Some questions re flying!

IITYWYBMAD · 07-12-2016 12:47PM

I used to be in your exact position OP, and while I still am not a huge fan of flying, it doesn't bother me at all, even high turbulence. I fly about 80 times a year, so it was a case of either getting over it, or finding a new job!! 2 things really helped me:

1) I cannot recommend highly enough a set of noise cancelling ear phones and a good number of podcasts for each flight.

2) I had the pleasure of sitting beside 2 pilots on different flights, one on a Stobart air flight that was horrendously bouncy. Once I explained my anxiety, they were quick to point out why we had turbulence and basically how over-engineered the planes were to deal with a couple of bumps.

I still never sleep on flights, but I came back form the US on a long haul a couple of weeks ago, and was surprised when my partner had found the flight very bumpy. I hadn't noticed at all to be honest.

My advice, is to (try) to relax. Have a good set of ear phones, and always remember that you are far more likely to be killed in the car to the airport than the flight to Leeds.

faceman · 07-12-2016 12:57PM

Hi OP, I feel your pain. I fly alot and I'm not the world's greatest flyer but things have improved dramatically over the past 10 years for me. Here's a few resources that may help.

Fear of Flying Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/no-title/id656669143?mt=2
There are a couple of interesting ones in the series. There are 2 about turbulence which are a bit of an eye opener in terms of explaining just how normal and uneventful turbulence really is. As someone said earlier, its like driving over a country road or cobblestone road. There's also a great one where he interviews a commercial airline pilot who used to have a debilitating fear of flying until she decided to be a pilot.

Allen Carr's Eazy Way to Enjoy Flying: https://www.amazon.com/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Enjoy-Flying/dp/0140278370
I've read quite a few books on flying over the years and this one is by far the best. Its the one book that truly gave me piece of mind.

Other practical tips I can offer and echo what others have said.

Noise Cancelling headphones. Well worth the investment. Mine are a set of Bose that cost €350 but I never board a plane without them. (Like i said I fly alot)

Sit over the wing and sit by the window. You're over the plane's centre of gravity so its likely the smoothest part of the plane. (Unless you're in business class!!) The reason I recommend the window is so that when you feel anxious or nervous you can look out the window to give yourself assurance that everything is normal.

IamtheWalrus · 07-12-2016 01:24PM

lemmno wrote: »

I guess a lot has happened recently to add to my fears. And while it's still not 'common', in flying terms it seemed a lot in the last number of years. The Malaysian incidents, air Asia which from afar was reported did fall out of the sky, the Brazilian flight where they bloody ran out of fuel of all things...add to that the bad experience I had and it's just snowballed. I sometimes think I'd be better off sitting in the cockpit so I could see and hear it all! On a road you can see the potholes coming. But you can't in the back of a plane.
Anxiety definitely plays a part. I am the type to panic if someone is late. Most people would assume they were caught up, I'm the type to assume they've had an accident. I just get worse and worse.

We've found the root of the problem then. I suggest seeing a psychotherapist. I did and my crippling anxiety is now an exception rather than the norm.

deaddonkey15 · 07-12-2016 10:43PM

Simtech do a course called Fly Fearless which may be of interest to you OP. You get to use one of their flight simulators and they cover things like anxiety management and turbulence amongst others.

Alternatively, you could try taking a flying lesson or two in a general aviation aircraft. You will inevitably bounce around a bit in those, but perhaps if you are sitting in the cockpit and controlling the plane and observing how insignificant the bumps are to the flight path and performance of the aircraft it might give you a different perspective.

smurfjed · 09-12-2016 05:40PM

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-talk/pilot-qa-what-causes-turbulence-and-is-it-dangerous-35016532.html

lemmno · 09-12-2016 06:44PM

It's just very strange. No matter how often I hear 'it's like a bump in the road' or 'its not dangerous' I still feel terrified. Like after watching a horror movie, you know the monster isn't real but it won't stop you from checking under the bed at night.

duskyjoe · 09-12-2016 07:09PM

Lemmno re read irish steves post again. He explains your concerns to a tee. Are you afraid of the actual flying bit or the enclosed in a cabin bit ? The two fears run parallel. I feel your pain as my late father was petrified of flying and couldn't travel unless utterly inebriated which really defeated the purpose. Irrespective of recent events, flying has never ever been safer.

Gamebred · 12-12-2016 12:35AM

Not a great flyer myself have accepted when my time is up its up dont worry anymore missed out on too many trips, my only real worry is a rogue pilot now a days tbh a suicidal person in control of the plane is a death sentence, Pilots are only human too as we seen with the German plane going to Barcelona.

lemmno · 12-12-2016 01:10AM

I've thought about it a bit more. And deep down the real fear is dying and not seeing my family again. And I guess when I'm in turbulence that's the closest I feel to that maybe happening.

