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Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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Comments

  • #452
    Lake1989
    Site Banned Posts: 377 ✭✭Lake1989


    bilston wrote: »
    There are four like captaincy candidates, Warburton, AWJ, Best and Hartley. Hartley has damaged his chances today significantly.

    I've said for a while I'd go for AWJ, but the second row is so competitive. That said if Gatland goes for a Welsh player then presumably he has to go for Warburton...otherwise why is he his Welsh captain?!

    If Hartley gets a ban of longer than 8 or 9 weeks then he may well lose the England captaincy. If someone else leads England to a GS then they become a contender. No idea who would replace Hartley though.

    England would likely revert to Robshaw. Looking at some english opinion today and a few journos and former players think Hartley will get a ban which will see him miss part of the 6n.

    As for the Lions, think the test captain shouldnt be named until after the game a week before the first test.


  • #453
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The Telegraph has a story in tomorrow's edition about Best being the front runner for Lions captaincy. Carrying quotes from Gatland praising Best's performances as Ireland captain over the last year.


  • #454
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Ben Youngs simply can't start for the Lions. Munster/Leicester was hyped as clash between the two front runners for the Lions 9 jersey. But for me there's no competition. It has to be Murray. When Youngs gets front foot ball he can be electric. Makes breaks and links well. But he's especially bad when the game is scrappy. Every scrum half struggles when their pack is on the back foot but Youngs seems to be hit worse than most. His passing goes to pot.


  • #455
    Lake1989
    Site Banned Posts: 377 ✭✭Lake1989


    Clegg wrote: »
    Ben Youngs simply can't start for the Lions. Munster/Leicester was hyped as clash between the two front runners for the Lions 9 jersey. But for me there's no competition. It has to be Murray. When Youngs gets front foot ball he can be electric. Makes breaks and links well. But he's especially bad when the game is scrappy. Every scrum half struggles when their pack is on the back foot but Youngs seems to be hit worse than most. His passing goes to pot.

    9 Murray 21 Youngs. If Webb gets back he also travels and has a shot at the 21 shirt.


  • #456
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,049 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Clegg wrote: »
    Ben Youngs simply can't start for the Lions. Munster/Leicester was hyped as clash between the two front runners for the Lions 9 jersey. But for me there's no competition. It has to be Murray. When Youngs gets front foot ball he can be electric. Makes breaks and links well. But he's especially bad when the game is scrappy. Every scrum half struggles when their pack is on the back foot but Youngs seems to be hit worse than most. His passing goes to pot.

    Murray was far better than Youngs today. But as ever a scrum half can only be as good as his pack lets him, but even still Murray has to be favourite for the 9 jersey.

    I reckon Youngs can offer something from the bench.


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  • #457
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    What I would like to see not what I expect be it injury or my just being wrong:

    1. McGrath
    2. Best
    3. Furlong
    4. AWJ
    5. Itoje
    6. Stander
    7. SOB
    8. Vunipola
    9. Murray
    10. Sexton
    11. North
    12. Farrell
    13. Henshaw
    14. L Williams
    15. Hogg

    16. George
    17. Vunipola
    18. Cole
    19. Gray
    20. Warburton
    21. Webb
    22. S Williams
    23. Watson


  • #458
    blackcard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭blackcard


    bilston wrote: »
    Murray was far better than Youngs today. But as ever a scrum half can only be as good as his pack lets him, but even still Murray has to be favourite for the 9 jersey.

    I reckon Youngs can offer something from the bench.

    Next week will tell a tale.


  • #459
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    What I would like to see not what I expect be it injury or my just being wrong:

    1. McGrath
    2. Best
    3. Furlong
    4. AWJ
    5. Itoje
    6. Stander
    7. SOB
    8. Vunipola
    9. Murray
    10. Sexton
    11. North
    12. Farrell
    13. Henshaw
    14. L Williams
    15. Hogg

    16. George
    17. Vunipola
    18. Cole
    19. Gray
    20. Warburton
    21. Webb
    22. S Williams
    23. Watson

    Good choices but there are eight Irish players there and I suspect that England will have a good six nations which will see them have the largest representation.


