Eir rural FTTH thread

Gwynston · 12-01-2017 06:31PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I told him last week to check with Pure Telecom. He could also try Digiweb. As you say if is available to eir it should be available to all operators.

Yeah, I remember you saying that now...

But the cruicial thing is to see if other operators offering in his area show a different status for him as opposed to his neighbours who have had the golden handshake from the Eir rep

Johnboy1951 · 12-01-2017 06:32PM

Gonzo wrote: »

maths was never my strong point!

Rollout here seems to have moved on to another town. I've seen a few open eir vans going around checking splicebox's a few days ago but nothing since.

Now that were almost half way through January, I am a bit surprised not to read any updates from other areas. The lads should be hitting the ground running at this stage with much more widespread work in other areas.

Just because it is not posted on Boards doesn't mean they are not working flat out

It is an annoyance that eir do not communicate publicly about their progress .... or even lack of it should that be the case .... but not surprising.

Shyboy · 12-01-2017 06:39PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I told him last week to check with Pure Telecom. He could also try Digiweb. As you say if is available to eir it should be available to all operators.

Sorry, forgot to say...I did contact Pure Telecom last week and they came back to me to say that my line wasn't passing either...

Gwynston · 12-01-2017 06:44PM

Shyboy wrote: »

Sorry, forgot to say...I did contact Pure Telecom last week and they came back to me to say that my line wasn't passing either...

Would be interesting to hear what your supposedly passing neighbours are told if they ask Pure Telecom....

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-01-2017 06:50PM

Shyboy wrote: »

Sorry, forgot to say...I did contact Pure Telecom last week and they came back to me to say that my line wasn't passing either...

It may be the case that the section of cable you are on is not ready to go live. I don't know how close the neighbours that are passing are to you. In other areas the number of premises going live on the announced date is usually quite less than the number planned. So in your case 830 premises are planned but the actual number going live may be far less than that.

I'm concerned though that eir retail may be being favoured by Openeir enabling them to hoover up customers before other operators get the chance to compete. This should be reported to Comreg.

Shyboy · 12-01-2017 07:16PM

Gwynston wrote: »

Would be interesting to hear what your supposedly passing neighbours are told if they ask Pure Telecom....

An online line checker has appeared on the Pure Telecom website (I didn't see it before...) and I entered my number...sure enough, it says only DSL available but I entered a neighbour's number, who is passing for FTTH on Eir's checker and it says their FTTH is available to them...

He is literally across the road from me...:(

rob808 · 12-01-2017 07:21PM

Shyboy wrote: »

An online line checker has appeared on the Pure Telecom website (I didn't see it before...) and I entered my number...sure enough, it says only DSL available but I entered a neighbour's number, who is passing for FTTH on Eir's checker and it says their FTTH is available to them...

He is literally across the road from me...:(

They must be working with outdated PC at Eir or there just slow at updating the retail system at Eir.

pegasus1 · 12-01-2017 08:29PM

What is defined as passing the line checker regarding fibre, is it a case of the fibre being outside the house, but not connected yet back at the exchange?
Or is it a fact that it hasn't passed due to the two fibre tails destined to a house have failed the minimum capacity speed wise test? for fibre?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-01-2017 08:37PM

Shyboy wrote: »

An online line checker has appeared on the Pure Telecom website (I didn't see it before...) and I entered my number...sure enough, it says only DSL available but I entered a neighbour's number, who is passing for FTTH on Eir's checker and it says their FTTH is available to them...

He is literally across the road from me...:(

It seems to me there are two options for your particular scenario:

1) You are on a separate split from your neighbour that is not ready to go live yet therefore you cannot order.

2) Your premises is failing because of a database mistake.

I'm not sure what you are meant to do seeing as Openeir will most likely not speak to you directly.

rob808 · 12-01-2017 08:49PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

It seems to me there are two options for your particular scenario:

1) You are on a separate split from your neighbour that is not ready to go live yet therefore you cannot order.

2) Your premises is failing because of a database mistake.

