The first victim of war is truth, this angers me.

indy_man

Why is the corporate media lying to us on Syria? These are independent journalists who have by their own money spent time in Syria talking to many sides of the conflict and presenting their findings.

If you think you know what is going on in Syria then please watch these. Then let me know what you think the truth is and if you feel the truth is important.

Please don't give me the line these are too long to watch. The so called moderates on the side of the US are behedding 12 year olds. This is important!

Renegade Mechanic

Lol, wait until you hear the stories the victor tells. It's far from just the first victim

BunkMoreland

Insert relax it's Christmas comment here

arybvtcw0eolkf

Relax, its Christmas.

Palmach

indy_man wrote: »

Why is the corporate media lying to us on Syria? These are independent journalists who have by their own money spent time in Syria talking to many sides of the conflict and presenting their findings.

If you think you know what is going on in Syria then please watch these. Then let me know what you think the truth is and if you feel the truth is important.

Please don't give me the line these are too long to watch. The so called moderates on the side of the US are behedding 12 year olds. This is important!

Another thread where "independent" journalists are given credence. They usually have done and tend to dabble in wild conspiracy theories.

The flying mouse

I going to the pub...

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Renegade Mechanic

Palmach wrote: »

Another thread where "independent" journalists are given credence. They usually have done and tend to dabble in wild conspiracy theories.

Aye, can't wait for "fake news" to be made illegal in 2017.

The_Valeyard

I thought Alfred Marder was a communist

The Backwards Man

Never believe anyone who has to announce that they're telling the 'truth'.

Every single source has a bias, be that me or you or a massive news outlet. By claiming you're telling the truth in its entirety you've automatically proven that you're not.

Flint Fredstone

Hey guys, stop believing the unverifiable mainstream news and start believing the unverifiable independent news.

biko

Hey, I found some videos you should all watch.

archer22

Palmach wrote: »

Another thread where "independent" journalists are given credence. They usually have done and tend to dabble in wild conspiracy theories.

That' s only your conspiracy theory

Pac1Man

Wallace and Gromit is on.

arybvtcw0eolkf

'Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear' ~ Bruce Lee.

brian_t

It will be another hour before we start getting posts from folk who have actually watched both videos.

Ted111

What if the war is initiated by the shooting of an enemy soldier.
Then that soldier is the first victim.

The bullet moves faster than information, true or otherwise.

So you're wrong OP.

HA HA!

weldoninhio

Ted111 wrote: »

What if the war is initiated by the shooting of an enemy soldier.
Then that soldier is the first victim.

The bullet moves faster than information, true or otherwise.

So you're wrong OP.

HA HA!

Telling one soldier that another is the enemy when war hasn't even broken out yet would be a lie, so it's back to the truth being the first victim.

Flint Fredstone

"Mainstream media is all lies and the people are all sheep for blindly following it"

"Where did you hear that?"

"Some anonymous guy with a Facebook page"

RobertKK

Under Assad controlled Syria before the war we did not have a migrant crisis.
It was with the rebels who are most backward that the mass migrant crisis started.

Just remember how we were told that Slobodan Milosevic was a genocidal maniac which allowed Serbia to be attacked, and Kosovo to be an issue - Kosovo currently a source of terrorism in Europe.
Then after the death of Milosevic, The Hague found he was innocent of the charges brought against him.
The war launched by Bill Clinton was based on propaganda and lies.

We are subject to similar lies again and again, Iraq was lies, the war against Libya was based on lies.

We saw in the recent US elections how close certain sections of the mainstream media were very close to the Clinton camp.
When you have hand in gloves, it is easy to give the public lies and to avoid reporting news that doesn't suit the political agenda.

The west is not as free as we like to think we are, we are being fed by the media a news that is there to suit a political aim or cause.
I think over time the situation is getting worse.

MRnotlob606

None of us knowhat is truly going on in Syria. The only way you can really know is through lived experience. There are posters here who will tell try tell how it is but really a lot of them are talking ****e.

indy_man

Millions displaced, 500,000+ killed, Children and adults beheaded, some in front of their families, unspeakable atrocities.

AND STILL PEOPLE MAKE JOKES. Please have some respect.

