Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 09:49PM

Maryishere is a great forum member, I think her, myself, Lordsutch and Frattonfred keep the forum alive, otherwise everyone else would agree with each other.

Mouseslayer17 · 05-01-2017 09:50PM

If people wanna sign up for the English army let the off,

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 09:51PM

Didas wrote: »

Your second paragraph answers your question.

Explain it to me?
Are this new wave of recruits any different to those who were joining when the BA were actually shooting civilians including women and children dead in Ireland?

Do you criticise those men who joined?

cameramonkey · 05-01-2017 09:51PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

What, so we're not allowed to take the piss out of ourselves as a nation now? It's a shame that some people's sense of Irish identity is so fragile that it can be shaken by somebody insinuating that we can be a bit stupid and backwards sometimes.

I never said we cannot criticize ourselves, it is self evident that everyday we see self criticism however when you take on a a racist stereotype and use it on yourself then I see this as a bit sad.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 09:52PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Look up racism in the dictionary, see what it says.

Another failing of the Irish hardcore Republican. 'Irish' is NOT A RACE. There is no Irish race. Next you will tell me the Irish famine was a genocide on the Irish race...

eeguy · 05-01-2017 09:52PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

I would say that one of the great things about Ireland getting its political independence from the UK was the fact that Irish people en mass no longer had to fight and die in the UK's many wars since 1922. This has saved countless Irish families from great tragedy.

The Irish never HAD to fight in any of Britains wars.
The Irish joined because they wanted to, or felt they had a personal duty to.

Conscription was passed in 1918, but never enforced.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 09:52PM

eeguy wrote: »

I live in Dublin and heard it a few times.
Basically it means a backward way of thinking.
ie "it's a bit Irish that people still grumble into their pints about how the black and tans ruined the country".

But they did ruin the country, and anyone who joins the armed forces in our neighbouring country in 2017 should stay there and be banned from every working in our public services or getting any Irish grants or welfare again.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 09:54PM

maryishere wrote: »

But they did ruin the country, and anyone who joins the armed forces in our neighbouring country in 2017 should stay there and be banned from every working in our public services or getting any Irish grants or welfare again.

As they would say in Westminster: 'Hear, hear!" :pac:

eeguy · 05-01-2017 09:56PM

maryishere wrote: »

But they did ruin the country, and anyone who joins the armed forces in our neighbouring country in 2017 should stay there and be banned from every working in our public services or getting any Irish grants or welfare again.

Did they?
Some people here have great memories for the Troubles and the Rising, and not so good memories for the War of Independence and decades of recession following it.

Seems a bit like "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
Maybe after they were done building roads and sewers they should have taught some of you how to build a bridge...

maryishere · 05-01-2017 09:56PM

Falthyron wrote: »

As they would say in Westminster: 'Hear, hear!" :pac:

As they say here in Dublin "Jasus, I was being sarcastic"

MayoSalmon · 05-01-2017 10:00PM

I do find it strange that any Irish lad or lady would join a foreign army. Do they have to swear alliegence to the Queen or how does it work?

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 10:01PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

I never said we cannot criticize ourselves, it is self evident that everyday we see self criticism however when you take on a a racist stereotype and use it on yourself then I see this as a bit sad.

Irish people aren't a race. If anything, it is an ethnic or national stereotype. If you choose to see if as an offensive one, then that's up to you. I'm familiar with it and don't see it as being offensive. Also, there is a huge difference between criticising something and taking the piss out of something.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:02PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Thing about the UK & Ireland is that we're inherently connected & linked together, entertwined physically, geographically, historically & culturally in so many ways. So why not consider joining the much bigger, vastly more powerful & better equiped armed forces from these islands? Yes join the Irish army by all accounts and go on peace keeping duty, but joining the BA (Irish Guards) would be a much bigger, bolder and more aggressive step to take in career soldering.... if that's what you wanted.

we're inherently connected & linked together, entertwined physically, geographically, historically & culturally in so many ways...........this was achieved by ................by force

cameramonkey · 05-01-2017 10:03PM

eeguy wrote: »

The Irish never HAD to fight in any of Britains wars.
The Irish joined because they wanted to, or felt they had a personal duty to.

Conscription was passed in 1918, but never enforced.

