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Occupy Nama: City property taken over to house homeless

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Comments

  • #182
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Jeepers that's a staggering amount of money going to those charities. I am gobsmacked. E33million in taxpayer funds, E35million on salaries, and obviously the shortfall comes from donations. Honestly it is hard to take in really, notwithstanding the professionalism of those working for the charities.

    So the actual money going to the homeless comes from charitable donations, since the rest comes from the Exchequer.

    They should all consolidate at this stage, it seems to me (a dilletante taxpayer lol before any professional has a conniption), that the duplication is just bad value for money. Anyway....

    And where are we still to this day, despite all that moolah?

    Rhetorical question. There will never be enough to solve this it seems.


  • #183
    drdeadlift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    Loveinapril wrote: »
    Ooops. Noted!

    I do think some of these services have to remain though, for those who would never be able to maintain a property.

    And to keep people in employment.


  • #184
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    So we the tax payer threw them just shy of 34'million. And.they spent almost 36 million on salaries and wages on their own employees.

    Do the maths.
    An average of €38,400 each, or a lot less when you take into account how much the head honchos get paid. Or do you expect the people who studied many years to do it for free, and be homeless themselves???????
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    They should all consolidate at this stage, it seems to me (a dilletante taxpayer lol before any professional has a conniption), that the duplication is just bad value for money. Anyway....
    Some of the charities are religious, some aren't, and I can never see them all merging.


  • #185
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    the_syco wrote: »
    An average of €38,400 each, or a lot less when you take into account how much the head honchos get paid. Or do you expect the people who studied many years to do it for free, and be homeless themselves???????


    Some of the charities are religious, some aren't, and I can never see them all merging.

    What are they actually doing though?


  • #186
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    the_syco wrote: »


    Some of the charities are religious, some aren't, and I can never see them all merging.

    Nothing to do with religion. They are getting taxpayer's money and that should be used in the best possible way for the clients. I doubt that every client that goes to a religious charity is religious themselves.

    The issue is ego and empire building sorry to say that, but that is my impression anyway. No way will three or four CEOs give up their jobs and the duplicate support staff won't do it either. Redundancies all round.

    I wish I could justify it for them, but they can't justify it themselves.

    Thousands on advertising, salaries, lobbying Government, and pleading with us to give more, more, more.

    Multiplied by four!


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  • #187
    Alf Stewart.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭Alf Stewart.


    the_syco wrote: »
    An average of €38,400 each, or a lot less when you take into account how much the head honchos get paid. Or do you expect the people who studied many years to do it for free, and be homeless themselves???????


    Some of the charities are religious, some aren't, and I can never see them all merging.

    Again, missing the point.

    The govt give the charities 34m, and they pay themselves 36m.

    Obviously, they have gathered up a surplus +/- €2m from the public to further pay themselves.

    How much is actually going to solve the homeless problem? Where or who is funding that?

    34m per annum (thats in relation to the two aforementioned charities only) would go a long way towards building and maintaining some form of social housing to actually, y'know house some homeless.

    Giving money over just so a large charity can fund itself to exist is nonsensical.

    It reminds me in Stephen Donnelly's analogy about erecting a sign that says "do not throw stones at this sign".

    I'm not for a minute trying to diss the people working in these charities, I'm sure that theyre all hard working professional sith jobs to do, etc etc.

    I'm pointing out the ludicrous position of paying a charity to pay itself to collect money for the homeless.

    Just use the same money to help the homeless, no need for the middle man in between then.


  • #188
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    Again, missing the point.

    The govt give the charities 34m, and they pay themselves 36m.

    Obviously, they have gathered up a surplus +/- €2m from the public to further pay themselves.

    How much is actually going to solve the homeless problem? Where or who is funding that?

    34m per annum (thats in relation to the two aforementioned charities only) would go a long way towards building and maintaining some form of social housing to actually, y'know house some homeless.

    Giving money over just so a large charity can fund itself to exist is nonsensical.

    It reminds me in Stephen Donnelly's analogy about erecting a sign that says "do not throw stones at this sign".