I'm not sure what you are meant to do seeing as Openeir will most likely not speak to you directly.

It make you wonder what it be like with NBP especially if Eir wins part of the NBP.

Shyboy · 12-01-2017 08:56PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

It seems to me there are two options for your particular scenario:

1) You are on a separate split from your neighbour that is not ready to go live yet therefore you cannot order.

2) Your premises is failing because of a database mistake.

I'm not sure what you are meant to do seeing as Openeir will most likely not speak to you directly.

My only option at the moment is to keep an eye out for a neighbour having an installation done and maybe having a chat with the crew to see if they can shed any light on it...

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-01-2017 08:57PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just because it is not posted on Boards doesn't mean they are not working flat out

It is an annoyance that eir do not communicate publicly about their progress .... or even lack of it should that be the case .... but not surprising.

It is surprising to me the lack of fanfare they are giving to their own rollout. For example during the FTTC project there was an update every Wednesday on their Techbytes page with live cabinets.

Now with what should be their crowning glory, a project that is somewhat unique worldwide, certainly more so than a VDSL rollout, what do we get? Two updates in four months. They have not even listed all the live areas on their Techbytes page. Missing from it are:

Ballyboden
Ballyclough
Belcarra
Carlingford
Courtown Harbour
Rahan

There were areas due to go live on the 4th and 11th of January. Again no mention of them.

The map updates are a joke with text being changed willy nilly depending on who is updating it. The promised FTTH map seems forgotten about.

https://twitter.com/openeir/status/818848834667298817

Previous tweets have at least mentioned a map in development.

It seems to me that the publicity side of the organisation is not that pushed about promoting rural FTTH.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-01-2017 08:58PM

Shyboy wrote: »

My only option at the moment is to keep an eye out for a neighbour having an installation done and maybe having a chat with the crew to see if they can shed any light on it...

Seems to be your best bet alright.

digiman · 12-01-2017 09:05PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

It is surprising to me the lack of fanfare they are giving to their own rollout. For example during the FTTC project there was an update every Wednesday on their Techbytes page with live cabinets.

Now with what should be their crowning glory, a project that is somewhat unique worldwide, certainly more so than a VDSL rollout, what do we get? Two updates in four months. They have not even listed all the live areas on their Techbytes page. Missing from it are:
Ballyboden

Ballyclough

Belcarra

Carlingford

Courtown Harbour

Rahan

There were areas due to go live on the 4th and 11th of January. Again no mention of them.

The map updates are a joke with text being changed willy nilly depending on who is updating it. The promised FTTH map seems forgotten about.

https://twitter.com/openeir/status/818848834667298817

Previous tweets have at least mentioned a map in development.

It seems to me that the publicity side of the organisation is not that pushed about promoting rural FTTH.

Was speaking with a KN engineer very recently who was saying that a huge amount of installs are failing in the urban rollout and he reckons that the rural rollout could be even worse due to the very long drops to peoples homes. He was saying something like 1 in every 4 were failing which seems very very high. One of the main problems he was saying that so many of the DPs in manholes were water damaged and when they would be reading the RX level at the DP that they were to far out of spec to proceed with the install.

So for this reason they may not be pushing the rollout and might also explain why so few other retailers have actually signed up to provide the service as it's a horrible customer experience.

With rural rollout, lets say there is an underground duct up someones driveway and existing telephone line goes in through there but when they go to rod the fibre its blocked. Who is responsible to unblock that duct and who takes the hit on cost? It will be a huge unknown and so many homes will be different.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-01-2017 09:15PM

digiman wrote: »

Was speaking with a KN engineer very recently who was saying that a huge amount of installs are failing in the urban rollout and he reckons that the rural rollout could be even worse due to the very long drops to peoples homes. He was saying something like 1 in every 4 were failing which seems very very high. One of the main problems he was saying that so many of the DPs in manholes were water damaged and when they would be reading the RX level at the DP that they were to far out of spec to proceed with the install.