  • #460
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Clegg wrote: »
    Ben Youngs simply can't start for the Lions. Munster/Leicester was hyped as clash between the two front runners for the Lions 9 jersey. But for me there's no competition. It has to be Murray. When Youngs gets front foot ball he can be electric. Makes breaks and links well. But he's especially bad when the game is scrappy. Every scrum half struggles when their pack is on the back foot but Youngs seems to be hit worse than most. His passing goes to pot.

    Correct.

    Without Murray, Ireland/Lions are going nowhere fast.


  • #461
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    bilston wrote: »
    Murray was far better than Youngs today. But as ever a scrum half can only be as good as his pack lets him, but even still Murray has to be favourite for the 9 jersey.

    I reckon Youngs can offer something from the bench.

    Youngs was outstanding for England in November. If he replicates that in the Six Nations then he's got a very good chance of starting the tests. Yesterday won't affect his chances.

    Edit: and everyone seems to be forgetting Rhys Webb, who is due back for the 6N.

    Three great candidates for the jersey.


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  • #462
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gatland in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/10/dylan-hartley-england-sending-off-warren-gatland-lions

    It's funny, this reminds me a bit of his media interactions in the lead up to a match against Wales. Throwing a few wayward statements out to ratchet things up a bit. Interesting where things are all the same, obviously has concerns about Warburton staying fit, thought it was a slightly gruff reference.


  • #463
    Senator Palpatine
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 43 ✭Senator Palpatine


    Is anyone heading over to NZ?


  • #464
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Senator Palpatine wrote: »
    Is anyone heading over to NZ?

    Looking for a lift?


  • #465
    Earl Woods
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Earl Woods


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Looking for a lift?

    Already booked!


  • #466
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Earl Woods wrote: »
    Already booked!

    Lucky and rich!


  • #467
    Earl Woods
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Earl Woods


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Lucky and rich!

    If you organise it yourself, it's not so bad.


  • #468
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Gatland on Henshaw and Furlong. You'd have to guess that they're in with a very good shot of starting the tests. He'll probably talk up players from all 4 Nations but these two are pushing especially hard for the starting spots.
    "From an Irish point of view, I've been really impressed with Furlong," Gatland told Sky Sports. "He's done a great job. Hopefully his form continues as well. Henshaw was really outstanding in Chicago before he picked up that knock."


  • #469
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I'm going just doing this for my own entertainment... want to look back at this AFTER the 6N has finished, but my pre-6N 23 based on form from Europe and a little guess work...

    01. M. Vunipola
    02. Hartley
    03. Furlong
    04. Iotje
    05. AWJ
    06. Stander
    07. Warburton
    08. Heaslip
    09. Murray
    10. Farrell
    11. North
    12. Henshaw
    13. Davies
    14. Byrne (thanks Will!)
    15. Hogg

    16. Best
    17. McGrath
    18. Cole
    19. Henderson
    20. SOB
    21. Youngs
    22. Russell
    23. L. Williams


  • #470
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,049 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Four potential bolters

    Garry Ringrose - A big 6Ns and he can definitely make the tour, and once there who knows, I don't think there are any outstanding candidates at 13.

    Jamie George - His biggest issue is that the England captain plays his position, he is might be a better hooker than Hartley already. He is more likely to stay on the field which is a good start.

    Sam Davies - I think this kid is class. Will Wales pick him over Biggar? Doubtful, but I reckon Gatland may take him to NZ as the 2017 version of Stuart Hogg.

    Tommy Seymour - Not so much a bolter at this stage as he has been a try machine all season. Many would have him in the test side at the moment.


  • #471
    penybont exile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    bilston wrote: »
    Four potential bolters

    Garry Ringrose - A big 6Ns and he can definitely make the tour, and once there who knows, I don't think there are any outstanding candidates at 13.

    Jamie George - His biggest issue is that the England captain plays his position, he is might be a better hooker than Hartley already. He is more likely to stay on the field which is a good start.

    Sam Davies - I think this kid is class. Will Wales pick him over Biggar? Doubtful, but I reckon Gatland may take him to NZ as the 2017 version of Stuart Hogg.

    Tommy Seymour - Not so much a bolter at this stage as he has been a try machine all season. Many would have him in the test side at the moment.
    IMO Sam Davies should be in the Wales team for Sunday (with Biggar @12 and S Williams @13)

    Can't see him going on the Lions tour though.

