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The Hazards of Belief

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A mother describes losing her son to ISIS.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37973246


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    A mother describes losing her son to ISIS.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37973246
    Its poignant and sad. But I think the article glosses over the fact that her son wasn't just "lost to ISIS"; he was ideologically a part of ISIS, even before he left the UK. Technically, he was lost to a coalition drone strike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/public-perception-of-muslim-numbers-in-europe-higher-than-reality-1.2906334
    Public perception of Muslim numbers in Europe higher than reality

    The public perception of the number of Muslims living in European countries including the Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium, is much higher than the reality, according to a new international survey by pollsters, Ipsos Mori.

    The mistaken perception plays into public debate on a range of contentious issues such as immigration, social welfare, employment and security, and increases the popular pressure on governments to modify their policies in response.

    The survey of 40 countries, entitled Perils of Perception 2016, shows that in the Netherlands, where immigration will be a hot topic in the March general election, the average estimate is that Muslims make up 19 per cent of the population – whereas the reality is just 6 per cent.

    At the same time, the average public perception among the Dutch is that the Muslim population will grow to 26 percent by 2020 – while official estimates say the real figure will be 6.9 percent, less than one-third of the figure most people anticipate.

    The survey shows that the widest gap between perception and reality is in France, where presidential elections next April and May are expected to lead to gains for the anti-immigrant National Front.

    There, the public perception is that Muslims account for 31 percent of the population, whereas the reality is 7.5 percent. By 2020, most people believe that will have risen to 40 percent, whereas the real figure is expected to be 8.3 percent.

    That problem of perception is replicated in Germany, Belgium and Italy, as well as in the UK and US.

    In Germany, where chancellor Angela Merkel opened the gates to migrants from Iraq and Syria, the perception of Muslims as a proportion of the population is 21 per cent, while the reality is 5 per cent.

    In Belgium, which has become a major source of violent jihadists, the perception is 23 per cent while the reality is 7 per cent. And in Italy, the perceived figure is 20 per cent and the actual figure 3.7 per cent.

    In the UK, respondents put the current Muslim population at 15 per cent, three times the actual 4.8 per cent figure – and by 2020 expect that to have increased to 22 per cent, whereas the reality is expected to be 6.1 per cent.

    And in the US – where president-elect Donald Trump has suggested a ban on immigration by Muslims – the perceived Muslim population at home is put at 17 per cent, as against an actual figure of just 1 per cent.

    The perception in the US is that the Muslim population will reach 23 per cent by 2020, whereas official forecasts say the real 2020 figure will be 1.1 per cent.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    reminds me I remember seeing a headline that in a survey Americans thought ~15% of the population was gay. With overestimating Muslims there is a bit of the "near far away" about it , if you live in a European city they might well have to live their life in a city which is approaching 20% and some are even higher so its your reality. where European governments need to give a steer is what their long term policy is and be clear about long term robust projection of what the Muslim population will be in a particular country in 20,50 or 100 years even and have clear discussions over it.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    silverharp wrote: »
    where European governments need to give a steer is what their long term policy is and be clear about long term robust projection of what the Muslim population will be in a particular country in 20,50 or 100 years even and have clear discussions over it.
    Like they do with all the other religions?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Absolam wrote: »
    Like they do with all the other religions?

    cute!

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    silverharp wrote: »
    cute!

    My mom thinks so too! :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Vacancy available for universityseminary president, excellent salary and benefits, catholic priests only need apply.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/st-patrick-s-college-in-maynooth-seeks-new-president-1.2907832
    The new president at the college should be a “Roman Catholic priest who is in good standing and over 35 years of age”, the advertisement says.
    It is also “desirable” he have a “doctorate and licentiate in Catholic theology or biblical studies or canon law or philosophy or ecclesiastical history; a qualification or experience in ministerial formation or other relevant experience; and, experience in human/estate/resource management.” Closing date for receipt of applications is January 25th.

    Would have thought the age stipulation was entirely superfluous...

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    There are probably a few candidates on the gaydar, but are they sufficiently "doctrinally rigid" and of "good standing" :pac:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    For some reason the IT has printed another piece by that gobshite from Barely Alive!

    Our world is dominated by an aimless secularist view of life
    With secularism now being made Ireland’s unofficial State religion, we need to ask...
    ...does he even know what the word means... It only gets worse from there.


