Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

finisklin · 18-12-2016 08:31PM

PressRun wrote: »

Is it now?

In fairness one Sindo journalist calling out another?

Don't think so.

That would be off the ball

Green Peter · 18-12-2016 08:40PM

i got the feeling they also had a cut at the supporters club and financiers, it seems there are a lot of people who want a say in picking the team other than management, this is the beginning of the end for this team, Galway are on the rise and will probably do what they did in 98 in the next few years and sicken Mayo again!

seligehgit · 18-12-2016 08:55PM

PressRun wrote: »

Is it now?

Of course it's not,it's a Sindo journalist opinion piece that I thought my fellow boardsies might be interested in perusing.There are two sides to every story.The players may well have not wished to inflict too great of distress on Connelly and Holmes but I am sure there are still great pangs of hurt and resentment on their part.

The kitchen is really getting hot in here and the episode continues to divide the Mayo GAA public.As I've stated a level of introspection is required by all within Mayo GAA,ultimately real player power if permitted will continue to be a contributory factor in the team's inability to win the big prize.

Anyway roll on 2017 and the FBD.

Kristopherus · 18-12-2016 09:01PM

finisklin wrote: »

Cunniffe voted to oust them in the first instance and he now has a change of mind. Stirring this and smugly proclaiming that he won't be donning a Mayo jersey again.

Where was his conscience and sense of balance/fairness at the vote?

Something not right with that either.

Are you sure he did? IIRC he was asked if he agreed with the result of the vote and he said he felt he had to go with the majority.

seligehgit · 18-12-2016 09:05PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Are you sure he did? IIRC he was asked if he agreed with the result of the vote and he said he felt he had to go with the majority.

No I believe he voted with the majority without question.

Robeman · 18-12-2016 09:32PM

What is all the fuss about now. The vast majority of the stuff in the article was mentioned by me back in October. This was first time "EGOS" in Mayo panel were mentioned. You read it here first folks and some of you got me banned.

Go back and read my posts for a better understanding.

So much for integrity of this board

PressRun · 18-12-2016 09:37PM

seligehgit wrote: »

I am sure there are still great pangs of hurt and resentment on their part.

I still have great pangs of hurt and resentment over things Holmes and Connelly did while in charge as do many of the players, I'm sure. Sure there are problems to resolve but those problems should be resolved in house and not through Martin Breheny of all people. Giving a completely one-sided interview that offers no context and names names and details dressing room conversations and makes insinuations that undermine Rochford are not helpful and this notion that it's for "the good of Mayo football" is complete nonsense.

Robeman · 18-12-2016 09:42PM

PressRun wrote: »

I still have great pangs of hurt and resentment over things Holmes and Connelly did while in charge as do many of the players, I'm sure. Sure there are problems to resolve but those problems should be resolved in house and not through Martin Breheny of all people. Giving a completely one-sided interview that offers no context and names names and details dressing room conversations and makes insinuations that undermine Rochford are not helpful and this notion that it's for "the good of Mayo football" is complete nonsense.

The shoe is on the other foot now. The players did not give any reason why they wanted Holmes \Connelly gone because only reason was to protect their own "egos" and their places in the panel.

The players did not even have the courage to sign the letter sent. Not one player put their signature on it. As far as I am aware there was no vote approving the letter which was drafted after vote. Question is who exactly drafted the letter.

finisklin · 18-12-2016 09:46PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Are you sure he did? IIRC he was asked if he agreed with the result of the vote and he said he felt he had to go with the majority.

See Breheny interview with Cunniffe here in the Indo from 2 weeks ago where he confirms that he voted to oust them. He had to know from the outset that this was going to be a messy process ripe with potential recriminations.

MayoAreMagic · 18-12-2016 10:02PM

Here here pressrun.
Im not one for making excuses for the players. Our lads get too much praise for winning nothing and if AOS spent half as much time thinking about improving his game as he does thinking about how is hair and beard look, he would be a far better footballer than the one trick pony he has now become.