As for the rogue pilot thing... yes, also a worry. But I'm hoping with new safety procedures and various checks that should also be a tiny risk. I also hope if they want to leave this world that they'll leave alone and not take others with them.

duskyjoe · 12-12-2016 08:15AM

lemmno wrote: »

I've thought about it a bit more. And deep down the real fear is dying and not seeing my family again. And I guess when I'm in turbulence that's the closest I feel to that maybe happening. .

Are you sure flying is the catalyst for your fears? Do you have the same thoughts when you cross the road as a pedestrian?

lemmno · 12-12-2016 11:08AM

duskyjoe wrote: »

Are you sure flying is the catalyst for your fears? Do you have the same thoughts when you cross the road as a pedestrian?

No I don't. I'm in control when I'm a pedestrian though.

faceman · 12-12-2016 12:02PM

lemmno wrote: »

No I don't. I'm in control when I'm a pedestrian though.

In Allen Carr's book on flying he shows results of a very interesting survey he conducted on people and the fear with different modes of transport. Obviously flying had the highest fear association despite being the undoubtedly the safest mode of transport. Interestingly enough there was a extremely high trust in railways are a mode of transport but he made great points that you've same lack of control on a train than you do on a plane.

In summary I'm less fearful of flying but have a new fear of trains!

duskyjoe · 12-12-2016 12:58PM

Hmm we are getting into the realm here is it really a fear of flying or claustrophobia. I have a pal whose very successful in business but when he goes on a plane the man goes into melt down. He feigned flying as his primary fear re crashes etc but in reality the man has lost control when the door closes and he's told buckle up. I asked him what about the door on a bus closing.....he says he can get off at anytime. Claustrophobia is a major problem with flying folk. It's very easy to tell someone to snap out of it but in reality it's just like telling someone in the top stand of a football stadium afraid of heights to pull them selves together. Back to the OP..... I feel sorry for you whatever your fear is. All I can say is flying in the western world has never been safer re technology, crew standards requirements, training and ability. Good luck and hopefully the posts here may have appeased your mind

lemmno · 12-12-2016 01:25PM

duskyjoe wrote: »

Hmm we are getting into the realm here is it really a fear of flying or claustrophobia. I have a pal whose very successful in business but when he goes on a plane the man goes into melt down. He feigned flying as his primary fear re crashes etc but in reality the man has lost control when the door closes and he's told buckle up. I asked him what about the door on a bus closing.....he says he can get off at anytime. Claustrophobia is a major problem with flying folk. It's very easy to tell someone to snap out of it but in reality it's just like telling someone in the top stand of a football stadium afraid of heights to pull them selves together. Back to the OP..... I feel sorry for you whatever your fear is. All I can say is flying in the western world has never been safer re technology, crew standards requirements, training and ability. Good luck and hopefully the posts here may have appeased your mind

Although I can't fully explain why I'm afraid I do know it's not the claustrophobic element as I'm absolutely fine with the door closing and with flying itself. The fear only kicks in with turbulence. I'm perfectly happy on a turbulence free flight but one bump and I'm gone.

lemmno · 12-12-2016 01:26PM

faceman wrote: »

In Allen Carr's book on flying he shows results of a very interesting survey he conducted on people and the fear with different modes of transport. Obviously flying had the highest fear association despite being the undoubtedly the safest mode of transport. Interestingly enough there was a extremely high trust in railways are a mode of transport but he made great points that you've same lack of control on a train than you do on a plane.

In summary I'm less fearful of flying but have a new fear of trains!

I guess in my mind I'm thinking there's more chance of surviving a train crash, even though there's more chance of it crashing. If a plane crashes to the ground you're gone, unless a miracle happens.

duskyjoe · 12-12-2016 02:15PM

Op, I don't know if we are in the right forum now and the thread is going around in circles now. Basically your afraid of dying and turbulence is your biggest threat.......go back to smurfs post and see how much wings can bend before they snap. 99.9% of flight crews do not fly into know area of severe forecast turbulence....the point 0.01% caters for the odd clown. Turbulence is a fact of flying and you can't get away from it from tiny bumps to moderate jolts.....is the safety of the aircraft re structural failure at pearl transiting these areas? No

The thread is now doing loop the loops as in going round in circles

Negative_G · 12-12-2016 02:16PM

lemmno wrote: »

I guess in my mind I'm thinking there's more chance of surviving a train crash, even though there's more chance of it crashing. If a plane crashes to the ground you're gone, unless a miracle happens.

Aviation is probably the most safety driven transport industry.

There is so much redundancy in every aspect of a flight.

lemmno · 12-12-2016 03:03PM

duskyjoe wrote: »

Op, I don't know if we are in the right forum now and the thread is going around in circles now. Basically your afraid of dying and turbulence is your biggest threat.......go back to smurfs post and see how much wings can bend before they snap. 99.9% of flight crews do not fly into know area of severe forecast turbulence....the point 0.01% caters for the odd clown. Turbulence is a fact of flying and you can't get away from it from tiny bumps to moderate jolts.....is the safety of the aircraft re structural failure at pearl transiting these areas? No

The thread is now doing loop the loops as in going round in circles

Agreed.But I'm just answering those who have been kind enough to reply to my OP, or who have taken the time to ask me more in relation to my fear in the hope of finding the root cause of my fear so that they can point me in the correct direction.

