Why do Irish people accept status quo?

Johnboner · 23-12-2016 08:59AM #1

Why most of us are satisfied with the current situation. I mean healthcare, housing, homeless, roads etc. I don't understand why so many people just accept the situation and dismiss any attempt to change by just saying where will you get the money or that there is nothing that can be done! but that is so wrong, people that achieve great things are the people who say how can we improve this? And work towards the goals instead of just giving up and accepting the situation. I will never understand this, why we as a nation do not want changes to happen or just give some excuse as to why it cannot be done, when we should be saying how it can be done. Just disappointed with the current situation in our country and that nothing is being done, same situation in France would likely cause rioting. For people saying that it is unreasonable please visit other European countries and have a look for yourself. We should be constantly looking to improve instead of just accepting the situation. Maybe that is in our culture so people will not understand me and will try to subtly insult me in various ways instead of giving arguments.

lawred2 · 23-12-2016 09:01AM

Satisfied?

enricoh · 23-12-2016 09:02AM

They were a lot bigger in the 80's early 90's I would have thought. Just milking rocking all over the world these days!

Johnboner · 23-12-2016 09:05AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Satisfied?

After reading the topic I forgot it's name but where we are compared to other European countries I would say yes. Majority seem to be comparing Ireland with third world which does not make sense. ''Hey we are better than Somalia that means we are great!'' but so is many other countries just because you are better than someone does not mean you should just give up on improving and accept the situation I just don't understand the logic.

Advbrd · 23-12-2016 09:06AM

enricoh wrote: »

They were a lot bigger in the 80's early 90's I would have thought. Just milking rocking all over the world these days!

Took me a moment.

evolving_doors · 23-12-2016 09:06AM

Do other countries have the same preponderance of charities?

If we stopped outsourcing citizens problems and demanded that it become an issue that the state solely had to deal with... would we be willing to pay more in tax?

I'm not blaming charities BTW, I think they are more of a symptom than a cause.

Rumpy Pumpy · 23-12-2016 09:08AM

We live in a mature and prosperous social democracy. People have the chance to make changes to the country through free and open elections. We don't vote for lunatic lefties or rapidly right wing parties, much to the dismay of their online keyboard warriors. Turns out Paddy and Petula Punter know things are pretty damn good and some goon like Paul Murphy isn't going to make it any better with his talk of revolution.

Johnboner · 23-12-2016 09:11AM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

We live in a mature and prosperous social democracy. People have the chance to make changes to the country through free and open elections. We don't vote for lunatic lefties or rapidly right wing parties, much to the dismay of their online keyboard warriors. Turns out Paddy and Petula Punter know things are pretty damn good and some goon like Paul Murphy isn't going to make it any better with his talk of revolution.

We don't have much say except in electing the people which do not seem to be interested in doing anything. This is the reason why I strongly support direct democracy, Switzerland is very successful in this regard, we should be taking examples from it.

Pinch Flat · 23-12-2016 09:13AM

I wouldn't agree with the above statement that we are a mature society - on the contrary i'd say Irish society is very immature socially with some of the attitudes out there.

Also at the centre Irish life is the mé féin attitude. Once the number of society for which "I'm all right jack" outstrips the numbers who don't have a pot to p!ss in the current situation will prevail.

Advbrd · 23-12-2016 09:13AM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

We live in a mature and prosperous social democracy. People have the chance to make changes to the country through free and open elections. We don't vote for lunatic lefties or rapidly right wing parties, much to the dismay of their online keyboard warriors. Turns out Paddy and Petula Punter know things are pretty damn good and some goon like Paul Murphy isn't going to make it any better with his talk of revolution.

Quite a few lunatic lefties elected last time around. We do not have the same issues which has spawned the rise (or re-emergence) of the right in other countries yet but I suspect that will change over the next generation or so.

munchkin_utd · 23-12-2016 09:19AM

Johnboner wrote: »

We don't have much say except in electing the people which do not seem to be interested in doing anything. This is the reason why I strongly support direct democracy, Switzerland is very successful in this regard, we should be taking examples from it.

people have a massive say

they want water for zero cost, and they elect politicans to deliver it.
they want a medical system for zero cost, and they elect politicans to deliver it.
they want free transport, electricity, tv licence, phone, heating for pensioners, and they elect politicans to deliver it
they want low income taxes, and they elect politicans to deliver it

The people of Ireland want scandanavian/ germanic level services BUT are not prepared to pay for it.
The politicans and civil service are actually working miracles to somehow provide the amount of services that are being provided with one of the lowest income tax regimes in the western world.

And, it'll not be long again till 50% of workers are out of the tax net like it was during the boom and dont pay a single cent of income tax for what is a fairly generous raft of services to the general public.