But the tone of this interview is very biased and unfair. The part that sums it up for me is where the players are lambasted for placing the blame for not winning sam on lacking a defensive plan and poor matchups instead of looking at themselves, yet these were the very things that pundits across the board (including breheny himself) pointed out as the defining factors in big games that mayo lost in the past. It is a complete double standard - and that is how the article goes on; everything is their fault, they have thins cosy and dont want to upset the apple cart, and their management were ousted because they tried to fix it. Sorry but these guys have made all ireland finals over and over. They have pushed teams much more fancied than them to the absolute pin of their collar - sometimes even losing on the back of poor refereeing calls. Teams with such massive issues dont do that once, never mind consistantly.

The bottom line is this, 27 of the 34 players of the squad that they selected themselves, had no faith in them to do the job. That is the piece of information that matters the most yet it is the only one they havent gone into in their lenthy article. If they actually had the good of mayo football at heart, they could have delivered this message to the players in private.

The reality is the papers dont care about them or their story, they just wanted a rod for the mayo footballers backs - which is clear from the tone of the article, and these guys are so short-sighted that they didnt they were being used to that end. Furthermore, it is clear that there were personality clashes within the group, which instead of managing, they made personal. For instance, I dont see what is so wrong with alan dillon asking why an underperforming andy moran was being selected ahead of him. He has put more years than most in for mayo, surely he, being one of the most experienced players in the game, was entitled to have a conversation with the managers to that end? Those things, to me, underline that they weren't good managers and hadnt approached the job in the right manner.

I see people saying that it wouldnt happen in dublin and kerry, and they are 100% right. But the actual difference is they wouldnt have gotten the job in dublin or kerry in the first place and that is why it wouldnt happen. That is the real difference between the squads and that is the lesson for us. However, does anyone think that if dublin were taken from jim gavins setup into, what sounds like, something you would see at an u16 club squad, they wouldnt have something to say about it? No way would they take that, and proper order too. They might go about it in a better way as regards managing the press, but that is only because they have professionals advising them night and day on such things.

seligehgit · 18-12-2016 10:05PM

PressRun wrote: »

I still have great pangs of hurt and resentment over things Holmes and Connelly did while in charge as do many of the players, I'm sure. Sure there are problems to resolve but those problems should be resolved in house and not through Martin Breheny of all people. Giving a completely one-sided interview that offers no context and names names and details dressing room conversations and makes insinuations that undermine Rochford are not helpful and this notion that it's for "the good of Mayo football" is complete nonsense.

TBF the players are still playing but the management team got the sack,perhaps justifiably so.

If you are correct and the duos motives were not entirely honourable but it nonetheless leads to the weeding out of the oft rumoured player power it will have done our county a service.

PressRun · 18-12-2016 10:13PM

I agree that the players are wrapped up in cotton wool in the county and that shouldn't be the case until they win an All-Ireland. I would also have objections to how certain players use the media and I am of the belief that certain players should be dropped (and I think Rochford will do that). There is also a man on the peripherals (not a player) who should most definitely be told to back off. But that's for the county board to deal with and they don't/won't. We all heard how they treated Mickey Moran a few years ago too. Nothing's changed.

Robeman · 18-12-2016 10:30PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Here here pressrun.
Im not one for making excuses for the players. Our lads get too much praise for winning nothing and if AOS spent half as much time thinking about improving his game as he does thinking about how is hair and beard look, he would be a far better footballer than the one trick pony he has now become.

But I think the tone of this interview is very biased and unfair. The part that sums it up for me is where the players are lambasted for placing the blame for not winning sam on lacking a defensive plan and poor matchups instead of looking at themselves, yet these were the very things that pundits across the board (including breheny himself!) pointed out as the defining factors in big games that mayo lost in the past. It is a complete double standard - one of many in the piece.

The bottom line is this, 27 of the 34 players of the squad that they selected themselves, had no faith in them to do the job. That is the piece of information that matters the most yet it is the only one they havent gone into in their lenthy article. If they actually had the good of mayo football at heart, they could have delivered this message to the players in private.