So for this reason they may not be pushing the rollout and might also explain why so few other retailers have actually signed up to provide the service as it's a horrible customer experience.

With rural rollout, lets say there is an underground duct up someones driveway and existing telephone line goes in through there but when they go to rod the fibre its blocked. Who is responsible to unblock that duct and who takes the hit on cost? It will be a huge unknown and so many homes will be different.

That is interesting, thanks. In the specific example you gave I suppose if a homeowner was desperate enough for the service they could opt for an overhead drop. I don't know who would bear the cost of clearing blockages though.

Johnboy1951 · 12-01-2017 09:15PM

digiman wrote: »

Was speaking with a KN engineer very recently who was saying that a huge amount of installs are failing in the urban rollout and he reckons that the rural rollout could be even worse due to the very long drops to peoples homes. He was saying something like 1 in every 4 were failing which seems very very high.

He must have been speaking of copper when referring to length of cable having an effect.

One of the main problems he was saying that so many of the DPs in manholes were water damaged and when they would be reading the RX level at the DP that they were to far out of spec to proceed with the install.

I understood that being water logged is not a concern with fibre.

So for this reason they may not be pushing the rollout and might also explain why so few other retailers have actually signed up to provide the service as it's a horrible customer experience.

All that appears to refer to FTTC with copper to the premises.

With rural rollout, lets say there is an underground duct up someones driveway and existing telephone line goes in through there but when they go to rod the fibre its blocked. Who is responsible to unblock that duct and who takes the hit on cost? It will be a huge unknown and so many homes will be different.

If the existing copper cable is being withdrawn then it can surely be used to draw in the copper cable or a pull-string.
It should not be a problem in most cases.
In the event of a complete duct collapse the fibre can be taken in overhead .... else the customer provides a suitable duct across their site.

Houses built in the last couple of decades should all have a specific duct available.

digiman · 12-01-2017 09:24PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

He must have been speaking of copper when referring to length of cable having an effect.
100% talking about fibre, issue is the additional cost to install it to homes where the drop cable is really long

I understood that being water logged is not a concern with fibre.

It's a problem if water has got in around the connectors, will attenuate the laser and be outside of the RX sensitivity of the ONT by the time it connects to it.

All that appears to refer to FTTC with copper to the premises.

As said, 100% FTTH

If the existing copper cable is being withdrawn then it can surely be used to draw in the copper cable or a pull-string.
It should not be a problem in most cases.
In the event of a complete duct collapse the fibre can be taken in overhead .... else the customer provides a suitable duct across their site.

Time will tell, underground ducts will be a pain as you will never know whats down there. You would need to be fairly certain that the fibre cable will go all the way through before you would use the copper cable to pull it though. Last thing you would want is a user who has no connection at all!! Apparently mice etc in ducts is a major problem in some cases with blocking them and chewing through pull ropes etc

Houses built in the last couple of decades should all have a specific duct available.
At least with overhead you can see if there is a problem when you get there, rotten poles etc!!

.

plodder · 12-01-2017 10:35PM

I don't get that issue either about the 1 in 4 failures, with regard to rural areas at least. If water is a problem then it's surely a bigger problem for existing copper cable. Long customer drops is hardly that big a deal either. I'd imagine also that blockages on customer property will have to be fixed at the customer's expense. Or at least, it's not a concern for Openeir. It'll be between the retailer and the customer.

Johnboy1951 · 12-01-2017 10:53PM

Originally Posted by digiman
Was speaking with a KN engineer very recently who was saying that a huge amount of installs are failing in the urban rollout and he reckons that the rural rollout could be even worse due to the very long drops to peoples homes. He was saying something like 1 in every 4 were failing which seems very very high.

He must have been speaking of copper when referring to length of cable having an effect.

100% talking about fibre, issue is the additional cost to install it to homes where the drop cable is really long

So it is not an affect on the connection but the cost.
Fibre is cheaper than copper and no doubt all that has been taken into account.

I understood that being water logged is not a concern with fibre.