Many Irish had no choice, they were poor and wanted the money, they saw it as a way out of poverty. They were also in a highly militarized country and I'm sure there was a high level of propaganda that was used on the uneducated and educated alike. I have read that in many cases landlords often expected their tenants and workers to enlist. If you look at the % of Irish people now in the UK forces and compare it to the 30% to 40% that once graced some British campaigns then I think it is reasonable to assume that the war of independence and subsequent political agreements meant that Irish people didn't feel forced to join up. I think that this has saved countless Irish people lives and I would see this as a positive development.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 10:06PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Many Irish had no choice, they were poor and wanted the money, they saw it as a way out of poverty. They were also in a highly militarized country and I'm sure there was a high level of propaganda that was used on the uneducated and educated alike. I have read that in many cases landlords often expected their tenants and workers to enlist. If you look at the % of Irish people now in the UK forces and compare it to the 30% to 40% that once graced some British campaigns then I think it is reasonable to assume that the war of independence and subsequent political agreements meant that Irish people didn't feel forced to join up. I think that this has saved countless Irish people lives and I would see this as a positive development.

It has nothing to do with the anti-British rhetoric as demonstrated by this thread, right? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fear attached to pursing such a career when faced with abuse by being called 'scum', 'traitor' etc.? Yeah, you are probably right. Nothing to do with it, whatsoever.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2017 10:08PM

I know guys who have joined the BA.
I know guys who left the Irish Defence Forces (PDF) and joined the BA.
I know guys who left the BA and joined the PDF.
I know guys in this forum who have served in the BA.

All good guys, all did well. I've no problem with it but It's not for me.

I was born in Ireland, I'm Irish. I serve the island of Ireland, it's Government and most importantly of all, it's people.

We dont "go to war". The likelyhood of me being needed to soldier in Ireland is very low. The closest I get to "do what I'm trained to do" is on overseas deployments in peace keeping / peace enforcement roles.

It's not about getting a "chance to kill people". I dont know anyone who has joined for that reason. It's about trying to make a positive difference to peoples lives amidst a complex, varied and volotile environment. Holding a weapon whilst doing that is ironic.

The PDF is restricted due to our financing, capabilities, "neutrality" and our percieved on island need.

The BA offeres a chance to "do what you are trained to do". Thats not what the PDF can offer. I dont blame guys joining the BA.

I just couldnt do it myself.

Professor Moriarty · 05-01-2017 10:12PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

Irish people aren't a race. If anything, it is an ethnic or national stereotype. If you choose to see if as an offensive one, then that's up to you. I'm familiar with it and don't see it as being offensive. Also, there is a huge difference between criticising something and taking the piss out of something.

It implies stupidity. Where do you think 'Taking the Mick' came from? Ever been in a room full of English people as an Irish joke is being told? Ever been screamed at because of your accent? Ever been threatened simply because of where you come from? I have.

It is racism. You may not have experienced racism, and I hope you never have, but if you had you would know that it isn't funny, it does matter and it shouldn't remain unchallenged.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 10:14PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Many Irish had no choice, they were poor and wanted the money, they saw it as a way out of poverty. They were also in a highly militarized country

You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces, that Ireland was "a highly militarized country"? I think our army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks, our navy went home for dinner each day and our air force...

cameramonkey wrote: »

and I'm sure there was a high level of propaganda that was used on the uneducated and educated alike.

The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.

MayoSalmon · 05-01-2017 10:14PM

Professor Moriarty wrote:

It is racism. You may not have experienced racism, and I hope you never have, but if you had you would know that it isn't funny, it does matter and it shouldn't remain unchallenged.

No it's not, Irish is not race.

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 10:14PM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I know guys who have joined the BA.
I know guys who left the Irish Defence Forces (PDF) and joined the BA.
I know guys who left the BA and joined the PDF.
I know guys in this forum who have served in the BA.

All good guys, all did well. I've no problem with it but It's not for me.

I was born in Ireland, I'm Irish. I serve the island of Ireland, it's Government and most importantly of all, it's people.

We dont "go to war". The likelyhood of me being needed to soldier in Ireland is very low. The closest I get to "do what I'm trained to do" is on overseas deployments in peace keeping / peace enforcement roles.

It's not about getting a "chance to kill people". I dont know anyone who has joined for that reason. It's about trying to make a positive difference to peoples lives amidst a complex, varied and volotile environment. Holding a weapon whilst doing that is ironic.

The PDF is restricted due to our financing, capabilities, "neutrality" and our percieved on island need.

The BA offeres a chance to "do what you are trained to do". Thats not what the PDF can offer. I dont blame guys joining the BA.

I just couldnt do it myself.

If you join an army controlled by a government that many see as warmongers (they have been involved in a huge proportion of the major wars and conflicts on this planet) then you know what you are signing up for.
Don't train for things you don't want to do, would be my advice. It isn't an excuse to say, 'I'm not getting to do what I trained to do'.

05-01-2017 10:16PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Maryishere is a great forum member, I think her, myself, Lordsutch and Frattonfred keep the forum alive, otherwise everyone else would agree with each other.