The reality is the papers dont care about them or their story, they just wanted a rod for the mayo footballers backs - which is clear from the tone of the article, and these guys are so short-sighted that they didnt they were being used to that end. Furthermore, it is clear that there were personality clashes within the group, which instead of managing, they made personal. For instance, I dont see what is so wrong with alan dillon asking why an underperforming andy moran was being selected ahead of him. He has put more years than most in for mayo, surely he, being one of the most experienced players in the game, was entitled to have a conversation with the managers to that end? Those things, to me, underline that they weren't good managers and hadnt approached the job in the right manner.

I see people saying that it wouldnt happen in dublin and kerry, and they are 100% right. But the actual difference is they wouldnt have gotten the job in dublin or kerry in the first place and that is why it wouldnt happen. That is the real difference between the squads and that is the lesson for us. However, does anyone think that if dublin were taken from jim gavins setup into, what sounds like, something you would see at an u16 club squad, they wouldnt have something to say about it? No way would they take that, and proper order too. They might go about it in a better way as regards managing the press, but that is only because they have professionals advising them night and day on such things.

The players were given ample opportunity to give reason but they chose not to because there are none of substance. Finally Holmes \ Connolly give theirs and somehow it is one sided.

The great unknown is actually what the result of the vote was. The problem there is that no tellers were appointed by the meeting and votes were not publically counted. If the "Egos" were the one who called the meeting \ organised venue \ set the agenda \ decided on what to be voted on then very possible that they "organised" vote count as well. It might have been 27-7 and then again it might not have been. Only those who counted votes know the truth. We all laugh at various "Presidential" votes like those in Zimbabwe and how popular Mugabe is. Maybe Mayo player votes have the same rules.

There is nothing wrong with personality clashes or players having opinions (even inflated) on themselves so long as they accept that manager is boss.

The point I draw from article is that Alan Dillon very happy when he was on team less so when he was off it.

Upon reading another I find it very interesting to note the list of people mentioned in the article including

Alan Dillon
Seamus O Shea
Aidan O Shea
Robbie Hennelly
Keith Higgins

I wonder why these were the ones singled out.

Another name mentioned was Noel Howley. Why was he mentioned I wonder.

We don't win a lot in Mayo if fact we win so few national titles at senior level that believe it or not Pat Holmes is out most successful senior manager since 1951 having won a national league title and an under 21 title. So before belittling him less us remember that little fact.

I have no issue with SR but he has yet to manage any Mayo county team to any success but to him you can add every other Senior team manager since 1951 except Seamus Daly whom I believe managed 1970 league winning team.

koochie · 18-12-2016 10:42PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Here here pressrun.
Im not one for making excuses for the players. Our lads get too much praise for winning nothing and if AOS spent half as much time thinking about improving his game as he does thinking about how is hair and beard look, he would be a far better footballer than the one trick pony he has now become.

But the tone of this interview is very biased and unfair. The part that sums it up for me is where the players are lambasted for placing the blame for not winning sam on lacking a defensive plan and poor matchups instead of looking at themselves, yet these were the very things that pundits across the board (including breheny himself) pointed out as the defining factors in big games that mayo lost in the past. It is a complete double standard - and that is how the article goes on; everything is their fault, they have thins cosy and dont want to upset the apple cart, and their management were ousted because they tried to fix it. Sorry but these guys have made all ireland finals over and over. They have pushed teams much more fancied than them to the absolute pin of their collar - sometimes even losing on the back of poor refereeing calls. Teams with such massive issues dont do that once, never mind consistantly.

The bottom line is this, 27 of the 34 players of the squad that they selected themselves, had no faith in them to do the job. That is the piece of information that matters the most yet it is the only one they havent gone into in their lenthy article. If they actually had the good of mayo football at heart, they could have delivered this message to the players in private.

The reality is the papers dont care about them or their story, they just wanted a rod for the mayo footballers backs - which is clear from the tone of the article, and these guys are so short-sighted that they didnt they were being used to that end. Furthermore, it is clear that there were personality clashes within the group, which instead of managing, they made personal. For instance, I dont see what is so wrong with alan dillon asking why an underperforming andy moran was being selected ahead of him. He has put more years than most in for mayo, surely he, being one of the most experienced players in the game, was entitled to have a conversation with the managers to that end? Those things, to me, underline that they weren't good managers and hadnt approached the job in the right manner.

