion its only a small step down from senior intercounty level.

cul beag · 21-01-2017 11:49AM

Anyone read the interview on the Examiner today with McGrath? Sounds like he's feeling the pressure from supporters around the county. What does he expect? There's a sensational crop of players within his domain and the all Ireland is what we want and nothing less. Should be interesting to see who gets the job when he leaves this year as we're led to believe.

mountgomery burns · 21-01-2017 12:26PM

cul beag wrote: »

Anyone read the interview on the Examiner today with McGrath? Sounds like he's feeling the pressure from supporters around the county. What does he expect? There's a sensational crop of players within his domain and the all Ireland is what we want and nothing less. Should be interesting to see who gets the job when he leaves this year as we're led to believe.

Not really half as interesting as the inter county season between now and then.

Giveitfong · 21-01-2017 01:59PM

Would anyone on this forum like to hazard an answer to any of the following questions:

Why did Stephen Bennett play in both Munster League games so far (the only established senior player to do so)?

Why was Shane Bennett the only other established senior player to start in one of these games (Conor Gleeson came on as a late sub against Cork)?

Why did Kieran Bennett not play in either of these games when he was named to start in both?

Given how well-stocked we are with forwards in the senior team while our goalkeeping resources are a bit dodgy, would it not make more sense to be trying Billy Nolan out in goal in these games?

Could there be any link between the fact that Roanmore players have figured prominently in these games and the fact that the new selector is from that club?

I am only asking these questions because I am trying (unsuccessfully so far) to detect some sense of a clear development plan in the selections for these games.

Twiceasnice97 · 21-01-2017 02:36PM

Giveitfong wrote: »

Would anyone on this forum like to hazard an answer to any of the following questions:

Why did Stephen Bennett play in both Munster League games so far (the only established senior player to do so)?

Why was Shane Bennett the only other established senior player to start in one of these games (Conor Gleeson came on as a late sub against Cork)?

Why did Kieran Bennett not play in either of these games when he was named to start in both?

Given how well-stocked we are with forwards in the senior team while our goalkeeping resources are a bit dodgy, would it not make more sense to be trying Billy Nolan out in goal in these games?

Could there be any link between the fact that Roanmore players have figured prominently in these games and the fact that the new selector is from that club?

I am only asking these questions because I am trying (unsuccessfully so far) to detect some sense of a clear development plan in the selections for these games.

You are not that bothered by the answers to any of those questions in my view. the tone of them suggests a man with a clear view of what the answers are and there is more than a bit of management bashing involved

TheScoringGoal · 21-01-2017 02:57PM

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

You are not that bothered by the answers to any of those questions in my view. the tone of them suggests a man with a clear view of what the answers are and there is more than a bit of management bashing involved

I'd agree but I think the Stephen Bennett one is an easy answer. He was a prodigious talent (watch the points from distance he scored in the 2013 minor campaign along with his undoubted goal scoring) but injuries have prevented him playing much in recent years. If he is finally injury free it makes perfect sense why he's playing.

Derek McGrath cannot win. No matter if the team win or lose, if he plays the established one or gives others a chance he's in the wrong. In the entire season last year the team under performed twice, against Dublin in the league and Tipp in the munster final.

cul beag · 21-01-2017 03:00PM

Giveitfong wrote: »

Would anyone on this forum like to hazard an answer to any of the following questions:

Why did Stephen Bennett play in both Munster League games so far (the only established senior player to do so)?

Why was Shane Bennett the only other established senior player to start in one of these games (Conor Gleeson came on as a late sub against Cork)?

Why did Kieran Bennett not play in either of these games when he was named to start in both?

Given how well-stocked we are with forwards in the senior team while our goalkeeping resources are a bit dodgy, would it not make more sense to be trying Billy Nolan out in goal in these games?

Could there be any link between the fact that Roanmore players have figured prominently in these games and the fact that the new selector is from that club?