Mary is the most irish person on this forum alright

cameramonkey · 05-01-2017 10:16PM

maryishere wrote: »

You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces, that Ireland was "a highly militarized country"? I think our army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks, our navy went home for dinner each day and our air force...

The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.

Are you English?

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:18PM

Didas wrote: »

All those Old IRA members and founding civil servants who fought in the British Army during WW1 were a real danger to the state alright

Oh boy, you walked right into an ambush and you just do not know it yet.

Ireland was not a sovereign Independent Nation in 1914. The Irish Representatives encouraged Irish people to join the war, to join British Regiments . It was seen in Ireland's interest to have men fight in British uniform to ensure Home Rule. Obviously that needs to be spelled out for some people. Not the same , post Independence.

In fact, the Irish men who fought in WW1 became very much a real danger to THE STATE and to the Crown, our Crown!!! You do realise that Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The King England was our King.

Didn't the likes of Tom Barry and many more have military training from the Brits?.............. Rather odd. Swear loyality and allegiance to the Crown, risking your life and risk of sickness after the trenches and then using your unique skills in trying to hunt down lads who you might have shared a trench with over in France or the Middle East (Black and Tans) and seeking to remove your King from your country called Ireland .

So, you have undermined your argument spectacularly . Congratulations! Best you think about things , next time.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2017 10:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you join an army controlled by a government that many see as warmongers (they have been involved in a huge proportion of the major wars and conflicts on this planet) then you know what you are signing up for.
Don't train for things you don't want to do, would be my advice. It isn't an excuse to say, 'I'm not getting to do what I trained to do'.

What?

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 10:21PM

Nationalism in all its forms has a lot to answer for. Quite possibly, one of the worst ideologies to have been dreamed up. The need to have an 'other' in order to identify yourself is a testament to human ignorance. And I use the term 'human' because thats what we are: human. Not Irish, not British, not European, not Brazilian, not South African. Human.

Time to check out of this thread. Those who want to demonise everything British will not change their minds. Stubborn, myopic, and unable to move on because to do so would challenge everything they have ever believed. As I said before, Ireland suffers from the one-track narrative and it suits our national interest to define ourselves by not being British rather than being Irish.

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 10:21PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It implies stupidity. Where do you think 'Taking the Mick' came from? Ever been in a room full of English people as an Irish joke is being told? Ever been screamed at because of your accent? Ever been threatened simply because of where you come from? I have.

It is racism. You may not have experienced racism, and I hope you never have, but if you had you would know that it isn't funny, it does matter and it shouldn't remain unchallenged.

Yes, it does imply stupidity and backwardness. There are many aspects of Irish society that can be regarded as being stupid and backwards, but that's for another thread.

And yes, I have on all counts. And it has shaped my outlook on life in the way that I realise that you can't go around having the terms of how you live your life dictated to you by idiots who shout louder than you.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 10:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you join an army controlled by a government that many see as warmongers (they have been involved in a huge proportion of the major wars and conflicts on this planet) then you know what you are signing up for.
.

warmongers? But for them we would be speaking German or Russian. Who went to the aid of little Catholic Belgium in WW1? Who stood up alone to the Nazis in 1940? Who helped the airlift in to Berlin in 1945? Who stood (along with USA etc ) to defend the west in the Cold war. Who (along with dozens of other countries) protected the wests oil supplies when Kuwait was invaded by Iraq ( saddam Hussein) and raped in Gulf War 1?

cameramonkey wrote: »

Are you English?

no. And I am not Scottish or Welsh either. I am Irish.

cameramonkey · 05-01-2017 10:25PM

Falthyron wrote: »

Nationalism in all its forms has a lot to answer for. Quite possibly, one of the worst ideologies to have been dreamed up. The need to have an 'other' in order to identify yourself is a testament to human ignorance. And I use the term 'human' because thats what we are: human. Not Irish, not British, not European, not Brazilian, not South African. Human.

Time to check out of this thread. Those who want to demonise everything British will not change their minds. Stubborn, myopic, and unable to move on because to do so would challenge everything they have ever believed. As I said before, Ireland suffers from the one-track narrative and it suits our national interest to define ourselves by not being British rather than being Irish.

You may seek to define yourself in that way but I think most Irish people would not.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:29PM

Didas wrote: »

All those Old IRA members and founding civil servants who fought in the British Army during WW1 were a real danger to the state alright

"The State" ? As in , the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, whose Head of State was King George?

Wow, how does one break this to you.......... when the boys came back after fighting for King and Country ie The State.............. they waged war on The State , seeking to break up that State and seeking Independence for Ireland.......

maryishere · 05-01-2017 10:29PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

Didn't the likes of Tom Barry and many more have military training from the Brits?...

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have served in the British armed forces. Relatively few people served in the IRA and fewer again served in both.

Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

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