I see people saying that it wouldnt happen in dublin and kerry, and they are 100% right. But the actual difference is they wouldnt have gotten the job in dublin or kerry in the first place and that is why it wouldnt happen. That is the real difference between the squads and that is the lesson for us. However, does anyone think that if dublin were taken from jim gavins setup into, what sounds like, something you would see at an u16 club squad, they wouldnt have something to say about it? No way would they take that, and proper order too. They might go about it in a better way as regards managing the press, but that is only because they have professionals advising them night and day on such things.

The issue here is that a small cohort of players in our squad have been trying to influence management decisions. It appears that they succeeded in doing so in the most important game of this year's GAA calendar, hence we had our All Star goalkeeper keeping a seat in the stand warm whilst the big boys had there buddy between the posts.
Considering Tom Cunniffe's account of things, it is plausible to believe that the majority of players were influenced by a minority. T Cunniffe voted against H and C even tho he didn't have reason to do so. If a senior member of the squad voted against his own beliefs, can you imagine the pressure on the younger lads.

Robeman brought this player power issue to our attention many months ago and he got banned from the thread. Whatever you feel about H and C going to the press, they have confirmed what we were being told here about 8weeks ago. It seems many of us Mayo folk can't cope with self criticism and always look to the outside when things don't go our way.
The issues are there, there is no point sweeping them under the carpet. It's time to take out the full length mirrors and stop running away.

Green Peter · 18-12-2016 11:13PM

Delighted Clarke got the All Star and retired, he deserved better from teammates.

Robeman · 18-12-2016 11:17PM

Green Peter wrote: »

Delighted Clarke got the All Star and retired, he deserved better from teammates.

And team management

ProudDUB · 18-12-2016 11:18PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Here here pressrun.
I see people saying that it wouldnt happen in dublin and kerry, and they are 100% right. But the actual difference is they wouldnt have gotten the job in dublin or kerry in the first place and that is why it wouldnt happen. That is the real difference between the squads and that is the lesson for us. However, does anyone think that if dublin were taken from jim gavins setup into, what sounds like, something you would see at an u16 club squad, they wouldnt have something to say about it? No way would they take that, and proper order too. They might go about it in a better way as regards managing the press, but that is only because they have professionals advising them night and day on such things.

Dublin footballers don't embaress themselves in the media, because they understand the concepts of team work, hard work, loyalty and unity. It's not because they are being advised by professionals night and day. If you think character doesn't matter & its just about having the right handlers on the payroll, then you have an awful lot to learn about what it takes to win an All Ireland.

seligehgit · 18-12-2016 11:28PM

Green Peter wrote: »

Delighted Clarke got the All Star and retired, he deserved better from teammates.

There has been no indication that David Clarke has retired.

Robeman · 18-12-2016 11:37PM

ProudDUB wrote: »

Dublin footballers don't embaress themselves in the media, because they understand the concepts of team work, hard work, loyalty and unity. It's not because they are being advised by professionals night and day. If you think character doesn't matter & its just about having the right handlers on the payroll, then you have an awful lot to learn about what it takes to win an All Ireland.

Correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that Dublin panel share all earnings from media, promotional, advertising work rather than it going to main stars only. If true this demonstartes a good team ethic. I don't believe that this happens in Mayo

TCDStudent1 · 18-12-2016 11:39PM

what was the issue with their appointment again?

Didn't McStay withdraw once it became clear that the players didn't want to work with Liam McHale? I certainly remember him saying something like that when he withdrew. And I don't recall any other contenders outside Holmes / Connelly

seligehgit · 18-12-2016 11:44PM

Robeman wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that Dublin panel share all earnings from media, promotional, advertising work rather than it going to main stars only. If true this demonstartes a good team ethic. I don't believe that this happens in Mayo

Yes that is correct,I read it somewhere.Right and proper,it should be implemented in Mayo.

ammc · 18-12-2016 11:51PM

PressRun wrote: »

If Holmes and Connelly want to really get into the nitty gritty of what happened during their time in charge, I would more than welcome it. But I highly doubt they want any situation to arise where they can't control the narrative.