Rumpy Pumpy · 23-12-2016 09:21AM

Johnboner wrote: »

We don't have much say except in electing the people which do not seem to be interested in doing anything. This is the reason why I strongly support direct democracy, Switzerland is very successful in this regard, we should be taking examples from it.

We have gone from being one of the poorest countries in Western Europe at independence to one of the safest, most prosperous and downright fair societies on the planet. We have excellent access to politicians, perhaps too much so, as it means they tend to cater for the shouty parish pump crew instead of the greater good.

What some people really need from Santa for Christmas is a sense of perspective.

Badly Drunk Boy · 23-12-2016 09:22AM

Johnboner wrote: »

Why most of us are satisfied with the current situation...

Do you accept the status quo? And if not, how do you show this non-acceptance (other than starting anti-Irish threads on boards)?

Johnboner · 23-12-2016 09:24AM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

We have gone from being one of the poorest countries in Western Europe at independence to one of the safest, most prosperous and downright fair societies on the planet. We have excellent access to politicians, perhaps too much so, as it means they tend to cater for the shouty parish pump crew instead of the greater good.

What some people really need from Santa for Christmas is a sense of perspective.

Of course, there is no denying that but does not mean we should stop there. We are almost on top but why not be on top?

Giruilla · 23-12-2016 09:25AM

a) Because we really don't have it that bad.

b) In Ireland if 0.015% of the population get angry enough and march the streets, its 60,000 people. In Paris it'd be 1,000,000.

Johnboner · 23-12-2016 09:27AM

Giruilla wrote: »

a) Because we really don't have it that bad.

b) In Ireland if 0.015% of the population get angry enough and march the streets, its 60,000 people. In Paris it'd be 1,000,000.

I never said we have it that bad, I said why we don't want to improve on that not bad.

Absolam · 23-12-2016 09:29AM

The Swiss are also remarkable for their commitment to the status quo, and are known to be conservative when it comes to changing legislation in regards to issues like abortion for instance; it took numerous referenda before they came to where they are now, and they have shown distinct inertia towards changing since. Their system is also, more than any other, accused of being a tyranny of the majority, since direct democracy severely hampers the influence minorities can have on public policy.

I think it's fair to say that any large group of people (like a nation) will lean towards the status quo, because it minimises risk to what they have, which is very important to people with assets and families, who tend to make up the majority of populations. I'd be willing to bet that the more affluent a society is, the more risk averse (accepting of the status quo) it becomes.

weldoninhio · 23-12-2016 09:31AM

Politically speaking Ireland is a corrupt cesspit. There are literally no options for the voters and no way to change this. We have the two establishment parties, Labour, Sinn Fein and then a mishmash of the bad and the worse.

The two establishment parties are the exact same with except for in name. Labour tried to become a third establishment party and abandoned its ethos to do so. Sinn Fein still have the troubles hanging over them. So politically we are screwed. What options are there?? Most people can't afford to take days off work to protest because every penny is a prisoner to people who work. Rising up on a Saturday or Sunday is pointless because the Dail is empty,

What would you suggest to change the status quo??

VinLieger · 23-12-2016 09:34AM

Johnboner wrote: »

I never said we have it that bad, I said why we don't want to improve on that not bad.

People do they just don't want to have to pay for it is the actual problem

Your Face · 23-12-2016 09:35AM

I wonder what the OP does that challenges the status quo.
Perhaps they would like to enlighten me - a mere Johnny Paycheque.

munchkin_utd · 23-12-2016 09:38AM

Johnboner wrote: »

I never said we have it that bad, I said why we don't want to improve on that not bad.

the medical system could be very easily fixed, but if you wanted to have something like the german system, would you be prepared to pay 16% of your wages ON TOP of your normal tax and PRSI ?
Seriously, on the average wage of 33k a year, a couple has a joint wage of 66k, and thats 10500 per year in contributions to the medical system if you had the german model.
Myself and the wife are earning more, so we are paying more like 15grand a year in german medical insurance, but in Ireland everything has to be free, so that wouldnt work there .

if you want german transport systems, then are you prepared to pay more tax? Actually, in germany (and other continental countries) most of that is covered by corporation tax add ons levied on company profits by the local councils. But of course Ireland has corporation tax laws designed for companies to dodge tax, not pay it, and then its a miniscule on whatever a company actually declares . So again, you can indeed do better but who pays for it ?

