Elocution Lessons?

Aidia · 07-12-2016 4:37pm #1

Hello all,

First time poster so be nice! I know this is probably not the worst problem here but it's currently causing me some stress and wanted to see if anyone has ever done elocution lessons?

I moved from Ireland a few years ago and am finding that the way I've been saying things at home is not necessarily the correct way. The word that's probably causing me most stress at the moment believe it or not is my own name. My name is 'Beth' which you think would be easy enough but it seems that I have a problem pronouncing the 'th' part correctly and I've gotten to the stage where I hate introducing myself as no one ever understands me so I usually have to spell it and then they click 'Oh Beth'. I've found a place that does Skype elocution lessons and am thinking about giving it a go but wanted to check to see if anyone had ever dealt with this before? Or how you've dealt with it?

I know it sounds like a really small problem but I'm actually thinking of using an alias instead of my name so I don't have to pronounce it - that's how much people don't understand me!! I'm sure there are other words that cause me hassle but as this is the one I use the most, it's the one that stands out the most.

Atomicjuicer0 · 07-12-2016 6:19pm

We had them in class as little kids and I always remembered the lessons and found them very helpful.

Hard to communicate over text because of the way the teacher basically demonstrated with exaggerated facial gestures over and over for key sounds.

Now I'm a professional narrator. Not joking

silverharp · 07-12-2016 7:52pm

it is just an accent related?, I know when I moved to London I got a bit self conscious over a couple of pronunciations and I changed my "th" and started using the english "r" at the start of a word (but not the daft r's they put in the middle of words :pac: )

just a guess but it might be easier and cheaper to find a public speaking class maybe? and it might give you a chance to get a bit of a one to one

Dial Hard · 07-12-2016 8:10pm

A good drama class would be a good bet for you, OP.

One exercise I always remember from our elocution lessons in school was the "This, that, these and those" one. We had to say it ten times in a row, really exaggerating the fact that your tongue should be between your teeth to make the "th" sound properly.

There are loads more but as a previous poster has said, it's very difficult to describe them properly online. People will dismiss it as snobbery but I'm very much of the opinion that pronunciation counts. You can absolutely still allow for accents within that.

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 4:19am

I think you need to address why it's bothering you more than you need to get elocution lessons.

Firstly, there is no real "correct" pronunciations in English. If english is your first language then you are pronouncing it correctly. You probably just have a regional accent. Do you feel people look down on you due to a regional accent?

I'm not belittling your issue but I do wonder if you've blown it up in your head. Plenty of people would be given unusual names by their parents and have to spell it out anyway.

My advice would be to just spell it out when people ask, they'll be happy enough with that, and just move on in your head.

Of course if you want to drop your regional accent then that's perfectly OK, I know a few who have done it.

Aidia · 08-12-2016 11:47am

Thanks for the responses. I know I am probably making a bigger thing over it then I should be but I already get comments/remarks about my accent - yesterday alone I happened to say 'Thursday' and someone laughed at me and started saying 'Thursday and Three' in the thickest irish accent she could manage. I do laugh at it but when you hear constant remarks like this and comments like oh we don't have three (in irish accent) here, we have three (in proper english accent) so after a while it does start to get to me.

I do need to get more confidence with public speaking as have started to shy away on this so might think about trying some public speaking or some drama classes instead of the elocution.
Also to people who wonder why it's affecting me so much - it's something that I never thought of at home but seems to be an issue over here and I think having people make remarks 5 years later it just starts to wear on you. I'm normally a confident person but the accent is a bit of a sensitive spot at the moment.

Thank you all for your kind replies though - am going to definitely look into doing something and actually have to confidence to just address people who laugh at my accent and say it's not on and I don't like it.

Edit - just to add I actually want to keep my accent but I just want to be able to pronounce things properly and not have any remarks!

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 2:53pm

Aidia wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. I know I am probably making a bigger thing over it then I should be but I already get comments/remarks about my accent - yesterday alone I happened to say 'Thursday' and someone laughed at me and started saying 'Thursday and Three' in the thickest irish accent she could manage. I do laugh at it but when you hear constant remarks like this and comments like oh we don't have three (in irish accent) here, we have three (in proper english accent) so after a while it does start to get to me.