And I don't believe for a second that they don't know why they were ousted. They know exactly why.

PressRun, why the mystery? Why were they ousted?

finisklin · 18-12-2016 11:54PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

what was the issue with their appointment again?

Didn't McStay withdraw once it became clear that the players didn't want to work with Liam McHale? I certainly remember him saying something like that when he withdrew. And I don't recall any other contenders outside Holmes / Connelly

The county board chariman called McStay for a second interview after McStay was told that Holmes & Connelly had got the job. In effect McNicholas wanted McStay to withdraw from process paving way open for Holmes and Connelly.

MayoAreMagic · 18-12-2016 11:55PM

Robeman wrote: »

The players were given ample opportunity to give reason but they chose not to because there are none of substance. Finally Holmes \ Connolly give theirs and somehow it is one sided.

The great unknown is actually what the result of the vote was. The problem there is that no tellers were appointed by the meeting and votes were not publically counted. If the "Egos" were the one who called the meeting \ organised venue \ set the agenda \ decided on what to be voted on then very possible that they "organised" vote count as well. It might have been 27-7 and then again it might not have been. Only those who counted votes know the truth. We all laugh at various "Presidential" votes like those in Zimbabwe and how popular Mugabe is. Maybe Mayo player votes have the same rules.

Sorry but that isnt true at all. None of this was played out in public, therefore the entire thing is a 'great unknown', using that logic.

They dont have to make their reasons public and that is their perogative. Do you tell the world the details of your business? Because I certainly dont. Now I agree that the reasons could maybe have been discussed with the two guys, but what actual difference would that make? They still wanted them out. In all likelihood we would just have had more meat for the journos to tear into in their articles when the details were inevitably leaked - the same way everything else has been leaked, both by the co board, certain players and the managers themselves. So in that respect, maybe it was the smartest thing they have done to date to say nothing? You are naive if you think the managers dont know 95% of what all this was over. They were there the same as all the players were.

Robeman wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with personality clashes or players having opinions (even inflated) on themselves so long as they accept that manager is boss.

Absolutely there isnt, so why were they so put out by it? Why did they take it so personally that players had different opinions to them? As for not accepting who was boss, I see no genuine evidence of that. I see details of players speaking with managers that are being spun a certain way by one side. We need more context on SOS' suggesting hennelly for example. Was he laying down the law or was he simply offering his opinion to the managers in a well meaning way? We are having an awful lot of blanks filled in for us in a quite deliberate way in this article. What I dont get is if it is this clear cut, why cant they just give us those details, rather than their narrative?

Robeman wrote: »

The point I draw from article is that Alan Dillon very happy when he was on team less so when he was off it.

Alan Dillon wasnt in the team at any point though. Which, when you consider his influence against tyrone a year later, raises questions as regards their managerial ability. Could this lack of ability be a factor in the frustrations clearly evident in the players? Very likely I would imagine. You seem to have everything as a one way street. There are two sides to every story.

QUOTE=Robeman;102008189]Alan Dillon
Seamus O Shea
Aidan O Shea
Robbie Hennelly
Keith Higgins
I wonder why these were the ones singled out. [/QUOTE]

The same higgins who they named their vice captain?

QUOTE=Robeman;102008189]We don't win a lot in Mayo if fact we win so few national titles at senior level that believe it or not Pat Holmes is out most successful senior manager since 1951 having won a national league title and an under 21 title. So before belittling him less us remember that little fact.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. As we should remember that this group of players are the most committed, determined, consistant and by far the best group we have ever had, who have taken superior teams to the wire time and again and are feared and respected up and down the country. Before slating them at every turn and giving them zero slack, we should remember that fact also, shouldnt we? Or are you going down the martin breheny school of double standards route also?