Believe me I've looked at every single reply and taken everything on board and have spent hours researching all that has been suggested above to great detail. The posters are asking why, how, and I'm answering them. Yes it may seem like it's going in circles to others, but fears aren't rational at times and it has actually helped me to do 'loop the loops' on this issue. I wanted to know about the technical side and I got that plus a lot more.

Thanks once again for all your replies, you've all certainly given me a lot of food for thought. I've decided the Simtech course as mentioned and a trip to a psychotherapist could be beneficial.

Those who can just take fact as fact are very lucky, others like myself sometimes need a bit more help.

Poochie05 · 14-12-2016 12:32PM

lemmno, I strongly recommend you check out this course: http://www.flyfearless.ie/

It's worth every penny. They cover all the aspects you have brought up here and help you work through ways to cope. They are even on hand at the end of the phone before your flight if you need them.
Like you, I could feel the problem building and felt I needed to tackle it before it became something that would prevent me from travelling. The course gives you all the information you need, no question is stupid. As a previously nervous flyer, while I'll never be completely chilled and relaxed on a plane, it has prevented things getting so bad that I wouldn't fly.
You'd be surprised how many people are like you and I've found once I mention to people I did this course, it's amazing the amount of people who admit that they're nervous flyers too. One of the things brought up in the course is that it is very common for women in their 30s-40s to develop this fear as they have kids and become more aware of their vulnerability.
I also recommend reading Alan Carr's book. His main message: 'Let the pilot fly the plane' was my mantra on a recent long haul flight!

lemmno · 14-12-2016 12:49PM

Poochie05 wrote: »

lemmno, I strongly recommend you check out this course: http://www.flyfearless.ie/

It's worth every penny. They cover all the aspects you have brought up here and help you work through ways to cope. They are even on hand at the end of the phone before your flight if you need them.
Like you, I could feel the problem building and felt I needed to tackle it before it became something that would prevent me from travelling. The course gives you all the information you need, no question is stupid. As a previously nervous flyer, while I'll never be completely chilled and relaxed on a plane, it has prevented things getting so bad that I wouldn't fly.
You'd be surprised how many people are like you and I've found once I mention to people I did this course, it's amazing the amount of people who admit that they're nervous flyers too. One of the things brought up in the course is that it is very common for women in their 30s-40s to develop this fear as they have kids and become more aware of their vulnerability.
I also recommend reading Alan Carr's book. His main message: 'Let the pilot fly the plane' was my mantra on a recent long haul flight!

Thanks!
Looked up that course. Tad off putting though that it only has two Google reviews and that one of them is quite blatantly from the owner.

Poochie05 · 14-12-2016 12:52PM

lemmno wrote: »

Thanks!
Looked up that course. Tad off putting though that it only has two Google reviews and that one of them is quite blatantly from the owner.

I think check out their Facebook page and you will get more of an idea. For the record, I am not the owner

- did the course a few years ago and a very satisfied customer.

Locker10a · 14-12-2016 05:37PM

lemmno wrote: »

Poochie05 wrote: »

lemmno, I strongly recommend you check out this course: http://www.flyfearless.ie/

It's worth every penny. They cover all the aspects you have brought up here and help you work through ways to cope. They are even on hand at the end of the phone before your flight if you need them.
Like you, I could feel the problem building and felt I needed to tackle it before it became something that would prevent me from travelling. The course gives you all the information you need, no question is stupid. As a previously nervous flyer, while I'll never be completely chilled and relaxed on a plane, it has prevented things getting so bad that I wouldn't fly.
You'd be surprised how many people are like you and I've found once I mention to people I did this course, it's amazing the amount of people who admit that they're nervous flyers too. One of the things brought up in the course is that it is very common for women in their 30s-40s to develop this fear as they have kids and become more aware of their vulnerability.
I also recommend reading Alan Carr's book. His main message: 'Let the pilot fly the plane' was my mantra on a recent long haul flight!

Thanks!
Looked up that course. Tad off putting though that it only has two Google reviews and that one of them is quite blatantly from the owner.

I know you said you didn't like EasyJet, but I've had a lot of dealings with them and they truly are a very professional organisation. You can have a bad experience on any airline. But my main point is they also run a fantastic fear of flying course which is highly accredited and you'll find loads of information on if you google it. Something to consider and maybe put past bad experience behind as easyJet operate no differently to any other career and have many many experienced pilots and indeed their pilots union have a strong input to the airlines operations and focus on ensuring pilots training and standards are to the highest standard

Some questions re flying!

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