The first victim of war is truth, this angers me.

The Backwards Man · 26-12-2016 02:30PM

Skommando wrote: »

Sounds exactly like what someone who prefers to deny the truth would say . . .

Which is exactly what someone who only believes whatever suits their own agenda would say. . .

indy_man · 26-12-2016 02:32PM

Palmach wrote: »

I have watched the second one. The so-called journalist is plain wrong.

Ah... explain?

Dohnjoe · 26-12-2016 02:38PM

indy_man wrote: »

Please don't give me the line these are too long to watch. The so called moderates on the side of the US are behedding 12 year olds. This is important!

There are atrocities happening on all sides - it's a war

There are over 1,000 rebel groups, there are extremist groups, there are Syrian government forces

As this conflict (or any war) prolongs, atrocities increase. Individuals within moderate rebel groups can carry out atrocities - likewise international troops (e.g. US soldiers in Iraq) can individually carry out atrocities

However, when standing back and looking at the overall picture of Syria..

The Syrian military and associated miliitia's have been carrying out the vast bulk of atrocities and have been doing so since 2011 - this is corroborated by virtually all independent reporters and observers in the conflict, as well as by organisations such as HRW and Amnesty. It's the single largest killing machine in Syria, hence garnering the most attention (and international criticism)

Critics who are fiercely anti-Western or pro-Assad prefer to selectively focus on atrocities committed by moderate (or previously moderate) groups, as well as ISIS and other extremists brigades

The reality is that all sides have made mistakes and that the whole situation is a meat-grinder - but that the government of Syria bears ultimate responsibility for the conflict and the overwhelming number of casualties

And as with any conflict, there are partisan sources, fake news, activists posing as reporters, propaganda outlets, etc all trying to present their own narrative, cherry-picking information/distorting facts/conjuring conspiracies/etc

Yourself isit · 26-12-2016 02:50PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

Any time I see something in block capitals, or claiming to be the TRUTH or that it is EXPOSING something, I immediately turn off because chances are it's a quack video from the same people who think Gaddafi is alive on Mars.

You're the first man to use capitals in this thread.

Yourself isit · 26-12-2016 02:51PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Hah, propaganda used to be what was broadcast. Now it's what isn't.

It's always been, mostly, what isn't broadcast.

indy_man · 26-12-2016 02:54PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are atrocities happening on all sides - it's a war

There are over 1,000 rebel groups, there are extremist groups, there are Syrian government forces

As this conflict (or any war) prolongs, atrocities increase. Individuals within moderate rebel groups can carry out atrocities - likewise international troops (e.g. US soldiers in Iraq) can individually carry out atrocities

However, when standing back and looking at the overall picture of Syria..

The Syrian military and associated miliitia's have been carrying out the vast bulk of atrocities and have been doing so since 2011 - this is corroborated by virtually all independent reporters and observers in the conflict, as well as by organisations such as HRW and Amnesty. It's the single largest killing machine in Syria, hence garnering the most attention (and international criticism)

Critics who are fiercely anti-Western or pro-Assad prefer to selectively focus on atrocities committed by moderate (or previously moderate) groups, as well as ISIS and other extremists brigades

The reality is that all sides have made mistakes and that the whole situation is a meat-grinder - but that the government of Syria bears ultimate responsibility for the conflict and the overwhelming number of casualties

And as with any conflict, there are partisan sources, fake news, activists posing as reporters, propaganda outlets, etc all trying to present their own narrative, cherry-picking information/distorting facts/conjuring conspiracies/etc

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

I would also assume you possibly still believe Saddam had wepons of mass destruction.

The_Valeyard · 26-12-2016 02:56PM

indy_man wrote: »

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

As apposed to the 'independent' Russian sponsored media.

b_mac2 · 26-12-2016 02:57PM

indy_man wrote: »

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

I would also assume you possibly still believe Saddam had wepons of mass destruction.

You know it has. Listen to him sure- "moderate rebels"

Ffs.

Skommando · 26-12-2016 02:59PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Which is exactly what someone who only believes whatever suits their own agenda would say. . .

And you're wrong again.
I don't have an agenda because I don't care for any side.
The truth still exists, no matter how much you try to deny it.

RobertKK · 26-12-2016 03:02PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Hah, propaganda used to be what was broadcast. Now it's what isn't.

Propaganda works both ways, the aim is to influence, and omitting information is also propaganda.
Before any war against Libya, there was videos on liveleak from Benghazi of people being beheaded by Al Qaeda. Gaddafi said there was a terrorist problem in Benghazi.
The west and the Middle eastern enemies of Gadaffi spun it to say that Gaddafi was going to commit genocide in Benghazi and the people of Benghazi had to be protected.
There was nothing about the terrorist problem there, which in the end came back to bite warmongering Hillary Clinton with the attack on the US government buildings in Benghazi.
Anyway the coalition were going to stop a 'massacre', but the coalition killed thousands of people instead and gave control of the country to terrorists.

It all started when truth about a terrorist problem in Benghazi which Gaddafi said he had to deal with was omitted, and instead replaced with Gaddafi was going to kill people who wanted freedom.

Stealthfins · 26-12-2016 03:03PM

When I was in my teens until my late 30's I believed a lot of what I heard about the middle east.

Iran being the bad guys,how they are bad to christians,sunnis,sufis,jews and bahi's.

Its bull****, Iran is very strict on protecting people and having a safe society.

I met christians from Iran here touring Ireland, I was planting up a herbaceaus border in a big garden in an old estate.
One man and his family came over asking me about delphiniums, I greeted him saying Salam Alikum its an arabic greeting,he replied Alikum Salam and said thanks for the greeting but im christian.

Told me about the amazing country Iran,how the islamic gardens are amazing.
The parks,forests,unique landscapes,the culture the people etc....

He was into fishing I got friendly with him,he was staying in Liscannor I brought him fishing that evening from the rocks in Doolin,we caught a few pollock and mackerel.

He was one of the most intetesting people I met,he used to watch the news during the 70's and 80's, used to wonder why the Irish were blowing the **** out of each other Christians bombing christians....killing police men,bombing bars and buildings in England and Ireland.
Innocent people blown to bits,familys torn apart, people full of fear...
People taken into cars,and because of their religion they're tortured and shot.
Men lined up and shot.

I heard Syria was very secular and a nice place to live,before all this head chopping etc started off.

Who armed the rebels ?

Its easy to make a flag,one day you could have an FSA flag on your bunker the next an IS flag....

Yourself isit · 26-12-2016 03:05PM

So we know the Americans and the west lied about Kosovo, Libya and WMD in Iraq.

It's a crazy conspiracy to say they are lying about Syria.

Peregrine · 26-12-2016 03:06PM

We have enough threads on this as it is. This is After Hours. You can discuss this in Politics Café or Politics forums.

The first victim of war is truth, this angers me.

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