El Presidente Trump

Yourself isit · 18-12-2016 05:07PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Uggh, the worst legacy of 2016 is the rise of fake news. It's a goddamn pestilence.

The rise of the Fake News meme is itself Fake News.

Renegade Mechanic · 18-12-2016 05:10PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Uggh, the worst legacy of 2016 is the rise of fake news. It's a goddamn pestilence.

Lol, most news is various twists of bull****. Always has been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMtxbPdvzg

It's just become more obvious/people got more aware.

Hank Scorpio · 18-12-2016 05:33PM

I see Breitbart get labeled as fake news often when it's a far right conservative site. How is it any different than CNN which is far left? Info wars I get but I still think people should have freedom of speech and if that attracts an audience then so be it. Alex Jones is more of an entertainer/conspiracy theorist rather than someone to get your daily news from.

The internet has always been a cesspool of garbage with a few exceptions. The term fake news has been created as a counter reaction of the bias shown by the elite left wing media and the loss of faith by the American public. NYT, Washington Post, CNN, msNBC being the worst offenders. They need a way to get their audience back and are losing relations from the hammering they gave Trump. I never thought it would get to censorship but that's what has happened. A Bill was passed by Hillary or whoever a few days after the election to force feed MSM through social media sites like facebook.

It is pretty disingenuous and in reality going to limit free speech, and in turn, hammer the smaller independent news sites which may be in many cases more accurate/unbiased than the juggernauts like CNN. It's the first major step I think to control the news people see, besides googles somewhat biased sorting of news stories.

Billy86 · 18-12-2016 05:35PM

The left equivalent to Breitbart is not CNN, Occupy Democrats or Mother Jones would be far closer in that sense.

Hank Scorpio · 18-12-2016 05:38PM

Billy86 wrote: »

The left equivalent to Breitbart is not CNN, Occupy Democrats or Mother Jones would be far closer in that sense.

Never heard of them. I heard of Vox, it seemed far left from the two times I might have clicked on them.

HellSquirrel · 18-12-2016 05:38PM

Yeah, but it has been actually happening and more loudly than usual lately. One can blame "the media" or whatever, but people were deliberately sitting down and writing absolutely donkey-sucking bollocks and feeding it out to people. Hell, a number of them have blatantly admitted it!

How big its impact was on the election is all debatable, but there's no point saying that it didn't happen. It did. It still is. I've run into it before regarding climate change and vaccination, but it's actually alarming just how bad it's been now. At least with the first two, anyone -can- do their research on it. Chemistry and physics remain chemistry and physics no matter how much someone doesn't want them to. But people are more difficult and don't follow natural laws. That makes finding the real truth far more laborious.

Yourself isit · 18-12-2016 05:42PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Yeah, but it has been actually happening and more loudly than usual lately. One can blame "the media" or whatever, but people were deliberately sitting down and writing absolutely donkey-sucking bollocks and feeding it out to people. Hell, a number of them have blatantly admitted it!

How big its impact was on the election is all debatable, but there's no point saying that it didn't happen. It did. It still is. I've run into it before regarding climate change and vaccination, but it's actually alarming just how bad it's been now. At least with the first two, anyone -can- do their research on it. Chemistry and physics remain chemistry and physics no matter how much someone doesn't want them to. But people are more difficult and don't follow natural laws. That makes finding the real truth far more laborious.

It's been a year of fake news alright. Corbyn the anti-Semite. Moderate Syrian rebels. The fetishing of the white helmets. Russia and trump. Russia and hacking. The attacks on Google for just auto completing common terms. And much more.

Hank Scorpio · 18-12-2016 05:48PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Yeah, but it has been actually happening and more loudly than usual lately. One can blame "the media" or whatever, but people were deliberately sitting down and writing absolutely donkey-sucking bollocks and feeding it out to people. Hell, a number of them have blatantly admitted it!

How big its impact was on the election is all debatable, but there's no point saying that it didn't happen. It did. It still is. I've run into it before regarding climate change and vaccination, but it's actually alarming just how bad it's been now. At least with the first two, anyone -can- do their research on it. Chemistry and physics remain chemistry and physics no matter how much someone doesn't want them to. But people are more difficult and don't follow natural laws. That makes finding the real truth far more laborious.

Yeah I agree, it got pretty bad

I do think it became a form of counter propaganda, the harder they hammered Trump and wouldn't let up , the more fake news stories started coming out with people believing it because hey, if we can't trust the big news outlets, we might as well trust the internet stories? :eek:

Trump called the media out too, every rally he would call them dishonest, that certainly had a big effect on what happened. I'm pretty sure if he told his supporters at a rally to jump over a bridge they'd do it :pac:
In fairness to him, he did have a point. The coverage and how the reporters tried to trap him wasn't really an even playing field and it just got more and more vicious as the election went on.

darkpagandeath · 18-12-2016 05:57PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Lol, most news is various twists of bull****. Always has been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMtxbPdvzg

It's just become more obvious/people got more aware.