I am only asking these questions because I am trying (unsuccessfully so far) to detect some sense of a clear development plan in the selections for these games.

A blind eye can only be turned for so long to extra curricular activities because when the senior boys start to flex their muscles you know a slap on the wrists is coming down the track!
Going on your thought process we should see a few from Lismore getting a call after next weekend(if they're beaten) if the selectors are using their influence.

Twiceasnice97 · 21-01-2017 03:07PM

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

I'd agree but I think the Stephen Bennett one is an easy answer. He was a prodigious talent (watch the points from distance he scored in the 2013 minor campaign along with his undoubted goal scoring) but injuries have prevented him playing much in recent years. If he is finally injury free it makes perfect sense why he's playing.

Derek McGrath cannot win. No matter if the team win or lose, if he plays the established one or gives others a chance he's in the wrong. In the entire season last year the team under performed twice, against Dublin in the league and Tipp in the munster final.

Stephen Bennett is a very good hurler but he favours his left side a lot which reduces his effectiveness

PTH2009 · 21-01-2017 03:53PM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/derek-mcgrath-interview-we-are-trying-to-change-a-culture-in-waterford-440186.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

culbaire · 21-01-2017 04:03PM

I have no problems with management trying out new players. However I have a major problem with the fact that too many of them are thrown in at the deep end. It is farcical not to start 7 or 8 "established" players in each Waterford Crystal game. We all know that most of the "new" players will not start in the League. Brian Flannery seems to think that there are 40 players good enough to play senior with Waterford. I beg to disagree. At best 8/9 players likely to be chosen by Derek McGrath are good enough to win an All Ireland. There will be gaping holes as usual. There are probably 12 /13 within the county good enough for senior inter county hurling. Only 8/9 of those players will be on the teams likely to be chosen for the championship.

The Waterford team badly needs to be freshened up. Certain players who are not good enough seem to be automatic selections. There will be no All Ireland this year if this nonsense continues. Management needs to swallow its pride and admit it gets things wrong. Loyalty to players who fail to deliver is at the root of Waterford's failure allied to the negative hurling philosophy favoured by Derek McGrath. Negative hurling must go. No more defeatist nonsense either. Starting with the League we must go up to Nowlan Park determined to win. We must aim to win all games. No more of this:"We are not interested in winning the League". We must call failure to win an All Ireland what it really is: FAILURE

mountgomery burns · 21-01-2017 04:18PM

WHat are you on about? They've clearly said they've targeted the league the last two year and were unlucky not to win an unprecedented back to back titles.

How is that not interested in the league?

Stopitwillya · 21-01-2017 04:26PM

Could there be any link between the fact that Roanmore players have figured prominently in these games and the fact that the new selector is from that club?

Some waste of time playing the two Roanmore players the other night as neither good enough and never will be. One of them couldn't get on the county Under 21 panel last year and all of a sudden he is playing Senior. Billy Nolan on the other hand is worth the look. Few others on the panel at present whom they are only only wasting there time by having them on a training panel for January and then dropping them. Same thing happened last year. Expect pretty much the same panel as last year bar maybe Nolan and DJ Foran come the 1st League match in Nowlan Park.

Waternut · 21-01-2017 11:27PM

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

I'd agree but I think the Stephen Bennett one is an easy answer. He was a prodigious talent (watch the points from distance he scored in the 2013 minor campaign along with his undoubted goal scoring) but injuries have prevented him playing much in recent years. If he is finally injury free it makes perfect sense why he's playing.

Derek McGrath cannot win. No matter if the team win or lose, if he plays the established one or gives others a chance he's in the wrong. In the entire season last year the team under performed twice, against Dublin in the league and Tipp in the munster final.

Stephen Bennett is a very good hurler but he favours his left side a lot which reduces his effectiveness

Both Stephen and Shane very much favour striking off the one side. Shane gets himself into trouble a lot that way.

I have no issue trying out new players. If players played well in the club championship they deserve a try out. Its completely up to the player to lay down a marker and keep his place on the panel.