AnGaelach · 23-12-2016 09:40AM

Johnboner wrote: »

Why most of us are satisfied with the current situation. I mean healthcare, housing, homeless, roads etc. I don't understand why so many people just accept the situation and dismiss any attempt to change by just saying where will you get the money or that there is nothing that can be done! but that is so wrong, people that achieve great things are the people who say how can we improve this? And work towards the goals instead of just giving up and accepting the situation. I will never understand this, why we as a nation do not want changes to happen or just give some excuse as to why it cannot be done, when we should be saying how it can be done. Just disappointed with the current situation in our country and that nothing is being done, same situation in France would likely cause rioting. For people saying that it is unreasonable please visit other European countries and have a look for yourself. We should be constantly looking to improve instead of just accepting the situation. Maybe that is in our culture so people will not understand me and will try to subtly insult me in various ways instead of giving arguments.

Why would you want some gobshíte who promises a revolution when the country functions better than 99% of the other countries on the planet? Be happy with what you have, stop having revolutionary notions.

Take the summer off and go lead a revolution in Malawi if you really need to get it out of your system.

AnGaelach · 23-12-2016 09:43AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Politically speaking Ireland is a corrupt cesspit. There are literally no options for the voters and no way to change this. We have the two establishment parties, Labour, Sinn Fein and then a mishmash of the bad and the worse.

The two establishment parties are the exact same with except for in name. Labour tried to become a third establishment party and abandoned its ethos to do so. Sinn Fein still have the troubles hanging over them. So politically we are screwed. What options are there?? Most people can't afford to take days off work to protest because every penny is a prisoner to people who work. Rising up on a Saturday or Sunday is pointless because the Dail is empty,

What would you suggest to change the status quo??

If you're convinced there's room for change in Ireland politically, why not start your own? Or should everyone else have to do the hard work for you?

weldoninhio · 23-12-2016 09:47AM

AH answer: Coz I like it, I like it, i like it, I like it. I l-l-l-like it, l-l-l-like it.

mb30 · 23-12-2016 09:47AM

sher it's grand lad relax €188 a week, yer rent paid on the rent allowance, a medical card for free health care go have a check up (weekly to ensure good health) or have yer teeth whitened if yer feeling bored, stop working and you'll have a great life on the gravy train. Oh and the christmas bonus :-)

Rumpy Pumpy · 23-12-2016 09:49AM

AnGaelach wrote: »

If you're convinced there's room for change in Ireland politically, why not start your own? Or should everyone else have to do the hard work for you?

There's an alphabet of political parties on the left to vote for. It's not the fault of the electorate that these parties are always splitting - disagreeing over your interpretation of a book written by a beardy German 170 years ago seems to be more important to them than trying to broaden their appeal. We had Renua in the last election who flopped spectacularly. The PDs were a bit of a force for a time but also got shafted by the electorate after going into government.

bbbaldy · 23-12-2016 09:51AM

AnGaelach wrote:

If you're convinced there's room for change in Ireland politically, why not start your own? Or should everyone else have to do the hard work for you?[/quote

So you have to start a political movement to have an opinion now.

whisky_galore · 23-12-2016 09:52AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Politically speaking Ireland is a corrupt cesspit. There are literally no options for the voters and no way to change this. We have the two establishment parties, Labour, Sinn Fein and then a mishmash of the bad and the worse.

I think you will find we are in the ha'penny place in the corruption index if you consider certain Arabic, African and Asian countries and a hell of a lot more stable.

AnGaelach · 23-12-2016 09:54AM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

There's an alphabet of political parties on the left to vote for. It's not the fault of the electorate that these parties are always splitting - disagreeing over your interpretation of a book written by a beardy German 170 years ago seems to be more important to them than trying to broaden their appeal. We had Renua in the last election who flopped spectacularly. The PDs were a bit of a force for a time but also got shafted by the electorate after going into government.

They did run on quite a strange platform at their last election though, "Left Government? No thanks" hardly has any catchy ring to it.

bbbaldy wrote: »

So you have to start a political movement to have an opinion now.

Backseat whingers are irritating in their self-righteous laziness. They know better than everyone, yet the most you'll get from them is apathy.

bbbaldy · 23-12-2016 09:57AM

whisky_galore wrote:

I think you will find we are in the ha'penny place in the corruption index if you consider certain Arabic, African and Asian countries and a hell of a lot more stable.

We should compare ourselves against other eu countries. Then you will find that we are way behind in many ways. Not just our politicians.
Are we proud that we are better than Ghana.

AnGaelach · 23-12-2016 10:00AM

bbbaldy wrote: »

We should compare ourselves against other eu countries. Then you will find that we are way behind in many ways. Not just our politicians.

What other EU countries are better than us exactly? Compare them with the average tax they pay in those countries vs here and what they get out of it.

Why do Irish people accept status quo?

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