    I'm not for a minute trying to diss the people working in these charities, I'm sure that theyre all hard working professional sith jobs to do, etc etc.

    I'm pointing out the ludicrous position of paying a charity to pay itself to collect money for the homeless.

    Just use the same money to help the homeless, no need for the middle man in between then.

    Bravo.

    But I am certain that there is some existential point you have totally failed to understand here. :cool:

    But I am sure someone will come along and explain it all for us.

    (There is no explanation IMV, but I bet someone has one just the same!)


  • #189
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    drdeadlift wrote: »
    And to keep people in employment.

    That's the worst reason ever, it's like keeping a herd of sika deer so fleas and ticks can live

    A bit like the fleas and ticks, it seems the charisites can't change/upskill :
    the_syco wrote: »
    ............... Or do you expect the people who studied many years to do it for free, and be homeless themselves???????

    A (relative) few are ok, but you don't want the place crawling with parasites


  • #190
    TresGats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭TresGats


    This would come under the definition of "Care In The Community" - a much trotted out but meaningless cliche trotted out from the HSE about citizens with mental health issues, addictions, or generally in need of support. First time I've ever seen it in action, fair play. At least somebodys doing something. It's bloody cold outside.
    There is a small enclave of tents somewhere in a South Dublin Park, a 'collective' if you like, of individuals who have had enough of the stealing , drugs and violence that goes on at some hostels where dorm type accom is used. Single men get the worst deal of all.
    Also, to the poster who said that there are beds available to anyone who wants one every night - I know this is not true. I know if you are a homeless male, you may not even get a place in the "night cafe" so you have no choice but to sleep rough.
    There are a lot of cold hearted responses on this thread, you might have a brother or sister, or son or daughter, who through bad luck ends up in such a position. Would rather your loved one sleeping in a wet sleeping bag in a doorway or laneway, or in company of people who actually seem to care about the issue and are providing a roof, warmth and companionship. Can you imagine what it is like to be homeless in the dead of Winter?


  • #191
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    TresGats wrote: »
    This would come under the definition of "Care In The Community" - a much trotted out but meaningless cliche trotted out from the HSE about citizens with mental health issues, addictions, or generally in need of support. First time I've ever seen it in action, fair play. At least somebodys doing something. It's bloody cold outside.
    There is a small enclave of tents somewhere in a South Dublin Park, a 'collective' if you like, of individuals who have had enough of the stealing , drugs and violence that goes on at some hostels where dorm type accom is used. Single men get the worst deal of all.
    Also, to the poster who said that there are beds available to anyone who wants one every night - I know this is not true. I know if you are a homeless male, you may not even get a place in the "night cafe" so you have no choice but to sleep rough.
    There are a lot of cold hearted responses on this thread, you might have a brother or sister, or son or daughter, who through bad luck ends up in such a position. Would rather your loved one sleeping in a wet sleeping bag in a doorway or laneway, or in company of people who actually seem to care about the issue and are providing a roof, warmth and companionship. Can you imagine what it is like to be homeless in the dead of Winter?

    I am sure you will think I am cold hearted, but I am far from it.

    I just do not understand how E36 MILLION is spent on salaries, when as you say many, especially single men have nowhere to sleep at night except in a cold dark wet doorway, if they are lucky.

    There is something very out of kilter there, surely you have to agree?

    Any suggestions?


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  • #192
    TresGats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭TresGats


    I agree with you on salaries for sure.
    I had this as a amall scale intermediate suggestion, but got no replies http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675252


  • #193
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    david75 wrote: »


    The project has now raised €50k

    People's imaginations and sense of good has been sparked.
    Who is taking care of the money? what is it being spent on as spending it on this building is a waste of money! When this pet project is finished where will the money end up?
    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    The homeless charities (a good portion of them) are big business money machines, out to line their own pockets, and have crafted the term "homelessness"' into a a finely tuned, fiercely competitive and tterritorial business.

    Here is figures from the McVerry Trust and Focus.



    So we the tax payer threw them just shy of 34'million. And.they spent almost 36 million on salaries and wages on their own employees.