If it's on YT it must be True....

Igotadose · 18-12-2016 06:00PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

In fairness to him, he did have a point. The coverage and how the reporters tried to trap him wasn't really an even playing field and it just got more and more vicious as the election went on.

Is that why he hectored against them and encouraged violence? And kept them in 'press areas' subject to harassment? The coverage that included billions in free coverage, not even bothering to see if he was present to show empty podiums during the primaries, and on and on.

Have you seen where his slimy lapdog Priebus said they might not have daily press conferences and that Trump might not meet with the press in person?

Press rolled over for Trump and didn't nearly do enough to counter the lies and keep him on issues rather than soundbites. Faux Noise was an endless source of lies and deflections, lapped up by Trumplodytes.

He had no plan for the economy, or peace, or growth. But he had a plan to keep his name on everyone's lips 24x7, is why he won. Nothing he's done since winning has shown me anything remotely resembling the abilities needed in a President. His laziness and stupidity come out every day, the malapropisms and misspellings - guess what, when you're President, the bar's higher. Skipping intelligence briefings - someone'll take care of that for him, uh-huh. Going after Vanity Fair because they panned some restaurant.

And do you think he had any idea that taking a call from the PM of Taiwan might not have been a good idea? That'd have required thinking. I suppose Bannon or Alex Jones told him it was o.k.. Thinking.. .never Trump's strong suit. The guys a dunce.

Can't wait till the first indictments come in against his cabinet secretaries in a year or so. Hopefully some of them don't get confirmed, there's a slight majority of tGOP in the Senate, plus Pence, that should be enough even to confirm the likes of Tillerson and Perry.

Billy86 · 18-12-2016 06:02PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Never heard of them. I heard of Vox, it seemed far left from the two times I might have clicked on them.

http://www.occupydemocrats.com should give you a bit of an idea.
http://addictinginfo.org/ is another.

This is a pretty good rundown, imo: http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/News-Quality.jpg

Hank Scorpio · 18-12-2016 06:07PM

@Igotadose

Respect your opinion but to call him a dunce is a bit harsh. Nobody gave him a chance even in the primaries.

Do you think intellectually George W Bush is smarter than Trump?

HellSquirrel · 18-12-2016 06:23PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Yeah I agree, it got pretty bad

I do think it became a form of counter propaganda, the harder they hammered Trump and wouldn't let up , the more fake news stories started coming out with people believing it because hey, if we can't trust the big news outlets, we might as well trust the internet stories? :eek:

Trump called the media out too, every rally he would call them dishonest, that certainty had a big effect on what happened. I'm pretty sure if he told his supporters at a rally to jump over a bridge they'd do it :pac:
In fairness to him, he did have a point. The coverage and how the reporters tried to trap him wasn't really an even playing field and it just got more and more vicious as the election went on.

I do agree to some extent, but I do have a slightly different reading on it. At the start, it appeared to me that they were focusing on Trump as the sorta loony outside candidate. No-one expected him to get anywhere. And he did keep saying such deliciously nutty things. The media thrives first and foremost on controversy. So he did get a surprising amount of airtime compared to the rest of the ridiculously large Republican field.

It was only once he was nominated - well, no, he'd get occasionally flattened regarding some of his more egregious comments - but it was only by the time he was suddenly a serious contender that the media - in my view - woke up and realised what they were contributing to and dived off in the opposite direction. Maybe too much so, because having raised this guy to prominent attention, they were now criticising everything he said. Now, personally, I think it bloody well needed to be criticised. But I suspect it raised some hackles at this apparent about-face.

Professor Moriarty · 18-12-2016 06:24PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

@Igotadose

Respect your opinion but to call him a dunce is a bit harsh. Nobody gave him a chance even in the primaries.

Do you think intellectually George W Bush is smarter than Trump?

Have you seen Dumb and Dumber to?

HellSquirrel · 18-12-2016 06:30PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

@Igotadose

Respect your opinion but to call him a dunce is a bit harsh. Nobody gave him a chance even in the primaries.

Do you think intellectually George W Bush is smarter than Trump?

I suspect (sorry, I know that wasn't to me, but I've been mulling the pair of them for a few days) that Bush is not the most well-endowed man in the brains department, BUT he cut his teeth on politics given his family. He may not have been the most naturally talented of the family and I do think he was well out of his depth as president (but I will give him credit for his immediate reaction to 9/11, that was courageously done). Trump is also not particularly intelligent, although he has a certain smart cunning when it comes to his own advantage - and that's been heightened by his business dealings, which mostly benefit himself first and anyone else a distant second - but he doesn't have the benefit of being brought up knowing that X is a thing that shouldn't be changed and Y is a thing that can be changed. He doesn't have the -knowledge-, but whether he has the basic ability ("intelligence"?) to pick it up is irrelevant if he won't try and work at it. Which...he seems unwilling or unable to do.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-12-2016 06:31PM

HellSquirrel wrote:

Yeah, but it has been actually happening and more loudly than usual lately. One can blame "the media" or whatever, but people were deliberately sitting down and writing absolutely donkey-sucking bollocks and feeding it out to people. Hell, a number of them have blatantly admitted it!