I do need to get more confidence with public speaking as have started to shy away on this so might think about trying some public speaking or some drama classes instead of the elocution.
Also to people who wonder why it's affecting me so much - it's something that I never thought of at home but seems to be an issue over here and I think having people make remarks 5 years later it just starts to wear on you. I'm normally a confident person but the accent is a bit of a sensitive spot at the moment.

Thank you all for your kind replies though - am going to definitely look into doing something and actually have to confidence to just address people who laugh at my accent and say it's not on and I don't like it.

Edit - just to add I actually want to keep my accent but I just want to be able to pronounce things properly and not have any remarks!

If it were me they made fun of Id rip the piss out of their accent back.

OP I'm trained as a linguist. The idea of speaking "correctly" is completely frowned upon by modern linguists. Just because they're english doesn't mean their version of English is the right one. If you say "tree" instead of "three" or something you are still speaking perfectly good english. Even within England people pronounce things very differently.

I realise the above may not feel helpful but they are the facts, and anyone who makes fun of your accent is a right arsehole.

woodchuck · 08-12-2016 2:59pm

I don't think elocution lessons are the answer. Sure even if it "works", the people who slag you will notice the way you're speaking has changed and then slag you over that!!

I think this boils down to standing up for yourself. If you laugh along with them when they make fun of you, how are they supposed to know it's bothering you? Just tell them you don't appreciate it!

Big Bag of Chips · 08-12-2016 3:06pm

I guess you are saying 'th' with your tongue back in your mouth rather than touching the bottom of your top teeth. Practice it. Exaggerate it at first and it will eventually become second nature and more relaxed.

"The lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue".

Say it slowly and really exaggerate your mouth movements. Really open your mouth. Bring "the tip of the tongue" to touch the bottom of your teeth. Exaggerate it.

There's YouTube tutorials for everything these days! You might find something that helps.

But also, don't get too worked up. If people find it difficult to understand you, as soon as someone asks your name just get used to saying "Beth, B-e-t-h". Luckily it's a short enough name

I have an unusual married name. I also lived in an area that's unusually named. I spend my entire time spelling my surname, spelling the first line of my address then spelling the second line of my address!

cactusgal · 08-12-2016 4:17pm

Having people comment on and imitate your accent is extremely irritating, I can understand where you're coming from. I'm an American living in Ireland, and I hate it when strangers comment on my accent, or when people imitate it. It's so rude. As an aside, I think most people wouldn't imitate a Chinese or Indian person's accent to their face, because they know that it's impolite and insensitive. So why do it to other people, ie American, Irish abroad, etc??

I agree with an earlier poster, instead of laughing along with it, just say that you don't appreciate the comments; if you don't want to say anything, just stay silent. The fact that you aren't laughing shows that you don't find it funny and it might get the message across.

If it's just one sound that you're worried about (t vs th), you can find loads of EFL sites online that help students pronounce individual sounds, you might find them helpful.

Merkin · 08-12-2016 5:49pm

I think good pronunciation or lack thereof can leave a lasting impression and if you're in a position whereby you can't actually pronounce your own name properly then it is imperative that you address it. Elocution would be a really good idea and discuss how best they can help you iron out any other mispronunciation that might pepper your speech. People are saying here that it doesn't matter but it genuinely does and people will judge you for it whether you like it or not. Your actual accent is incidental as long as you are actually able to enunciate properly.

ongarboy · 08-12-2016 6:47pm

OP, I went to a summer camp in American when I was 12 and that was the first time I was aware that I did not pronounce my th's. I pronounced 3 as tree, I had a cabin mate called Theo whom I addressed as Teo. I couldn't understand why everyone broke down laughing when I said I came turd in a race (I came 3rd!).:D:D

It was a wake up call because everyone in Ireland in my rural town generally spoke the same as me. When I J1'ed in San Francisco aged 20 and lived a year in Australia at 23, I had switch board and call centre type jobs and no-one could understand when I called out the number 8. They kept thinking I said aish. When I ordered a pot of beer in Melbourne (their pint equivalent), they thought I said posh of beer. It's only when abroad, that I noticed these things.