    Do the maths.

    All that money yet people are still being left to their own devices when what they need most of all is treatment for their mental health issues! Most addicts have serious underlying mental health issues that are not addressed which leads them into the grips of drink, drugs and addiction.


  • #194
    Cdosrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Cdosrun


    Did anyone post here who was/is homeless.?

    People don't seem to understand it from their point even those who claim they work with them.
    Calling them clients rather than people is enough for me to know it is run like business for profit for those who run it.

    There are many threads here about scumbags in town now think
    if you had to share a small room with two of them for the night or
    stay out all night.
    You leave the room to take a wee and take all your stuff with you,
    come back and guy1 is guffing off (gone into junkie zombie mode) and blood on his bed guy 2
    is angry about a lad down stairs and shouting about how he is
    going to kill the lad.

    If you don't drink or take drugs these pleases would drive you to it.


  • #195
    Cdosrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Cdosrun


    I suppose they are clients as they have to pay for the service the
    charity provides.
    People here think you just walk up and say "homeless need a bed"
    and you get it.

    In a few years the people who boards would call normal and they get their life back will be posting about how it really is.


  • #196
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    Again, missing the point.

    The govt give the charities 34m, and they pay themselves 36m.

    Just use the same money to help the homeless, no need for the middle man in between then.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Bravo.

    But I am certain that there is some existential point you have totally failed to understand here. :cool:

    But I am sure someone will come along and explain it all for us.

    (There is no explanation IMV, but I bet someone has one just the same!)

    There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
    You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

    I know people are complaining about Focus and Peter Mc Verys wages but honestly these charities are not about as someone mentioned earlier "lining their pockets"
    They genuinely are trying their best to look after these people sleeping on the streets and trying to keep them off the streets.


    As for this occupy thing -- If it got even one family off the streets by way of the media attention its getting then its been a successful campaign.No one in 2016 Ireland should be sleeping rough regardless of their mental state or addiction problems.

    Everyone here that's calling for them to be arrested etc is sitting at home right now in their nice cosy warm home with plenty of food,drink and access to medicine if needed and not sleeping in some doorway in minus 2 degrees.

    Imagine how that feels at the start of Christmas week.

    If everyone that posted in this thread even spent one night doing a food run and actually saw the deplorable conditions out there then attitudes would change very quickly.


  • #197
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,324 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • #198
    Cdosrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Cdosrun


    What does this guy do if he ends up homeless .

    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057681074/1/#post101940222


  • #199
    Cdosrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Cdosrun


    He won't get rent allowance .no proof of renting for five years and not on the housing list.


  • #200
    Cdosrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Cdosrun


    Loveinapril wrote: »
    Have you read the post? He was in a council house, therefore was housed by a local authority due to previously being on the housing list. And the criteria for the housing list is to have been assessed as in need of housing or evidence of renting for 6 months, not 5 years. If someone is accessing homeless services they are given homeless priority on the list. Maybe do a bit of research before you start stating things as fact.

    I don't need research,I jumped the gun a but is is resident in the country for the last five years
    So if you have been out of the country for say nine months in the last five years your in trouble.
    He was housed so that takes him off the housing list and now if he were to get a flat he would need 6 months rent and deposit before
    he would even be considered for rent allowance.

    The points you pickup in my post don't really answer anything,just nitpicking.


  • #201
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    david75 wrote: »


    The project has now raised €50k

    People's imaginations and sense of good has been sparked.
    Who is taking care of the money? what is it being spent on as spending it on this building is a waste of money! When this pet project is finished where will the money end up?
    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    The homeless charities (a good portion of them) are big business money machines, out to line their own pockets, and have crafted the term "homelessness"' into a a finely tuned, fiercely competitive and tterritorial business.

    Here is figures from the McVerry Trust and Focus.



    So we the tax payer threw them just shy of 34'million. And.they spent almost 36 million on salaries and wages on their own employees.

    Do the maths.