CINCLANTFLT

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

"Mainstream media is all lies and the people are all sheep for blindly following it"

"Where did you hear that?"

"Some anonymous guy with a Facebook page"

Good enough for me... I'm off to thrash the local newspaper offices!!!! Well I might have some turkey sandwiches first!

Palmach

brian_t wrote: »

It will be another hour before we start getting posts from folk who have actually watched both videos.

I have watched the second one. The so-called journalist is plain wrong.

Palmach

RobertKK wrote: »

Under Assad controlled Syria before the war we did not have a migrant crisis.
It was with the rebels who are most backward that the mass migrant crisis started.

Just remember how we were told that Slobodan Milosevic was a genocidal maniac which allowed Serbia to be attacked, and Kosovo to be an issue - Kosovo currently a source of terrorism in Europe.
Then after the death of Milosevic, The Hague found he was innocent of the charges brought against him.
The war launched by Bill Clinton was based on propaganda and lies.

We are subject to similar lies again and again, Iraq was lies, the war against Libya was based on lies.

We saw in the recent US elections how close certain sections of the mainstream media were very close to the Clinton camp.
When you have hand in gloves, it is easy to give the public lies and to avoid reporting news that doesn't suit the political agenda.

The west is not as free as we like to think we are, we are being fed by the media a news that is there to suit a political aim or cause.
I think over time the situation is getting worse.

You have a link for this yes?

Ted111

weldoninhio wrote: »

Telling one soldier that another is the enemy when war hasn't even broken out yet would be a lie, so it's back to the truth being the first victim.

What if the soldier fired his gun accidentally triggering the war - so no one told him anything. If he wasn't told anything then he can't be told a lie.

Hande hoche!

Palmach wrote: »

You have a link for this yes?

Here's some differing viewpoints:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/01/the-exoneration-of-milosevic-the-ictys-surprise-ruling/

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/08/slobodan-milosevic-hero-160823124808287.html

AnGaelach

indy_man wrote: »

Why is the corporate media lying to us on Syria? These are independent journalists who have by their own money spent time in Syria talking to many sides of the conflict and presenting their findings.

Any time I see something in block capitals, or claiming to be the TRUTH or that it is EXPOSING something, I immediately turn off because chances are it's a quack video from the same people who think Gaddafi is alive on Mars.

RobertKK

Palmach wrote: »

You have a link for this yes?

http://johnpilger.com/articles/provoking-nuclear-war-by-media

The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague has quietly cleared the late Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, of war crimes committed during the 1992-95 Bosnian war, including the massacre at Srebrenica.

Far from conspiring with the convicted Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan Karadzic, Milosevic actually "condemned ethnic cleansing", opposed Karadzic and tried to stop the war that dismembered Yugoslavia. Buried near the end of a 2,590 page judgement on Karadzic last February, this truth further demolishes the propaganda that justified Nato's illegal onslaught on Serbia in 1999.

Milosevic died of a heart attack in 2006, alone in his cell in The Hague, during what amounted to a bogus trial by an American-invented "international tribunal". Denied heart surgery that might have saved his life, his condition worsened and was monitored and kept secret by US officials, as WikiLeaks has since revealed.

Milosevic was the victim of war propaganda that today runs like a torrent across our screens and newspapers and beckons great danger for us all. He was the prototype demon, vilified by the western media as the "butcher of the Balkans" who was responsible for "genocide", especially in the secessionist Yugoslav province of Kosovo. Prime Minister Tony Blair said so, invoked the Holocaust and demanded action against "this new Hitler". David Scheffer, the US ambassador-at-large for war crimes [sic], declared that as many as "225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59" may have been murdered by Milosevic's forces.

This was the justification for Nato's bombing, led by Bill Clinton and Blair, that killed hundreds of civilians in hospitals, schools, churches, parks and television studios and destroyed Serbia's economic infrastructure. It was blatantly ideological; at a notorious "peace conference" in Rambouillet in France, Milosevic was confronted by Madeleine Albright, the US secretary of state, who was to achieve infamy with her remark that the deaths of half a million Iraqi children were "worth it".

