Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

eeguy · 05-01-2017 06:57PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Before the troubles a lot of young Catholics from the six counties joined the BA because they couldn't get work in the once sectarian shithole you call home. They were a valuable asset to the PIRA when they got out.

WUMs aside, I think there should be consequences for any Irish citizen who joins a foreign army (especially the one that caused so much misery on this island). They should be excluded from working in the civil service for a start.

I don't understand this way of thinking.

Lads living their lives like the burning of Cork 100 years ago to the Troubles 50 years ago happened yesterday.
Both sides did sh*t things to each other. No one has clean hands.
Would you ever build a bridge and get the f*ck over it.

Excluded from joining the civil service in 2016 for joining the BA? What a joke.

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 06:58PM

FrancieBrady wrote:

How this 'army' has come to be seen as a benign career path by some Irish people is actually quite flabbergasting.

I find it quite flabbergasting that in this day and age people are getting so up in arms about a small number of people, who they presumably do not know and will never meet, leaving the country to join the UK armed forces. Especially without knowing anything about their personal backgrounds or motivations for doing so.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Cop yourself on.

Whilst not being fully blown Allies, we sure do share a lot of information and co-operate with them on a pretty high level:

Memorandum of Understanding regarding Defence Co-Operation.

British Irish Visa Scheme

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 07:05PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Many Irish joined the Army

Before the troubles a lot of young Catholics from the six counties joined the BA because they couldn't get work in the once sectarian shithole you call home. They were a valuable asset to the PIRA when they got out.

WUMs aside, I think there should be consequences for any Irish citizen who joins a foreign army (especially the one that caused so much misery on this island). They should be excluded from working in the civil service for a start.

Most IRA just shot innocent Garda while trying to stop a robbery. Some 'soldiers'.

the_syco · 05-01-2017 07:05PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes, of course. Because joining the BA is the same as becoming a Garda.

Not at all. In one your life is put in danger on a daily basis. In the other, you're given a gun.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

WUMs aside, I think there should be consequences for any Irish citizen who joins a foreign army (especially the one that caused so much misery on this island). They should be excluded from working in the civil service for a start.

Why? Because they wouldn't be in the habit of accepting bribes?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Let us not forget the UDR. Or the FCA. Same thing now that we're allies, apparently.

The FCA is now called the Reserve Defence Forces (RDF).

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no doubt that Irishmen have served in the British army. Even when they were killing and suppressing Irish people.

The IRA killed a load of Irish, and also kidnapped and killed many Irish.

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 07:08PM

eeguy wrote: »

I don't understand this way of thinking.

Lads living their lives like the burning of Cork 100 years ago to the Troubles 50 years ago happened yesterday.
Both sides did sh*t things to each other. No one has clean hands.
Would you ever build a bridge and get the f*ck over it.

Excluded from joining the civil service in 2016 for joining the BA? What a joke.

The same cohort who jump up and down about objections to Irish people joining a foreign force are very NOT over what happened on this island.
Look at the frothing tizzy they get into about whether somebody was in the IRA but still plaintively cry that we forget what the BA did.

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 07:11PM

the_syco wrote: »

The IRA killed a load of Irish, and also kidnapped and killed many Irish.

But 'IRA bad BA good?'

Carry on underlining the hypocrisy inherent in your position. Don't let me stop you.

Junkyard Tom · 05-01-2017 07:16PM

Falthyron wrote: »

Are you serious? Irish men/women who work in a highly-regarded, well-trained, service should be denied the opportunity to bring back their knowledge and help to improve our own service?

Didas wrote: »

anyone going to get a job with the BA in modern times should be equally free from negative judgement.

eeguy wrote: »

Excluded from joining the civil service in 2016 for joining the BA?

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 07:21PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

Why would one company hire somebody who has proven experience with a rival company? Because of the experience that they bring to the role.

Didas · 05-01-2017 07:22PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

All those Old IRA members and founding civil servants who fought in the British Army during WW1 were a real danger to the state alright

super_furry · 05-01-2017 07:23PM

If you want to shoot people, you're going to have a better chance of doing it in the British army than the Irish one I guess.