    All that money yet people are still being left to their own devices when what they need most of all is treatment for their mental health issues! Most addicts have serious underlying mental health issues that are not addressed which leads them into the grips of drink, drugs and addiction.
    I really hope that paul kelly x console isn't reading this thread. He will be jumping on the bandwagon in a flash.


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  • #202
    drdeadlift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That's the worst reason ever, it's like keeping a herd of sika deer so fleas and ticks can live

    A bit like the fleas and ticks, it seems the charisites can't change/upskill :



    A (relative) few are ok, but you don't want the place crawling with parasites

    i know,the money should be going to a government department dealing with the problem.People can argue over the running costs of a business(charity) there in lies the problem.


  • #203
    fatknacker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    The more I look at it, the more I see that the Home Sweet Home project is less about the homeless and more about people wanting to help the homeless.
    I get that the vast majority of the population feel absolutely helpless towards the situation and want to be able to lend a hand in any which way they can. I get that it's coming from a good place with good intentions...especially "coz it's Christmas" and of course the simple solution is to pair homeless people up with the hundreds of empty buildings around the city.
    It's a real nice idea in theory. Unfortunately the reality of trying to manage several homeless people will set in soon, after Christmas when the season of goodwill begins tapering off and there's less interest in doing your bit.
    What happens then?


  • #204
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
    You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

    I know people are complaining about Focus and Peter Mc Verys wages but honestly these charities are not about as someone mentioned earlier "lining their pockets"
    They genuinely are trying their best to look after these people sleeping on the streets and trying to keep them off the streets.


    As for this occupy thing -- If it got even one family off the streets by way of the media attention its getting then its been a successful campaign.No one in 2016 Ireland should be sleeping rough regardless of their mental state or addiction problems.

    Everyone here that's calling for them to be arrested etc is sitting at home right now in their nice cosy warm home with plenty of food,drink and access to medicine if needed and not sleeping in some doorway in minus 2 degrees.

    Imagine how that feels at the start of Christmas week.

    If everyone that posted in this thread even spent one night doing a food run and actually saw the deplorable conditions out there then attitudes would change very quickly.

    There wasn't one family on the streets so you're whole point is mute.

    And there is people sleeping rough in every country in the world.

    So why in Ireland in 2016 should there not be someone sleeping rough?

    I'm not saying it's right but tell me why Ireland is unique to other countries in it should have solved the homeless issue?


  • #205
    jaysisjames
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭jaysisjames


    It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
    Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
    It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.


  • #206
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    jaysisjames wrote: »
    It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
    Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
    It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.

    There is already shelter and beds avaliable without this celebrity stunt.


  • #207
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    jaysisjames wrote: »
    It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
    Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
    It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.

    According to DCC, there is now provision made for every rough sleeper who wants a bed, so I wouldn't blame people for being cynical at some celebs jumping on a bandwagon.

    http://www.dublincity.ie/emergency-expansion-230-bed-spaces-and-winter-rough-sleeping-count-announced
    Within the context of increased demand for access to emergency accommodation the expansion of provision by 230 additional bed spaces is required in order to ensure no person is forced to sleep rough due to inadequate provision.

    To be honest, if they really wanted to help, they'd have been better of linking in with the existing service providers in local government and in the charity sector and asking them how best their celebrity power could be brought to bear.


  • #208
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Here's the current weekly spending for homelessness services .
    And to think people are saying the government aren't doing enough.

    business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/council-pays-1m-a-week-to-shelter-homeless-35304284.html
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #209
    mahoganygas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mahoganygas


    With so many 'public figures' in their midst, why do they keep putting Dean Scurry in front of a camera?

    He's not articulate when it comes to explaining what's going on, and seems to suffer from verbal diarrhea when the camera man says 'action'.


  • #210
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Gatling wrote: »
    Here's the current weekly spending for homelessness services .
    And to think people are saying the government aren't doing enough.

    business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/council-pays-1m-a-week-to-shelter-homeless-35304284.html

    Sure everything is the government's fault.

    There is no personal responsibility in this country anymore.

    Just blame it on the government.


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  • #211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

    1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

    Thats great.


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