    Haven't seen enough of Ringrose .... bit hit and miss from what I have seen. Could easily have been the fault of a loss to Australia in the autumn with that very poor kick (option & execution) at the end.


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  • #472
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Is a bolter a surprise pick or an uncapped player?

    Sam Davies is the best young 10 I've seen (albeit briefly) in this part of the world for some time. Should be a star for Wales for years.


  • #473
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Is a bolter a surprise pick or an uncapped player?

    Sam Davies is the best young 10 I've seen (albeit briefly) in this part of the world for some time. Should be a star for Wales for years.

    There hasn't been an uncapped Lion since Will Greenwood in 1997.

    I guess a bolter is someone who stakes his claims very late on, e.g. Keith Earls not featuring in the 2009 Six Nations but still going to South Africa, Stuart Hogg maybe in 2013.


  • #474
    MattD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭MattD


    Between 10, 12, 13 we're talking 8/9 players at most? It'll probably include Sexton, Ford, Farrell, Henshaw, Joseph, J. Davies and two others?

    Plenty of room for someone to impress in the 6N, whoever plays Welsh OH or in the Scottish centre or Ringrose.


  • #475
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,049 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    MattD wrote: »
    Between 10, 12, 13 we're talking 8/9 players at most? It'll probably include Sexton, Ford, Farrell, Henshaw, Joseph, J. Davies and two others?

    Plenty of room for someone to impress in the 6N, whoever plays Welsh OH or in the Scottish centre or Ringrose.
    MattD wrote: »
    Between 10, 12, 13 we're talking 8/9 players at most? It'll probably include Sexton, Ford, Farrell, Henshaw, Joseph, J. Davies and two others?

    Plenty of room for someone to impress in the 6N, whoever plays Welsh OH or in the Scottish centre or Ringrose.

    Finn Russell will most likely be there or thereabouts. I'd take him over Ford, however I'm not sure he has the killer instinct of Sexton or Farrell. That mentality is essential in NZ.


  • #476
    THFC198
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭THFC198


    I'll join .ak and predict a lions 23 pre 6N.
    1-M. Vunipola
    2-D. Hartley (C)
    3-T. Furlong
    4-M. Itoje
    5-A.W. Jones
    6-C.J Stander
    7- J. Tipuric
    8- B. Vunipola
    9- C. Murray
    10- J. Sexton
    11- G. North
    12- R. Henshaw
    13- J. Joseph
    14- A. Watson
    15-S. Hogg

    16-J. George
    17-J. McGrath
    18-W.P Nel
    19-J. Gray
    20-S. O'Brien
    21-B. Youngs
    22-O. Farrell
    23- L. Williams

    Nation break up
    Ireland-7
    Scotland-3
    Wales-4
    England-9


  • #477
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    THFC198 wrote: »
    Nation break up
    Ireland-7
    Scotland-3
    Wales-4
    England-9

    This is a Gatland Lions team. No chance there'll only be 4 Welsh players


  • #478
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,565 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Synode wrote: »
    This is a Gatland Lions team. No chance there'll only be 4 Welsh players

    actually theres a huge chance there would only be 4 (or less) welsh players in the preferred 23

    of the usual suspects, AWJ woudl be on most peoples list to start
    after that, North due to the lack of any stand out 11
    Tipuric is a great player but backrow competition is huge.
    Warburton may not even travel.
    Halfpenny may not travel.
    J Davies will be lucky to travel.
    L williams will be lucky to make the 23 and may only get there due to his versatility.
    Biggar may travel but will be in the dirt tracker squad.

    theres not many others who can currently claim to be in with a good shout


  • #479
    THFC198
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭THFC198


    Synode wrote: »

    This is a Gatland Lions team. No chance there'll only be 4 Welsh players

    Who else would you have in the starting 23?


  • #480
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,819 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    my green lions polo shirt just arrived from Lovell rugby. 52 euro including P&P and i got a free lions gym bag with it too

    35169.jpg


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  • #481
    corny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,841 ✭✭✭corny


    I like Mako Vunipola for his work rate and carrying but call me old fashioned ....a front rower needs to be able to scrummage. McGrath>Vunipola.


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