MayoAreMagic · 19-12-2016 12:04AM

ProudDUB wrote: »

Dublin footballers don't embaress themselves in the media, because they understand the concepts of team work, hard work, loyalty and unity. It's not because they are being advised by professionals night and day. If you think character doesn't matter & its just about having the right handlers on the payroll, then you have an awful lot to learn about what it takes to win an All Ireland.

Ah give me a break. Plenty dublin players embarassed themselves in the media in the run up to the final replay, albeit past players. And I can think of one current player who went on the radio and flatly denied he had gouged another players eye, when it was clear that he had - I would consider that very embarassing to be honest.

I never mentioned the word character, so I dont know where you are pulling that tangent out of. However, this mayo team has plenty of it. Do you think they didnt know they would have plenty aiming the above type of stuff at them at every turn? The easy thing was to just go along with it. They still had the guts to do it. I dont put them up on a pedestal as I have early pointed out - they arent perfect. But they are due a fair and reasonable 'trial by media' at least, if people are determinded to trial them there.

Kristopherus · 19-12-2016 12:07AM

seligehgit wrote: »

No I believe he voted with the majority without question.

You're right. My bad:o

ProudDUB · 19-12-2016 12:21AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah give me a break. Plenty dublin players embarassed themselves in the media in the run up to the final replay, albeit past players. And I can think of one current player who went on the radio and flatly denied he had gouged another players eye, when it was clear that he had - I would consider that very embarassing to be honest.

I never mentioned the word character, so I dont know where you are pulling that tangent out of. However, this mayo team has plenty of it. Do you think they didnt know they would have plenty aiming the above type of stuff at them at every turn? The easy thing was to just go along with it. They still had the guts to do it. I dont put them up on a pedestal as I have early pointed out - they arent perfect. But they are due a fair and reasonable 'trial by media' at least, if people are determinded to trial them there.

Where did I say that the Dublin footballers don't do plenty of press interviews? No where is where. What they don't do is wash any of their dirty linen in public, engage in any kind of rumour mongering, or issue pissed off tweets directed at their own county board, because their father didn't get the gig with the u21 set up. If Michael Daragh McAuley, Kevin McMennamon, or the Brogans are pissed off at Jim Gavin because they are spending too much time on the bench, we sure as heck ain't going to be reading about it in the papers, or on Boards. Same for Kieran Donaghy, Marc O'Se or James O'Donoghue in Kerry. Paid media handlers has eff all to do with that.

koochie · 19-12-2016 12:25AM

Mayo Are Magic is it a possibility that because H & C did not pander to the requests/demands of the 'egos' that the players revolted?
If this happens to be the case, the players who initiated the whole thing are hardly going to be honest about their motives, as in doing so would turn members of the team against them. E.g. Hennelly is hardly going to tell Clarke he is not happy with H & C because they view Clarke to be the superior man on the goal line.
As yesterday's article outlines mountains were being made out of molehills in regard to trivial events, possibly because the players with issues could not make their true motives known, as their motives were not for in the interest of all the players.

MayoAreMagic · 19-12-2016 01:00AM

koochie wrote: »

The issue here is that a small cohort of players in our squad have been trying to influence management decisions. It appears that they succeeded in doing so in the most important game of this year's GAA calendar, hence we had our All Star goalkeeper keeping a seat in the stand warm whilst the big boys had there buddy between the posts.

If that is the case then it needs addressing, but we need more than what we got to prove that it is so. Like are they trying to influence it, or are they just trying to help by giving their views? To be honest, the two guys seemed to have been stewing over this, going over it again and again, which I understand. Doesnt really offer much as regards objectivity though does it? They seem to have found an issue with every possible thing - the same thing they were accusing the players of. Like the part about guys not being in the squad previously, therefore not being in a position to decide that they werent up to the job - guys have played in college teams, u21 county teams, top club teams. More importantly, they are out there on the pitch and they can see what other teams are doing, how they are prepared, their tactics and they can compare that to their own. Of course they are in a position to decide if they are doing a job of that standard. I found that point rediculous and also quite petty. 'Sure what would ye know' - come on like...