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 07:24PM

Didas wrote: »

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

All those Old IRA members and founding civil servants who fought in the British Army during WW1 were a real danger to the state alright

Any evidence that it is even true ha. Laughable.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 07:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no doubt that Irishmen have served in the British army. Even when they were killing and suppressing Irish people.
Some Irish will always do this.

'Bad' Irish, right?

As you sit there typing your anti-British rhetoric in your Man United/Liverpool jersey before getting ready to go to mass to join fellow oppressed Catholics in a gesture of solidarity and resilience againsts those who personally attacked you 100 years ago (or 40 years ago), ask yourself why do you feel the need to complain and challenge someone's vocation that has absolutely no impact on your life? What is it exactly, has the British government and one of its tools for implementing policy has actually done to your person today? How has it prevented you from being the person you are or want to be? Do you regularly fill in online personality tests and fail to answer certain questions because of 'Crown forces'? Will you be boycotting Christopher Nolan's upcoming film 'Dunkirk' because you will experience flashbacks of the atrocities committed on you, personally, over the last 100 years?

You were clearly raised to be anti-British and that is sad, to be honest. That you have been denied the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate another culture because of insular and ignorant pretense is an unfortunate state to be in. As someone who has interacted with members of the Irish army I can tell you that the vast majority of them regard the British Army with the utmost respect, and to some degree, jealousy - as someone here pointed out, they have the opportunity to travel the world and are better equipped, funded, and supported post-army life. Perhaps we should spend time trying to improve the lives of those who serve in the Irish army by looking outwards and seeing what other forces do, instead of trying to find búll**** to fling at them. Ironically, it can be quite typically Irish to belittle someone else than give praise or aim towards emulating.

stanley1980 · 05-01-2017 07:25PM

For me the thought of an Irish person joining the British Army is still pretty repellent. We all agree relations are far better between our countries which is in everyone's interest however for an Irish person to volunteer for their military is not the same as going there to work as a teacher, builder or accountant etc. This is a force that murdered (and tried to cover up) and persecuted Irish citizens in recent history. The British government still won't allow an enquiry into the Dublin/Monaghan Bombings as there is evidence their military colluded with loyalists. I'm in no way advocating the PIRA or anything of that nature btw.

Also it irritates me that they still have a Royal 'Irish' regiment etc- I understand the history here but these men don't represent the Irish state- I'd rather they changed its name.

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2017 07:27PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

yet apparently we should vote for someone who does believes that

The moral position of the Irish Republican Army, its right to engage in warfare, is based on:

(a) the right to resist foreign aggression;
(b) the right to revolt against tyranny and oppression; and
(c) the direct lineal succession with the Provisional Government of 1916, the first Dáil of 1919 and the second Dáil of 1921".

and therefore, does not actually recognise the legitimacy of the current government.

Didas · 05-01-2017 07:27PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Any evidence that it is even true ha. Laughable.

I know you are a loyalist WUM but it's not particularly laughable at all, considering most of the Irish Volunteers at the time were encourage to fight against German expansion by their leadership, and used their training with the BA to great effect when they fought against them to establish the state.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 07:29PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why would you want someone who has joined a foreign army and pledged allegiance to a foreign country in sensitive positions in your own sovereign state? Excluding people who choose to do the above from sensitive positions would be common sense.

Sensitive positions in our country? We don't have state secrets, and if we do, it relates to covering up corrupt politicians and crimes of the Catholic Church. We don't have nuclear weapons! Michael D isn't propped up on a stool with his finger on the big red button. If he even has a big red button, its for emergency tea in the Aras. What could 'an inside man/woman' possibly leak to foreign governments to screw us over? That we plan to sell dairy products to the Russians on the side?!

A part of their job was to swaer loyalty to a monarch in the duration of their employment. When that employment ends, so does their duty. No different to working for Google for five years, learning of their secrets and research, and then moving to Yahoo or Microsoft with such knowledge.

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 07:31PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Any evidence that it is even true ha. Laughable.

Tom Barry would be a pretty good example of somebody who fits that exact criteria.

Professor Moriarty · 05-01-2017 07:33PM

the_syco wrote: »

Not at all. In one your life is put in danger on a daily basis. In the other, you're given a gun.

Why? Because they wouldn't be in the habit of accepting bribes?

The FCA is now called the Reserve Defence Forces (RDF).