Albright delivered an "offer" to Milosevic that no national leader could accept. Unless he agreed to the foreign military occupation of his country, with the occupying forces "outside the legal process", and to the imposition of a neo-liberal "free market", Serbia would be bombed. This was contained in an "Appendix B", which the media failed to read or suppressed. The aim was to crush Europe's last independent "socialist" state.

Once Nato began bombing, there was a stampede of Kosovar refugees "fleeing a holocaust". When it was over, international police teams descended on Kosovo to exhume the victims of the "holocaust". The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing "a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines". The final count of the dead in Kosovo was 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the pro-Nato Kosovo Liberation Front. There was no genocide. The Nato attack was both a fraud and a war crime.

All but a fraction of America's vaunted "precision guided" missiles hit not military but civilian targets, including the news studios of Radio Television Serbia in Belgrade. Sixteen people were killed, including cameramen, producers and a make-up artist. Blair described the dead, profanely, as part of Serbia's "command and control". In 2008, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, Carla Del Ponte, revealed that she had been pressured not to investigate Nato's crimes.

This was the model for Washington's subsequent invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and, by stealth, Syria. All qualify as "paramount crimes" under the Nuremberg standard; all depended on media propaganda. While tabloid journalism played its traditional part, it was serious, credible, often liberal journalism that was the most effective - the evangelical promotion of Blair and his wars by the Guardian, the incessant lies about Saddam Hussein's non-existent weapons of mass destruction in the Observer and the New York Times, and the unerring drumbeat of government propaganda by the BBC in the silence of its omissions.

Skommando

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Every single source has a bias, be that me or you or a massive news outlet. By claiming you're telling the truth in its entirety you've automatically proven that you're not.

Sounds exactly like what someone who prefers to deny the truth would say . . .

Renegade Mechanic

RobertKK wrote: »

http://johnpilger.com/articles/provoking-nuclear-war-by-media

Hah, propaganda used to be what was broadcast. Now it's what isn't.

The Backwards Man

Skommando wrote: »

Sounds exactly like what someone who prefers to deny the truth would say . . .

Which is exactly what someone who only believes whatever suits their own agenda would say. . .

indy_man

Palmach wrote: »

I have watched the second one. The so-called journalist is plain wrong.

Ah... explain?

Dohnjoe

indy_man wrote: »

Please don't give me the line these are too long to watch. The so called moderates on the side of the US are behedding 12 year olds. This is important!

There are atrocities happening on all sides - it's a war

There are over 1,000 rebel groups, there are extremist groups, there are Syrian government forces

As this conflict (or any war) prolongs, atrocities increase. Individuals within moderate rebel groups can carry out atrocities - likewise international troops (e.g. US soldiers in Iraq) can individually carry out atrocities

However, when standing back and looking at the overall picture of Syria..

The Syrian military and associated miliitia's have been carrying out the vast bulk of atrocities and have been doing so since 2011 - this is corroborated by virtually all independent reporters and observers in the conflict, as well as by organisations such as HRW and Amnesty. It's the single largest killing machine in Syria, hence garnering the most attention (and international criticism)

Critics who are fiercely anti-Western or pro-Assad prefer to selectively focus on atrocities committed by moderate (or previously moderate) groups, as well as ISIS and other extremists brigades

The reality is that all sides have made mistakes and that the whole situation is a meat-grinder - but that the government of Syria bears ultimate responsibility for the conflict and the overwhelming number of casualties

And as with any conflict, there are partisan sources, fake news, activists posing as reporters, propaganda outlets, etc all trying to present their own narrative, cherry-picking information/distorting facts/conjuring conspiracies/etc

Yourself isit

AnGaelach wrote: »

Any time I see something in block capitals, or claiming to be the TRUTH or that it is EXPOSING something, I immediately turn off because chances are it's a quack video from the same people who think Gaddafi is alive on Mars.

You're the first man to use capitals in this thread.

Yourself isit

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Hah, propaganda used to be what was broadcast. Now it's what isn't.

It's always been, mostly, what isn't broadcast.

indy_man

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are atrocities happening on all sides - it's a war

There are over 1,000 rebel groups, there are extremist groups, there are Syrian government forces

As this conflict (or any war) prolongs, atrocities increase. Individuals within moderate rebel groups can carry out atrocities - likewise international troops (e.g. US soldiers in Iraq) can individually carry out atrocities

However, when standing back and looking at the overall picture of Syria..