PTH2009 · 22-01-2017 01:40AM

i knw its a bit early for this but could be handy for people booking holidays etc

The following will be the sanarios if we qualify for the NHL Quarter Finals or have to face into a relagation playoff

QFs (1/2 April)

Home draw- (we only have 2 home games in the group stage)- we will be home to the following teams (who played 3 home games in the group stages) Wexford/Limerick or Kerry

Coin Toss- if we are to play either Galway/Offaly or Laois we will toss for home advantage (as these 3 teams only played 2 home games in the group stages)

Relagation playoff (1/2 April)
Home advantage- Kilkenny/Clare or Dublin
Away- Tipperary or Cork

hopefully whatever teams play vs Clare and Kerry for the rest of MHL play well

crottys lake · 22-01-2017 11:31AM

Those are reasonable questions by the very intelligent Giveitfong and deserve serious discussion. My views are that Stephen Bennett ould have been asked by Derek if he wanted to play given that he had such a light season last year. I think he is getting him ready to be our full forward for the League campaign with a view to the Championship. After all he is the one of the best forwards in the entire country and he does seem to moving a lot better this time round. No problems there.

I expect he is using Shane to build up his confidence after a quiet end to the Championship for him last year. Again, this is a good idea if that is the case.

I do not know why Keiran did not start both games as he is very talented and this is the time to try him out.

There is a lot of balderdash spoken about games this time of year. With the exception of the above of course this is the time to try out players. There is no point whatsoever in starting seven or eight of the established seniors in these matches. There is nothing to be gained at all. We all know what they can do. We want them fresh or August and hopefully September not on cold freezing days in January that nobody will remember come Summer.

The Roanmore angle is perfectly natural as all new selectors like to give a few of their own players a chance and in fairness they have showed up well. Nothing wrong there.

The Billy Nolan question is very valid. He is a great talent but this is the time to be giving him match practice as a goalkeeper, no question.

I have been impressed by Shane and Colm Roche plus Ian Kenny and a few more of the lads in the games so far. I hope to see more of them tried today. As for the league I hope we do not kill our Championship hopes as the fresh horse nearly always win the race, remember last year ......

DiscoStew · 22-01-2017 02:22PM

I would imagine with FitzGibbon Cup starting on Tuesday there will be a number of changes to the side from the last 2 matches with players involved in Fitz panels left out.

KevIRL · 22-01-2017 02:52PM

DiscoStew wrote: »

I would imagine with FitzGibbon Cup starting on Tuesday there will be a number of changes to the side from the last 2 matches with players involved in Fitz panels left out.

No fewer than 17 waterford changes from the distributed team sheet apparently

mickmackmcgoo · 22-01-2017 02:52PM

Waterford: O'Regan Chester McNulty C Lyons D Lyons Sutton Keating Fitzgerald Madigan M F O'Neill DJ Foran B Nolan P Hogan J Fagan E Murphy

mickmackmcgoo · 22-01-2017 02:55PM

Apparently they named a panel of 26 which was printed on the team sheets handed out at one o clock and then made 17 changes!! Coughan Connors Moran were all originally to start but not in the 26 now . Ridiculous carry on

KevIRL · 22-01-2017 03:16PM

1-4 to 0-6 latest. Peter Hogan with the goal. Third game in a row where Waterford have goaled.

KevIRL · 22-01-2017 03:27PM

Second Hogan goal. 2-5 to 0-8

KevIRL · 22-01-2017 03:40PM

Clare 2-10 Waterford 2-7 HT

PTH2009 · 22-01-2017 04:19PM

Why is Iggy starting the whole time , do we not have another sub goalkeeper ???

