Didas wrote: » Your second paragraph answers your question.
Cool_CM wrote: » What, so we're not allowed to take the piss out of ourselves as a nation now? It's a shame that some people's sense of Irish identity is so fragile that it can be shaken by somebody insinuating that we can be a bit stupid and backwards sometimes.
cameramonkey wrote: » Look up racism in the dictionary, see what it says.
cameramonkey wrote: » I would say that one of the great things about Ireland getting its political independence from the UK was the fact that Irish people en mass no longer had to fight and die in the UK's many wars since 1922. This has saved countless Irish families from great tragedy.
eeguy wrote: » I live in Dublin and heard it a few times. Basically it means a backward way of thinking. ie "it's a bit Irish that people still grumble into their pints about how the black and tans ruined the country".
maryishere wrote: » But they did ruin the country, and anyone who joins the armed forces in our neighbouring country in 2017 should stay there and be banned from every working in our public services or getting any Irish grants or welfare again.
Falthyron wrote: » As they would say in Westminster: 'Hear, hear!" :pac:
cameramonkey wrote: » I never said we cannot criticize ourselves, it is self evident that everyday we see self criticism however when you take on a a racist stereotype and use it on yourself then I see this as a bit sad.
LordSutch wrote: » Thing about the UK & Ireland is that we're inherently connected & linked together, entertwined physically, geographically, historically & culturally in so many ways. So why not consider joining the much bigger, vastly more powerful & better equiped armed forces from these islands? Yes join the Irish army by all accounts and go on peace keeping duty, but joining the BA (Irish Guards) would be a much bigger, bolder and more aggressive step to take in career soldering.... if that's what you wanted.
eeguy wrote: » The Irish never HAD to fight in any of Britains wars. The Irish joined because they wanted to, or felt they had a personal duty to. Conscription was passed in 1918, but never enforced.
cameramonkey wrote: » Many Irish had no choice, they were poor and wanted the money, they saw it as a way out of poverty. They were also in a highly militarized country and I'm sure there was a high level of propaganda that was used on the uneducated and educated alike. I have read that in many cases landlords often expected their tenants and workers to enlist. If you look at the % of Irish people now in the UK forces and compare it to the 30% to 40% that once graced some British campaigns then I think it is reasonable to assume that the war of independence and subsequent political agreements meant that Irish people didn't feel forced to join up. I think that this has saved countless Irish people lives and I would see this as a positive development.
Cool_CM wrote: » Irish people aren't a race. If anything, it is an ethnic or national stereotype. If you choose to see if as an offensive one, then that's up to you. I'm familiar with it and don't see it as being offensive. Also, there is a huge difference between criticising something and taking the piss out of something.
cameramonkey wrote: » Many Irish had no choice, they were poor and wanted the money, they saw it as a way out of poverty. They were also in a highly militarized country
cameramonkey wrote: » and I'm sure there was a high level of propaganda that was used on the uneducated and educated alike.
Professor Moriarty wrote: It is racism. You may not have experienced racism, and I hope you never have, but if you had you would know that it isn't funny, it does matter and it shouldn't remain unchallenged.
Senor Fancy Pants wrote: » I know guys who have joined the BA. I know guys who left the Irish Defence Forces (PDF) and joined the BA. I know guys who left the BA and joined the PDF. I know guys in this forum who have served in the BA. All good guys, all did well. I've no problem with it but It's not for me. I was born in Ireland, I'm Irish. I serve the island of Ireland, it's Government and most importantly of all, it's people. We dont "go to war". The likelyhood of me being needed to soldier in Ireland is very low. The closest I get to "do what I'm trained to do" is on overseas deployments in peace keeping / peace enforcement roles. It's not about getting a "chance to kill people". I dont know anyone who has joined for that reason. It's about trying to make a positive difference to peoples lives amidst a complex, varied and volotile environment. Holding a weapon whilst doing that is ironic. The PDF is restricted due to our financing, capabilities, "neutrality" and our percieved on island need. The BA offeres a chance to "do what you are trained to do". Thats not what the PDF can offer. I dont blame guys joining the BA. I just couldnt do it myself.
A Little Pony wrote: » Maryishere is a great forum member, I think her, myself, Lordsutch and Frattonfred keep the forum alive, otherwise everyone else would agree with each other.
maryishere wrote: » You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces, that Ireland was "a highly militarized country"? I think our army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks, our navy went home for dinner each day and our air force... The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.
Didas wrote: » All those Old IRA members and founding civil servants who fought in the British Army during WW1 were a real danger to the state alright
FrancieBrady wrote: » If you join an army controlled by a government that many see as warmongers (they have been involved in a huge proportion of the major wars and conflicts on this planet) then you know what you are signing up for. Don't train for things you don't want to do, would be my advice. It isn't an excuse to say, 'I'm not getting to do what I trained to do'.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » It implies stupidity. Where do you think 'Taking the Mick' came from? Ever been in a room full of English people as an Irish joke is being told? Ever been screamed at because of your accent? Ever been threatened simply because of where you come from? I have. It is racism. You may not have experienced racism, and I hope you never have, but if you had you would know that it isn't funny, it does matter and it shouldn't remain unchallenged.
FrancieBrady wrote: » If you join an army controlled by a government that many see as warmongers (they have been involved in a huge proportion of the major wars and conflicts on this planet) then you know what you are signing up for. .
cameramonkey wrote: » Are you English?
Falthyron wrote: » Nationalism in all its forms has a lot to answer for. Quite possibly, one of the worst ideologies to have been dreamed up. The need to have an 'other' in order to identify yourself is a testament to human ignorance. And I use the term 'human' because thats what we are: human. Not Irish, not British, not European, not Brazilian, not South African. Human. Time to check out of this thread. Those who want to demonise everything British will not change their minds. Stubborn, myopic, and unable to move on because to do so would challenge everything they have ever believed. As I said before, Ireland suffers from the one-track narrative and it suits our national interest to define ourselves by not being British rather than being Irish.
Lt Dan wrote: » Didn't the likes of Tom Barry and many more have military training from the Brits?...
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