The Syrian military and associated miliitia's have been carrying out the vast bulk of atrocities and have been doing so since 2011 - this is corroborated by virtually all independent reporters and observers in the conflict, as well as by organisations such as HRW and Amnesty. It's the single largest killing machine in Syria, hence garnering the most attention (and international criticism)

Critics who are fiercely anti-Western or pro-Assad prefer to selectively focus on atrocities committed by moderate (or previously moderate) groups, as well as ISIS and other extremists brigades

The reality is that all sides have made mistakes and that the whole situation is a meat-grinder - but that the government of Syria bears ultimate responsibility for the conflict and the overwhelming number of casualties

And as with any conflict, there are partisan sources, fake news, activists posing as reporters, propaganda outlets, etc all trying to present their own narrative, cherry-picking information/distorting facts/conjuring conspiracies/etc

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

I would also assume you possibly still believe Saddam had wepons of mass destruction.

The_Valeyard

indy_man wrote: »

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

As apposed to the 'independent' Russian sponsored media.

b_mac2

indy_man wrote: »

Then I take it you have not watched those videos and your information comes almost entirely from western backed corporate media.

I would also assume you possibly still believe Saddam had wepons of mass destruction.

You know it has. Listen to him sure- "moderate rebels"

Ffs.

Skommando

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Which is exactly what someone who only believes whatever suits their own agenda would say. . .

And you're wrong again.
I don't have an agenda because I don't care for any side.
The truth still exists, no matter how much you try to deny it.

RobertKK

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Hah, propaganda used to be what was broadcast. Now it's what isn't.

Propaganda works both ways, the aim is to influence, and omitting information is also propaganda.
Before any war against Libya, there was videos on liveleak from Benghazi of people being beheaded by Al Qaeda. Gaddafi said there was a terrorist problem in Benghazi.
The west and the Middle eastern enemies of Gadaffi spun it to say that Gaddafi was going to commit genocide in Benghazi and the people of Benghazi had to be protected.
There was nothing about the terrorist problem there, which in the end came back to bite warmongering Hillary Clinton with the attack on the US government buildings in Benghazi.
Anyway the coalition were going to stop a 'massacre', but the coalition killed thousands of people instead and gave control of the country to terrorists.

It all started when truth about a terrorist problem in Benghazi which Gaddafi said he had to deal with was omitted, and instead replaced with Gaddafi was going to kill people who wanted freedom.

Stealthfins

When I was in my teens until my late 30's I believed a lot of what I heard about the middle east.

Iran being the bad guys,how they are bad to christians,sunnis,sufis,jews and bahi's.

Its bull****, Iran is very strict on protecting people and having a safe society.

I met christians from Iran here touring Ireland, I was planting up a herbaceaus border in a big garden in an old estate.
One man and his family came over asking me about delphiniums, I greeted him saying Salam Alikum its an arabic greeting,he replied Alikum Salam and said thanks for the greeting but im christian.

Told me about the amazing country Iran,how the islamic gardens are amazing.
The parks,forests,unique landscapes,the culture the people etc....

He was into fishing I got friendly with him,he was staying in Liscannor I brought him fishing that evening from the rocks in Doolin,we caught a few pollock and mackerel.

He was one of the most intetesting people I met,he used to watch the news during the 70's and 80's, used to wonder why the Irish were blowing the **** out of each other Christians bombing christians....killing police men,bombing bars and buildings in England and Ireland.
Innocent people blown to bits,familys torn apart, people full of fear...
People taken into cars,and because of their religion they're tortured and shot.
Men lined up and shot.

I heard Syria was very secular and a nice place to live,before all this head chopping etc started off.

Who armed the rebels ?


Its easy to make a flag,one day you could have an FSA flag on your bunker the next an IS flag....

Yourself isit

So we know the Americans and the west lied about Kosovo, Libya and WMD in Iraq.

It's a crazy conspiracy to say they are lying about Syria.

Peregrine

We have enough threads on this as it is. This is After Hours. You can discuss this in Politics Café or Politics forums.