Latest score is 2-14-2-12 to Clare 23 mins gone in the 2H

PTH2009 · 22-01-2017 04:38PM

FT Wat 3-13- Clare 2-19. Billy Nolan with the goal in injury time

At least we're scoring goals. We play Kerry in Tralee on Wednesday so we should put up a big score at that esp as we could have a lot of regulars back with the Fitzgibbon starting on Tuesday

culbaire · 22-01-2017 05:13PM

crottys lake wrote: »

Those are reasonable questions by the very intelligent Giveitfong and deserve serious discussion. My views are that Stephen Bennett ould have been asked by Derek if he wanted to play given that he had such a light season last year. I think he is getting him ready to be our full forward for the League campaign with a view to the Championship. After all he is the one of the best forwards in the entire country and he does seem to moving a lot better this time round. No problems there.

I expect he is using Shane to build up his confidence after a quiet end to the Championship for him last year. Again, this is a good idea if that is the case.

I do not know why Keiran did not start both games as he is very talented and this is the time to try him out.

There is a lot of balderdash spoken about games this time of year. With the exception of the above of course this is the time to try out players. There is no point whatsoever in starting seven or eight of the established seniors in these matches. There is nothing to be gained at all. We all know what they can do. We want them fresh or August and hopefully September not on cold freezing days in January that nobody will remember come Summer.

The Roanmore angle is perfectly natural as all new selectors like to give a few of their own players a chance and in fairness they have showed up well. Nothing wrong there.

The Billy Nolan question is very valid. He is a great talent but this is the time to be giving him match practice as a goalkeeper, no question.

I have been impressed by Shane and Colm Roche plus Ian Kenny and a few more of the lads in the games so far. I hope to see more of them tried today. As for the league I hope we do not kill our Championship hopes as the fresh horse nearly always win the race, remember last year ......

You are great with the snide remarks. You have a monopoly of knowledge on hurling do you?

Starting seven or eight "established players" is "balderdash" is it? Brian Cody must be a silly man to have started some of his regulars last week against Antrim? Today we had what amounted to an East Waterford team and a shambles with the team line out. I suppose that is "balderdash" too is it?
Referring to the regulars you state:

We all know what they can do. We want them fresh or August and hopefully September not on cold freezing days in January that nobody will remember come Summer.

They are all guaranteed their positions are they?

You state:

The Roanmore angle is perfectly natural as all new selectors like to give a few of their own players a chance and in fairness they have showed up well. Nothing wrong there.

Seeking to justify the unjustifiable: That's the mentality that has always left Waterford where it is at Inter County Senior level: Get your own clubmen on the team. Who cares if the county team loses once the local clubman is selected? "Parishpumpery" at its best. The bane of Waterford hurling!

danganabu · 22-01-2017 05:18PM

This is my favourite of all the county threads, ye lads are a howl

culbaire · 22-01-2017 05:57PM

danganabu wrote: »

This is my favourite of all the county threads, ye lads are a howl

Ah yes the Tipperary superiority complex! Love the chutzpah of the Tipp men! Sometimes pride comes before a fall!

mickotallow · 22-01-2017 06:34PM

If I'm right the panel is being cut at the end of January. And if the Munster Senior League was being used to give lads games and see what they're like then why weren't all the lads on the current panel given game time. Especially lads who were given little or no game time last year. If the management feel these lads are good enough for a training panel surely they are good enough to play a MSL game. Case in point is Iggy. He has played in goals for all these games. Should one of the other keepers not have been given a game?
And why would you name a dummy team at this time of the year??

windy shepard henderson · 22-01-2017 06:40PM

culbaire wrote: »

Ah yes the Tipperary superiority complex! Love the chutzpah of the Tipp men! Sometimes pride comes before a fall!

to be fair its only a joke, but from the outside looking in some of the posts on here dose make waterford gaa look very complicated

danganabu · 22-01-2017 06:52PM

culbaire wrote: »

Ah yes the Tipperary superiority complex! Love the chutzpah of the Tipp men! Sometimes pride comes before a fall!

As windy said it was a joke, and I have no idea where or from what you got the sense of a superiority complex from.

I also haven't the foggiest what ''chutzpah'' is so I'll let that one go

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1