The IRA killed a load of Irish, and also kidnapped and killed many Irish.

I was being ironic in agreeing with the poster. Also, the FCA was stood down in 2005 and the UDR in 1992, again I was being ironic in the comparison.

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 07:33PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Any evidence that it is even true ha. Laughable.

Tom Barry would be a pretty good example of somebody who fits that exact criteria.

Most IRA post 1916 and civil war had British Army background?

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 07:38PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Most IRA post 1916 and civil war had British Army background?

I never said most, I gave you a specific example of a fairly prominent individual who fits the criteria.

Professor Moriarty · 05-01-2017 07:38PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

I find it quite flabbergasting that in this day and age people are getting so up in arms about a small number of people, who they presumably do not know and will never meet, leaving the country to join the UK armed forces. Especially without knowing anything about their personal backgrounds or motivations for doing so.

Whilst not being fully blown Allies, we sure do share a lot of information and co-operate with them on a pretty high level:

Memorandum of Understanding regarding Defence Co-Operation.

British Irish Visa Scheme

Indeed. My point about the Gardaí and the BA remains, though. Joining one is not the same as joining the other.

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 07:43PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Cool_CM wrote: »

I find it quite flabbergasting that in this day and age people are getting so up in arms about a small number of people, who they presumably do not know and will never meet, leaving the country to join the UK armed forces. Especially without knowing anything about their personal backgrounds or motivations for doing so.

Whilst not being fully blown Allies, we sure do share a lot of information and co-operate with them on a pretty high level:

Memorandum of Understanding regarding Defence Co-Operation.

British Irish Visa Scheme

Indeed. My point about the Gardaí and the BA remains, though. Joining one is not the same as joining the other.

You have Irish intelligence working with MI5 on security against terrorism, so why begrudge Irish people joining the British Army? It is now a time of friendship isn't it? The Queen loves Irish people.

Cool_CM · 05-01-2017 07:46PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

You have Irish intelligence working with MI5 on security against terrorism, so why begrudge Irish people joining the British Army? It is now a time of friendship isn't it? The Queen loves Irish people.

That's the spirit!

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 07:58PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

You have Irish intelligence working with MI5 on security against terrorism, so why begrudge Irish people joining the British Army? It is now a time of friendship isn't it? The Queen loves Irish people.

The British Army on the streets of NI shooting Irish children is still a possibility. They could even be deployed against loyalists who I believe are Irish people.
That an Irish person thinks of career first when joining such a force I find morally unjustifiable. It is no accident that I and others would find ourselves ideologically opposed to such a career choice.

Didas · 05-01-2017 08:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The British Army on the streets of NI shooting Irish children is still a possibility. They could even be deployed against loyalists who I believe are Irish people.
That an Irish person thinks of career first when joining such a force I find morally unjustifiable. It is no accident that I and others would find ourselves ideologically opposed to such a career choice.

Could describe a reasonably likely scenario which causes you to believe this a realistic possibility?

Commotion Ocean · 05-01-2017 08:03PM

British Army having a recruitment drive in Ireland is like Hitler having a recruitment drive in Poland for the Nazi Youth.

eeguy · 05-01-2017 08:05PM

dfeo wrote: »

British Army having a recruitment drive in Ireland is like Hitler having a recruitment drive in Poland for the Nazi Youth.

And the award for most stupid comment of the day goes to...

end of the road · 05-01-2017 08:06PM

i have no time what soever for any irish person who joins the BA. they should give up their citizenship while they are at it.

Falthyron · 05-01-2017 08:06PM

Didas wrote: »

Could describe a reasonably likely scenario which causes you to believe this a realistic possibility?

He can't. He's clutching at straws now by invoking 'children' for maximum emotional manipulation. It's like Godwin's law. When someone is losing an argument and you can't use 'Nazi's' you use children.

People like this won't change. Fortunately, in this country anyway, people like this are a dying breed.

EDIT: Oh look, someone mentioned the Nazis.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 08:12PM

dfeo wrote: »

British Army having a recruitment drive in Ireland is like Hitler having a recruitment drive in Poland for the Nazi Youth.

A bit Irish mentioning Hitler and the Nazis when it was the British ( inc 100, 000 Irishmen who joined their forces then ) who stood alone against the Nazis in 1940.

Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

Comments