These correspondence need to be viewed properly by an objective party if we are to come to this conclusion.
Isnt it possible that AOS was simply acting as a senior player on behalf of a younger player as to why he wasnt being considered and what he could do to be considered? Was this guy going well? Did they tell him how he could get into the squad or just ignore him? Was AOS one of the players rep? Like this thing of managers call the shots and the players should sit there like lambs, is a handy rod for their backs, but it isnt exactly how things go in reality. Players go to managers all the time and ask what they need to do or why they arent being considered etc - they want to play.
I recall a passage from Jack O'Connors book where Tom O'Sullivan texted him telling him he had saved his job with the use of some xrated language to boot! (But of course this doesnt happen in kerry!) Imagine the reaction if that was aimed at AOS in this article? Now he was actually half joking in doing so, but that could be spun quite differently, if the author so wishes, couldnt it? - Context. Darragh O'Se had a big issue with the use of psychologists and was quite awkward to handle around this issue. What is the difference?

koochie wrote: »

Considering Tom Cunniffe's account of things, it is plausible to believe that the majority of players were influenced by a minority. T Cunniffe voted against H and C even tho he didn't have reason to do so. If a senior member of the squad voted against his own beliefs, can you imagine the pressure on the younger lads.

In fairness, his version is being spun too. The sentiment of his interview was that he didnt like how things went subsequently (i.e. after they had made their feelings known), that maybe it was a bit too forceful, and that he regrets that. Id say most players in the squad would make that same point. They didnt want to shame them and that was clear. If you recall, it was not the players who first went public with this story. They wanted them to just step down and keep it in house - which is exactly what should have happened. Now every time I read a reference to cunniffe, his account is changing more and more. Soon enough the O'Sheas will have waterboarded him to vote Yes. It just isnt fair, and more importantly, it isnt conducive to an objective view.

He voted them out because he didnt think they were up to the job - a trusted lieutenant of holmes at club level dont forget. That is the salient point as regards cunniffe. Of course he felt bad after and felt maybe things could have been handled better, Im sure he isnt alone. Doesnt mean he changed his mind as regards their quality though.

koochie wrote: »

It seems many of us Mayo folk can't cope with self criticism and always look to the outside when things don't go our way.
The issues are there, there is no point sweeping them under the carpet. It's time to take out the full length mirrors and stop running away.

Indeed. And that is a good point - but I would argue that connelly and holmes are as guilty as anyone on this front. They seemed to take real offence to anyone asking them questions or looking for an explanation for what they are telling guys to do. They seem to think that any query is an attack on them personally or total insubordination. I mean guys can ask them questions ffs, or make points about what they feel allows them to play to their best - and if you just concentrate on the details; that is all we have evidence of. That to me indicates that they just werent up to this job, and blaming the players egos or cliques isnt going to change that. Did anyone stop to realise that this 'clique' also happened to contain most of the most senior members in the squad? Maybe this clique was actually experienced senior guys trying to save the ship from sinking. I suppose we could spin that angle too. In fact Id say it probably will be done in the coming weeks, which will also be a big hit Im sure. The only guys winning here are the papers, who are playing mayo like a fiddle.

MayoAreMagic · 19-12-2016 01:06AM

ProudDUB wrote: »

Where did I say that the Dublin footballers don't do plenty of press interviews? No where is where. What they don't do is wash any of their dirty linen in public, engage in any kind of rumour mongering, or issue pissed off tweets directed at their own county board, because their father didn't get the gig with the u21 set up. If Michael Daragh McAuley, Kevin McMennamon, or the Brogans are pissed off at Jim Gavin because they are spending too much time on the bench, we sure as heck ain't going to be reading about it in the papers, or on Boards. Same for Kieran Donaghy, Marc O'Se or James O'Donoghue in Kerry. Paid media handlers has eff all to do with that.

You said they dont embarassed themselves in the media - I pointed out that they do. Case closed.

Although funny you mention the brogans and the bench - alan brogan has stated in an interview that he wanted to play and didnt want to be on the bench or be a bit part player, and that this was a big part of why he retired. Sounds like he was a bit pissed off to me... Anyway, this thread isnt about dublin, so maybe you can stop making it about them...

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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