    If this isn't bad enough, Vincent "Atheism Kills" Twomey was in the other day as well, usual crap about abortion not really worth anyone's time reading, but I took one for the team as it were. Main "point" - empathy for the difficulties of women in crisis pregnancy is an emotive argument (but "teh poor baybees" isn't, obv) Oh, and the bible really is a source of objective morality, thou shalt not kill, so there. The end.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,180 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    You feel that you would like to respond, then realise that there is absolutely no point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,172 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    It's like reading through ten drive-by posts by a certain Gaelgoir monk on this site, swiping at the latest progress in society and eulogising the RCC's iron fist.

    TL;DR his prose is torturous. He almost made me miss John Waters.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Shock! Horror! More Shock!

    The Daily Mail reports that students of Theology at the University of Glasgow have been provided with trigger warnings for a course on the bible:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4089302/index.html

    For good measure, the article also includes the terms "generation snowflake", "entitled millenials" and, of course, our old favourite, "politically correct".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    robindch wrote: »
    Shock! Horror! More Shock!

    The Daily Mail reports that students of Theology at the University of Glasgow have been provided with trigger warnings for a course on the bible:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4089302/index.html

    For good measure, the article also includes the terms "generation snowflake", "entitled millenials" and, of course, our old favourite, "politically correct".

    that genuinely would have made a great Onion article a few years back.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I don't think the concept 'triggering' actually exists outside of articles giving out about how the left love it. No idea what it's supposed to mean.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I don't think the concept 'triggering' actually exists outside of articles giving out about how the left love it.
    The concept does exist outside of the right-wing media, but - in my experience at least - it's important or relevant only for a tiny, tiny number of individuals. One person in my case, and that was the admittedly extreme example of Rebecca Watson whom I met some years back.

    But outside of the private and peculiar world of the right-wing media, the tabloids, and the tiny number of individuals who provide them both with material, the concept of "triggering" is as useful as a jellyfish in a spaceship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,180 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    It is possible to be 'triggered' -- I had a situation where an emotional 'trigger' sparked a pre-existing condition and put me in hospital, to my surprise. I am not a 'fragile' personality but I was under a considerable amount of stress for various reasons and a chance and entirely innocent comment by someone set up an astonishing instant link in my thoughts and tripped a heart condition, all within a few moments. It had never happened before and has not happened since, but it was a very strange sensation.

    I do not think this business of 'being triggered' should be indulged though, it is not necessary in the vast majority of cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I think the term now just means mock shock, Ive heard my son use it a few times with his online buddies. the reason it hit the news was that "Trigger warnings " were starting to appear in some university material and there issues about students being able to pass a course while being exempted from covering all parts of the course. On the face of it worth discussing regardless of how rare it might have been happening?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    Yeah, the alt-right really have devalued a real mental health term in pursuit of discrediting anyone who disagrees with them.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    looksee wrote: »
    It is possible to be 'triggered' -- I had a situation where an emotional 'trigger' sparked a pre-existing condition and put me in hospital, to my surprise. I am not a 'fragile' personality but I was under a considerable amount of stress for various reasons and a chance and entirely innocent comment by someone set up an astonishing instant link in my thoughts and tripped a heart condition, all within a few moments. It had never happened before and has not happened since, but it was a very strange sensation.
    Interesting and surprising (and a little shocking).

    What you're describing seems similar to descriptions of post traumatic stress disorder. Do you feel that this comparison is appropriate?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,180 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    robindch wrote: »
    Interesting and surprising (and a little shocking).

    What you're describing seems similar to descriptions of post traumatic stress disorder. Do you feel that this comparison is appropriate?

    I don't know, it is possible I suppose. It was all extremely complicated but it 'warned' me and I (and time and events) have dealt with it to an extent that I doubt it would happen again. I think actual ptsd would not be as controllable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    robindch wrote: »
    Interesting and surprising (and a little shocking).

    What you're describing seems similar to descriptions of post traumatic stress disorder. Do you feel that this comparison is appropriate?
    Triggering is a common manifestation of PTSD. Which is not to say that everyone who suffers from PTSD can be triggered, or that everyone who experiences triggering has suffered PTSD. But there is a definite correlation, and incidences of triggering are one of the things psychiatrists look for when considering a diagnosis of PTSD.

    I suspect what's going on here is that many people think (and are encouraged to think) that many (or all) people who say they are "triggered" are merely feeling uncomfortable emotions. And I also suspect it's possible that some people who feel uncomfortable use the term "triggered" to describe this, in much the way that some people who don't have what clinicians would categorise as an allergy use "allergic" to describe their reactions to something.