It exists alright. Its an extreme form of making money from clicks. They found fake news gets clicks as often as actual entertainment and more often than real news (boring by comparison). According to some research I heard about, 70% of people who could recall a fake news story, also believe it was true.

A quirk of fake news is that people who can tell the difference between real news and fake news, were less likely to click on it. So less educated or more credulous people became the target audience. Negative stories got more clicks than positive stories. Sensational stories about Clinton were more likely to get clicks than stories about Trump.

It 'evolved' to be tailored: towards the people who were less able to tell the difference between real news and fake news, and negative stories about Clinton got most clicks. So they made up stories to suit the market and get clicks.

The people in Macedonia making the stories didn't care about politics. They were just doing their job.

Hank Scorpio · 18-12-2016 06:32PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Have you seen Dumb and Dumber to?

No... Thankfully.

First is a classic though.

Forgot about Jeb! , what a mess.

ebbsy · 18-12-2016 06:43PM

Stupid people list.

1 Media

2 Democrats

3 Celebs

4 16 other Republican candidates.

5 Pollsters

Trump is smarter than the lot of them. Which is not saying much.

Renegade Mechanic · 18-12-2016 07:31PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If it's on YT it must be True....

Very few things on YT are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE

Professor Moriarty · 18-12-2016 09:15PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

No... Thankfully.

First is a classic though.

Forgot about Jeb! , what a mess.

Yeah, they jumped the shark with the second.

Lest we forget:

Igotadose · 19-12-2016 08:46AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

@Igotadose

Respect your opinion but to call him a dunce is a bit harsh. Nobody gave him a chance even in the primaries.

Do you think intellectually George W Bush is smarter than Trump?

Actually, I do. Bush wasn't the brightest penny in the wallet - but he could, on occasion, string a coherent sentence together and make sense.

I know, I know, Trump's not a professional politician is one defense, but if he really IS this highly successful businessman due to his own ingenuity and hard work, rather than inheritence and slimy tax strategies, he should be a fine public speaker. Bill Gates is. Mark Cuban is. So is Warren Buffet. Trump? He's practically incoherent when he speaks. Has he yet to write an editorial for a newspaper in his entire career, spelling out his opinion on anything? Nah. Someone does that for him. Can't wait till the first State of the Union where he tells us how bigly he is or whatever those words are he's inventing.

The guys a figurehead, as was Bush and Obama. They're tools for their parties. Bush's handlers, chiefly Cheney and Koch Brothers, were war-mongering profiteers and did well for themselves.
Obama's were unions, middle-class advocates and anti-war progressives.

Trumps are the corporations; with Bush, the US became wholly owned by multinational corporations. Obama didn't improve this. Trump is tied even closer and so far his corporate backers have filled his cabinet with kleptocrats like Puzder and Perry.

Trump as a person is odious - it still amazes me any women at all voted for Trump, their lives are going to get worse with him in charge and I don't care if he's appointing Nikki Haley to the UN or Cathy McMorris Rodgers, so what. His handlers want women back in the kitchen and out of the workforce and they'll work tirelessly over the next few years to do that.

Today's the day that the election officially ends. My expectation is maybe 10 electoral votes shift away from Trump, some to Clinton, some to whoever.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-12-2016 09:03AM

HellSquirrel wrote:

Trump is also not particularly intelligent, although he has a certain smart cunning when it comes to his own advantage - and that's been heightened by his business dealings, which mostly benefit himself first and anyone else a distant second - but he doesn't have the benefit of being brought up knowing that X is a thing that shouldn't be changed and Y is a thing that can be changed. He doesn't have the -knowledge-, but whether he has the basic ability ("intelligence"?) to pick it up is irrelevant if he won't try and work at it. Which...he seems unwilling or unable to do.

Trump is extremely intelligent he just doesn't care about proving it to anyone else. The strikes an elaborate deal with lots of people in position. Everyone has been promised prizes. Then the deal goes south and almost nobody gets paid - except Trump. People say trump is stupid because he allowed the deal to go south. In actual fact it makes no difference whether he gets paid by the deal going well or badly. He gets paid.

Other people attribute stupidity when he was just stringing them along to begin with.

It's an elaborate con trick. He uses people's greed to blind them. He gets them in position to benefit him. He benefits.