It's a problem if water has got in around the connectors, will attenuate the laser and be outside of the RX sensitivity of the ONT by the time it connects to it.

No more of a problem than with copper.
That seems to imply there might be a problem with connectors .... I very much doubt that!

All that appears to refer to FTTC with copper to the premises.

As said, 100% FTTH

If the existing copper cable is being withdrawn then it can surely be used to draw in the copper cable or a pull-string.
It should not be a problem in most cases.
In the event of a complete duct collapse the fibre can be taken in overhead .... else the customer provides a suitable duct across their site.

Time will tell, underground ducts will be a pain as you will never know whats down there. You would need to be fairly certain that the fibre cable will go all the way through before you would use the copper cable to pull it though. Last thing you would want is a user who has no connection at all!! Apparently mice etc in ducts is a major problem in some cases with blocking them and chewing through pull ropes etc

It might happen in a very small percentage of cases.
So small not to have any real affect on the roll out, especially as an overhead option is still there if the customer does not wish to provide a suitable duct.

Houses built in the last couple of decades should all have a specific duct available.

At least with overhead you can see if there is a problem when you get there, rotten poles etc!!

Ducts are preferred.

damienirel · 12-01-2017 11:39PM

I think it's more worrying the amount of exchanges that haven't gone live for FTTH - why is there such slow movement on that? Before we ever get on to who can actually become a FTTH customer. Anyways all of this discussion of rural versus urban is all speculation until they have some rural installs done how can they know how difficult they are? Also if you don't have a duct to your premises or if it's blocked it's your own problem - that was the case when eir installed copper many years ago and I'm not aware of anything changing around that since then. I'd assume they move onto the neighbour who has a free duct an install it for them.

ccazza · 13-01-2017 12:00AM

Strandhill in Sligo was meant to go live yesterday. It must have done as I had a preorder and have an installation date for Friday20th. Hopefully it goes ahead smoothly. I didn't get a text from them but rang up the installation team who gave me the date of the 20th.

rob808 · 13-01-2017 12:20AM

damienirel wrote: »

I think it's more worrying the amount of exchanges that haven't gone live for FTTH - why is there such slow movement on that? Before we ever get on to who can actually become a FTTH customer. Anyways all of this discussion of rural versus urban is all speculation until they have some rural installs done how can they know how difficult they are? Also if you don't have a duct to your premises or if it's blocked it's your own problem - that was the case when eir installed copper many years ago and I'm not aware of anything changing around that since then. I'd assume they move onto the neighbour who has a free duct an install it for them.

They would send someone out to fix the block duct they hardly leave you hanging after bring the Fibre alway up your road to your house it be waste of money.They might skip your install until it fixed,but they would want to connect you to make money on there investment.

damienirel · 13-01-2017 12:35AM

rob808 wrote: »

They would send someone out to fix the block duct they hardly leave you hanging after bring the Fibre alway up your road to your house it be waste of money.They might skip your install until it fixed,but they would want to connect you to make money on there investment.

Only within reason, if your 500m in off the road with no duct then they should move on to the more trouble free installs first, until such time you get your ducting installed or repaired - if it's on private property it's your responsibility. I'd hate to think they would waste time on stuff like that. When other potential customers practically have the red carpet out for them.

kelledy · 13-01-2017 12:53AM

when an exchange is fibre enabled (step1) , fibre workpoints are stratigically placed around villages and towns etc .
From this work point , fibre is provided to a cabinet FTTC or can be ran straight into a house by duct or drop wire , usually in new builds the tech is positioned under the stairs .

Careful not to mix FTTC with FTTH which are two totally different work loads , FFTH can often require a lot of work depending on your house condition , FTTC is simple swap over of jumper wire from old - new cabinet for your house .

Most of the fibre cabinets only have a limited capacity and its first come first serve ,although some models can be expanded .