    But, yeah, triggering is a real thing and, yes, it is associated with PTSD.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Oops should have said I'm aware of the psychological use, by concept I meant the trivial way it's used recently, normally meaning causing someone to be uncomfortable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I Don't know if this can be classes as an Ecumenical matter but its kind of amusing

    http://www.christiantoday.com/article/bishop.michael.nazir.ali.condemns.koran.reading.at.anglican.cathedral.epiphany.service/103716.htm

    Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali Condemns Koran Reading At Anglican Cathedral Epiphany Service

    Christians are familiar with the Bible texts that detail the conception and birth of Jesus to His mother, the Virgin Mary.




    But they are not so used to hearing the Muslim version of the story read out in church. And especially not on Epiphany, which celebrates the incarnation of God as His son Jesus - a doctrine denied by Muslims.

    Michael Nazir-Ali, a leading evangelical Christian in Britain, has now condemned the reading on a service at the Scottish Episcopal Church's Glasgow Cathedral last Friday.

    The congregation at St Mary's cathedral heard the Muslim version of the Virgin Mary's conception of Jesus, from the Koran's Sura 19, sung by Madinah Javed. The passage explains how Mary gave birth after an angel told her God would give her a child.

    Sura 19 states that Mary was "ashamed" after she gave birth, and that the infant Jesus miraculously spoke to her from his crib and claimed he was "a servant of God".

    It denies Jesus was the Son of God.

    A post on the cathedral's Facebook page describes the service as a "wonderful event".

    It ays: "The congregation was also reminded during the service that it is not only Christians who give honour to Jesus. We were joined by friends from two local Muslim communities." The post also shares a video of the recitation.

    But Nazir-Ali, former Bishop of Rochester condemned the reading and called for discipline against those involved.

    "The authorities of the Scottish Episcopal Church should immediately repudiate this ill-advised invitation," he said in a statement.

    He also called for the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, to publicly distance the Church of England and the wider Anglican Communion from the event.

    " Christians should know what their fellow citizens believe and this can include reading the Qur'an for themselves, whether in the original or in translation. This is not, however, the same thing as having it read in Church in the context of public worship," he said.

    "It is particularly insensitive to have this passage read in Church on the Feast of the Epiphany when we celebrate not only Christ's manifestation to the gentiles but also his baptism and the divine declaration, 'you are my beloved son in whom I am well pleased'."



    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The fact that Nazir Ali is a Pakistani adds extra irony to it :)
    I'm sure those that supported bringing a little bit of Islam into the church felt quite smug afterwards, with that warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that they are among the most super-tolerant of liberal multiculturalists. Unlike that Pakistani guy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    recedite wrote: »
    The fact that Nazir Ali is a Pakistani adds extra irony to it :)
    I'm sure those that supported bringing a little bit of Islam into the church felt quite smug afterwards, with that warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that they are among the most super-tolerant of liberal multiculturalists. Unlike that Pakistani guy.

    the zeal of a convert? :D

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    silverharp wrote: »
    the zeal of a convert? :D
    Or just somebody who actually knows what Sharia and Islam are all about, and had hoped he had got away from them.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Yesterday, NetFlix released a new documentary named "Hostage to the Devil" about the Kerry priest, author and prominent exorcist, Malachi Martin:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/i-have-smelt-the-breath-of-satan-the-story-of-a-co-kerry-exorcist-1.2936003

    Anybody seen it/have plans to see it?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    Anybody seen it/have plans to see it?
    Not really, but the guy himself was an interesting character, and wrote the original book.
    One thing the RCC was good at was picking out an intelligent kid from a relatively banal or farming background and propelling them into an international academic world. De Valera also benefited from this process.

    So Martin was tutored in theology, philosophy, several languages and archaeology by the Jesuits, and was sent to exotic locations.

    He seems to have realised that poverty and chastity were not the top priorities for some at the top of the RCC hierarchy. I suspect that in 1965 he outgrew the priesthood. He became a dishwasher, at first, but obviously that was not a sufficiently interesting career for this guy, and he had something else in mind.
    Once a priest, always a priest; the magical process cannot be reversed. However, Martin seems to have worked out a way to use Canon Law within the system in such a way that he could be his own man, retaining certain advantages of being a priest while ditching the disadvantages.

    Thus he officially withdrew from all normal duties, vows of poverty, and vows of obedience to the Jesuit order. It seems he had realised that withdrawing from vows of chastity was not actually necessary, provided that discretion was observed. At this point he was free to embark on a lucrative new career, relieving wealthy Americans of their excess money...


This discussion has been closed.
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