If you ever wonder why he's so comfortable being thought of as a fool, it's because it's preferable to the truth which is being known as a conman

HellSquirrel · 19-12-2016 09:13AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Trump is extremely intelligent he just doesn't care about proving it to anyone else. The strikes an elaborate deal with lots of people in position. Everyone has been promised prizes. Then the deal goes south and almost nobody gets paid - except Trump. People say trump is stupid because he allowed the deal to go south. In actual fact it makes no difference whether he gets paid by the deal going well or badly. He gets paid.

Other people attribute stupidity when he was just stringing them along to begin with.

It's an elaborate con trick. He uses people's greed to blind them. He gets them in position to benefit him. He benefits.

If you ever wonder why he's so comfortable being thought of as a fool, it's because it's preferable to the truth which is being known as a conman

Tbh, I'd call that cunning over intelligence. An intelligent man would realise that this is no place for games. An intelligent and honourable man wouldn't even try it. He may win in the short term, but everyone, including himself, will lose out in the long-term. Maybe he doesn't care about that, but it seems deeply foolish to me, even if I get your point as to his aims.

Although he does care what people think of him - look how he goes on ad nauseum about how smart he is, how high is IQ is, how generally amazing he is and gets really bolshy if people don't agree with him! If he fcuks this up as much as he's looking to, I wonder how he'll deal with the recriminations?

El_Duderino 09 · 19-12-2016 05:36PM

HellSquirrel wrote:

Tbh, I'd call that cunning over intelligence. An intelligent man would realise that this is no place for games. An intelligent and honourable man wouldn't even try it. He may win in the short term, but everyone, including himself, will lose out in the long-term. Maybe he doesn't care about that, but it seems deeply foolish to me, even if I get your point as to his aims.

I get you but it doesn't really matter if it's cunning or intelligence that he used to win the election.

You're trying to think like a person with empathy and similar aims to you. His aims are power and control. He's 70 and at the top of his game. It's infuriating to think he has the most powerful position in the world.

HellSquirrel wrote:

Although he does care what people think of him - look how he goes on ad nauseum about how smart he is, how high is IQ is, how generally amazing he is and gets really bolshy if people don't agree with him! If he fcuks this up as much as he's looking to, I wonder how he'll deal with the recriminations?

This is where people keep missing his approach. When he say 'im the best at X'. You think that statement is the prelude to an argument, but for some people that's a strong enough message to create a belief that he actually is the best at X. The funny quirk of psychology is that people will assume he's exaggerating a bit, but still think he's in the top few at X.

When he gets annoyed at people he goes from zero to super aggressive and making threats in a second -that's what I keep hearing from people who have experienced it. That's just showing aggression rather than actually getting annoyed- that's just my opinion.

What's not just opinion ion is that he dumbed his message down and relied on emotion rather than actually argument. I think he also used basic emotional cues like aggression. Not just to attack his opponents but also to show the people that aggression. Politicians are so emotionally controlled and hard to make any connection with. Trump making an emotional appeal to people also helped.

I don't think he ever lost his cool on the campaign trail. I think the outbursts were more more than uncontrolled anger. Closest he came to losing his cool was with the crying baby.

Hank Scorpio · 19-12-2016 08:53PM

Looks like really few electors changed their vote, there was a democrat who voted for Bernie Sanders but was forced to change back to Hillary.

http://www.270towin.com/live-2016-presidential-election-vote-of-electors/

Trump is at 241 with 179 votes pending. .Texas votes are coming in the next few minutes so that should put him at 270

Renegade Mechanic · 19-12-2016 09:41PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Looks like really few electors changed their vote, there was a democrat who voted for Bernie Sanders but was forced to change back to Hillary.

http://www.270towin.com/live-2016-presidential-election-vote-of-electors/

Trump is at 241 with 179 votes pending. .Texas votes are coming in the next few minutes so that should put him at 270

I'll be honest, I was expecting a different outcome. Wasn't going to put it past them not to "save the country from tyranny"

ebbsy · 19-12-2016 09:46PM

I would like to give my vote for MUPPET of the year to Michael Moore.

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2016 09:57PM

ebbsy wrote: »

I would like to give my vote for MUPPET of the year to Michael Moore.

Why would you give away an award you worked so hard for ?

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2016 10:02PM

BREAKING: WA Electoral college presidential results: 8 votes Hillary Clinton, 3 votes Colin Powell, 1 "Faith Spotted Eagle"

That last person is a Native American.

No wonder Trump can win if you have people who treat it as a joke involved.

PopePalpatine · 19-12-2016 10:06PM

ebbsy wrote: »

I would like to give my vote for MUPPET of the year to Michael Moore.

He predicted Trump's win. Let me guess, this is just because he's to the left of Pinochet and won't slink off into exile. :rolleyes:

El Presidente Trump

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