Just because a local cabinet is live is no guarantee there will be space

Also FYI if your neighbour can get VDSL but you are stuck on DSL internet im afraid the most likely outcome is you are direct fed to the exchange , bypassing the cabinet , which unfortunately is bad news

I am an engineer involved in the fibre rollout in U.K. So have some knowledge , can only presume that EIRs network is the same as BTs just a poorer version lol

kelledy · 13-01-2017 01:15AM

Also just to add , distance does not affect fibre cable , only copper cable . Fibre travels at the speed of light
A quick google confirms that the first block of FFTH installations in Ireland are only being completed this year , so I would imagine most of you would be expecting to get FTTC at best for the time being .

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-01-2017 01:21AM

kelledy wrote: »

Also just to add , distance does not affect fibre cable , only copper cable . Fibre travels at the speed of light
A quick google confirms that the first block of FFTH installations in Ireland are only being completed this year , so I would imagine most of you would be expecting to get FTTC at best for the time being .

Jesus, you come into the thread assuming we are all idiots. Do your research before posting. We are aware of the difference between FTTC and FTTH. People have posted speedtests from their FTTH connection. Do you think we have made 3000 posts mixing up two technologies?

rob808 · 13-01-2017 01:22AM

kelledy wrote: »

when an exchange is fibre enabled (step1) , fibre workpoints are stratigically placed around villages and towns etc .
From this work point , fibre is provided to a cabinet FTTC or can be ran straight into a house by duct or drop wire , usually in new builds the tech is positioned under the stairs .

Careful not to mix FTTC with FTTH which are two totally different work loads , FFTH can often require a lot of work depending on your house condition , FTTC is simple swap over of jumper wire from old - new cabinet for your house .

Most of the fibre cabinets only have a limited capacity and its first come first serve ,although some models can be expanded .

Just because a local cabinet is live is no guarantee there will be space

Also FYI if your neighbour can get VDSL but you are stuck on DSL internet im afraid the most likely outcome is you are direct fed to the exchange , bypassing the cabinet , which unfortunately is bad news

I am an engineer involved in the fibre rollout in U.K. So have some knowledge , can only presume that EIRs network is the same as BTs just a poorer version lol

Eir doing the FTTH through the exchange for rural rollout and through FTTC for the urban rollout.They can add extra capacity if need I don't-think it fair comparing Eir to BT in uk who just doing the poor man version of FTTH which is G.fast.

Gonzo · 13-01-2017 01:54AM

kelledy wrote: »

I am an engineer involved in the fibre rollout in U.K. So have some knowledge , can only presume that EIRs network is the same as BTs just a poorer version lol

we all know the difference between FTTC and FTTH. Eir's network used to be a poorer version of BT's in the 1990's and early 2000's but not anymore.

Almost all towns and villages in Ireland have FTTC cabs dotted around them and that rollout is largely finished since the end of last summer. Now Eir are working on bringing FTTH with speeds of up to 1000/100 to an extensive area of rural communities all across the country. no g.fast. It would be like as if BT started to do it B4RN style covering over 1/3rd of the UK's rural communities with pure fibre. Eir's job is much tougher tho because Ireland is a far, far more rural country than most of the UK.

kelledy · 13-01-2017 08:14AM

No I read through some of the posts and people are defo getting mixed up so I just was helping that's all .

kelledy · 13-01-2017 08:17AM

Gonzo wrote: »

kelledy wrote: »

I am an engineer involved in the fibre rollout in U.K. So have some knowledge , can only presume that EIRs network is the same as BTs just a poorer version lol

we all know the difference between FTTC and FTTH. Eir's network used to be a poorer version of BT's in the 1990's and early 2000's but not anymore.

Almost all towns and villages in Ireland have FTTC cabs dotted around them and that rollout is largely finished since the end of last summer. Now Eir are working on bringing FTTH with speeds of up to 1000/100 to an extensive area of rural communities all across the country. no g.fast. It would be like as if BT started to do it B4RN style covering over 1/3rd of the UK's rural communities with pure fibre. Eir's job is much tougher tho because Ireland is a far, far more rural country than most of the UK.

I do not envy eirs job that is for sure ,

Eir rural FTTH thread

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