Irish Rail & Building Beside Lines

Jamie2k9 · 09-01-2017 12:34am #1

This is something that really annoys me and is it time that legislation was introduced to restrict building next to railways (i.e. the field next to tracks).

In major cities and towns such as the DART line it's not a problem and un avoidable however along intercity routes it's about time planning restrictions were put in place.

On the outskirts of Nass, Kildare and Newbridge in recent months new housing estates have gone up right next to the line. They are not central stations by any means so I really don't see how this should be allowed. Just compare them to Carlow/Portlaoise etc where they run into the middle of the town.

The problem this will create are no expansion in future without CPU's and increased line closures because residents will lobby IE and any sort of political pressure and IE will give in.

I get the impression that IE don't really mind what's happening.

It could be just me or do people who live in such houses know what they are letting themselves in for?

stop · 09-01-2017 9:44pm

I'd just be happy if we saw construction on both sides of the line..

Bray Head · 10-01-2017 9:08pm

A 5-metre corridor either side of every railway line in the country is an absolutely trivial amount of land.

You would think it should be automatically preserved for future growth, no matter how far into the future.

I've seen four-tracking under way in Belgium on railways put down in the late 19th century. Clearly sensible planning in the interim.

McAlban · 11-01-2017 12:39pm

We couldn't even preserve land from Lifted Lines for future preservation. (Look at Dunboyne to Navan). The Track was barely closed when the first encroachment, levelling and building took place.

NiallBoo · 11-01-2017 3:13pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

In major cities and towns such as the DART line it's not a problem

I would say this is where it's the biggest problem.

Lack of space is by far the biggest stumbling block in quad-tracking the DART and removing level-crossings.

In general you're absolutely right. There's no future planning at all. I wonder if these steps haven't been taken because for so long rail travel was (is?) just thought of as a hangover from the past and something that'll eventually be done away with as cars continue to take over.

kc56 · 11-01-2017 7:38pm

Back in the '80s when the M50 was being planned, someone had the foresight to make the M50 bridge over the Dubin-Cork railway wide enough, just about, for 4-tracks. Image the disruption if they had to demolish and re-build that bridge when the 4-tracking was done 30 years later.

NiallBoo · 11-01-2017 8:10pm

kc56 wrote: »

Back in the '80s when the M50 was being planned, someone had the foresight to make the M50 bridge over the Dubin-Cork railway wide enough, just about, for 4-tracks. Image the disruption if they had to demolish and re-build that bridge when the 4-tracking was done 30 years later.

Aye, when I said no forward planning above it would have been better to say "very little". N road/motorway bridges do seem to have some in mind.

Jamie2k9 · 11-01-2017 9:15pm

NiallBoo wrote: »

I would say this is where it's the biggest problem.

Lack of space is by far the biggest stumbling block in quad-tracking the DART and removing level-crossings.

In general you're absolutely right. There's no future planning at all. I wonder if these steps haven't been taken because for so long rail travel was (is?) just thought of as a hangover from the past and something that'll eventually be done away with as cars continue to take over.

I agree but it's to late now, the double of capacity between Hazelhatch will happen within next 15-30 years and unless something is done soon it will be to late.

kc56 · 11-01-2017 10:39pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I agree but it's to late now, the double of capacity between Hazelhatch will happen within next 15-30 years and unless something is done soon it will be to late.

Between Hazelhatch and ?

BonnieSituation · 11-01-2017 11:18pm

kc56 wrote: »

Between Hazelhatch and ?

With DU We could say Drogheda couldn't we...

Jamie2k9 · 11-01-2017 11:42pm

kc56 wrote: »

Between Hazelhatch and ?

At least Newbridge or Kildare. It's just inevitable.

Combined with Gov going to announce strategy for Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway and possibly a midlands town to become a city and build up populations there over the next 15 years.

kc56 · 12-01-2017 12:52pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

At least Newbridge or Kildare. It's just inevitable.

Combined with Gov going to announce strategy for Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway and possibly a midlands town to become a city and build up populations there over the next 15 years.

If they got as far as Sallins, that would make a difference; going beyond Sallins could be very problematic starting with ploughing through Sallins where there very little room for a wider bridge. Need much more is 4 or at least 3 tracking at the Dublin end. Delays at Parkwest where the up lines merge are very frequent. Extra tracks wouldn't solve all the issues as trains needs to cross paths - e.g to/from PPT or Heuston 6,7.8.

Jamie2k9 · 12-01-2017 3:29pm

kc56 wrote: »

If they got as far as Sallins, that would make a difference; going beyond Sallins could be very problematic starting with ploughing through Sallins where there very little room for a wider bridge. Need much more is 4 or at least 3 tracking at the Dublin end. Delays at Parkwest where the up lines merge are very frequent. Extra tracks wouldn't solve all the issues as trains needs to cross paths - e.g to/from PPT or Heuston 6,7.8.

Forgot about that bridge but you could easily adjust Sallins layout and even if lines did require 4 to become 2 and back to 4 after the bridge it wouldn't be a problem.

Park West has some issues however I don't think extending 4 lines by a mile or two would solve them overly well. Heuston would need major layout changes and for example that unused blue shed be removed.

Any nothing will happen anytime soon.

road_high · 13-01-2017 1:25am

Been a while since I was on it, but isn't there room on the Carlow/Kilkenny/Waterford line for 2 tracks as far as Carlow? Maybe there was 2 in the past and they pulled them?
Can't see it happening anytime soon or anything but would hardly cost the earth if the room is there.

BonnieSituation · 13-01-2017 1:28am

road_high wrote: »

Been a while since I was on it, but isn't there room on the Carlow/Kilkenny/Waterford line for 2 tracks as far as Carlow? Maybe there was 2 in the past and they pulled them?
Can't see it happening anytime soon or anything but would hardly cost the earth if the room is there.

They'll find a way for it to cost the earth and of course use that as justification or not bothering.

road_high · 13-01-2017 1:31am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They'll find a way for it to cost the earth and of course use that as justification or not bothering.

I doubt they'd bother, IR never showed much interest in this line in any case. No doubt the "passenger numbers don't justify" etc
Best we can hope for increased capacity nearer Dublin freeing thing up a bit.

Jamie2k9 · 13-01-2017 2:19am

road_high wrote: »

Been a while since I was on it, but isn't there room on the Carlow/Kilkenny/Waterford line for 2 tracks as far as Carlow? Maybe there was 2 in the past and they pulled them?
Can't see it happening anytime soon or anything but would hardly cost the earth if the room is there.

There is room more less for 2 tracks as far as Thomastown, after that and it would cost a lot. In some rare forward planning the M9 bridges, KK ring road and underpass in Carlow were all built so double tracking is possible. Old bridges all build with 2 tracks as well.

They'll find a way for it to cost the earth and of course use that as justification or not bothering.

As a regular users I would love it doubled however I couldn't make the case for spending money doing it. If anything it's the 15 miles or so gaps for passing loops south of Muine Bheag and two services meeting in Kilkenny that cause the most problems.

Athlone-Portarlington needs it a lot more.

candor · 21-02-2018 7:27pm

The tracking in and out of Dublin needs doubling to 4 for sure, the whole system is creaking at the moment (I commute on the northern line) and with the planned dart expansion along with other trains I can foresee more problems.

As has been mentioned, a little planning would have gone a long way to keep this as an option going forward.

Irish Rail & Building Beside Lines

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