The th teasing did make me self conscious enough that I started focusing on how I pronounce th's so I mostly (not always) pronounce them correctly now. However, I still cannot pronounce Howth correctly (even Dubliners laugh when I do....I end up saying Hote!!). I'd probably call you Bet instead of Beth if I met you!!:)

I guess this is my long winded way of saying, please don't worry about it. There is no reason why you can't self practice and if you slip up, that's ok. It's a quirk of your accent and regional dialect of where you came from and you should be proud of it, not so ashamed of it to consider altering your name. It was only for professional reasons and to prevent having to repeat myself over and over again with customers on calls abroad that I modified how I said certain words. Outside of work or where I knew I wouldn't be understood, I spoke as I do now. It has never impacted me professionally as regards interviews or career advancement. In fact one attribute that I am consistently highly rated on in any performance appraisal I've ever received in my line of work (manager in finance industry) is my excellent verbal communication. The emphasis is more on relaying, articulating and tailoring information to be understood by the appropriate audience.

Aidia · 08-12-2016 9:31pm

Guys can I first of all say thanks to everyone who has replied - makes me feel so much better that I'm not over reacting about this. Just to address a few of you:

Cactusgal - thanks for letting me know it works both ways. I'm sure it's common everywhere but it does annoy me that people feel they can tease native english speakers for their accent but if they tried doing that with someone who speaks english as a second language then there would be uproar. I suppose out of everything that's happening it's only something small but it does feel personal when it's constantly happening to you all day long.
I can't really address the problem with people in work as it could cause trouble but I'm going to go with you and just not laugh at it anymore - by laughing it seems acceptable so at least if I stay silent then maybe they'll realise it's not on and I won't have caused any friction.

Ongarboy - thank you for a great post - you've hit the nail on everything I've been trying to say so thank you for putting it in better terms -I can see why your appraisals go so well! You are spot on and I'm not Beth - I'm Bet. I think the problem is I'm also trying to correct myself but I don't know quite how to so I'm making the situation even worse so instead of trying 'Beth/Bet' I'm trying to really over pronounce and it comes out as Bettt (from what I gather) which really confuses people.

Big Bag of Chips - that little tip of yours might actually work and even doing it now it seems to me there is a bit of a change. Totally going to try it in front of my friends and see if they notice the difference. Good thing I don't live with anyone because I'm currently here repeating Thursday, Beth, Three to see the difference.

Again to everyone else, I usually do say my name and then spell it straight away when they don't understand. Thankfully as you said it's not long but then they go 'Oh Beth'...... Yes that's what I said! I will also try and start to ignore people and not take it so personal - I think I've just had a bad week and the woman in work teasing me really hit a soft spot when I usually might leave it go over my head.

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 10:10pm

Merkin wrote: »

I think good pronunciation or lack thereof can leave a lasting impression and if you're in a position whereby you can't actually pronounce your own name properly then it is imperative that you address it. Elocution would be a really good idea and discuss how best they can help you iron out any other mispronunciation that might pepper your speech. People are saying here that it doesn't matter but it genuinely does and people will judge you for it whether you like it or not. Your actual accent is incidental as long as you are actually able to enunciate properly.

She's not mispronouncing words though. The elite accent some english people have is not the correct one with everone else being wrong.

I do agree that people can be judgemental on accents though and if you feel it might affect your career then I might be a good idea to soften your accent a little.

Merkin · 08-12-2016 10:27pm

Erm, did you read any of my post?

The OP is most assuredly mispronouncing her own name which has nothing to do with elitism. It's why everyone has to ask her to repeat it and she's cognisant of this given she says it and then spells it immediately after.

I also didn't say anything re altering her accent.

Katgurl · 08-12-2016 10:30pm

My dad sent me for elocution lessons when I was young as he claimed I was mumbling. I know I sound confident when I speak now and people respond positively to that. It's like investing in your teeth; an unselfconscious smile alludes to confidence.

I do agree it's not necessary though and other people being rude and imitating you reflects badly on you, not them. But if you feel they would enhance your life and you can afford them, I say get them!

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 10:33pm

Merkin wrote: »

Erm, did you read any of my post?

The OP is most assuredly mispronouncing her own name which has nothing to do with elitism. It's why everyone has to ask her to repeat it and she's cognisant of this given she says it and then spells it immediately after.

I also didn't say anything re altering her accent.

She's not. People in her area would all pronounce her name that way. Just like saying "tree" instead of "three" is
Not incorrect.

Merkin · 08-12-2016 10:36pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

She's not. People in her area would all pronounce her name that way. Just like saying "tree" instead of "three" is
Not incorrect.

It is massively incorrect. If unsure phonetics can help massively.

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 10:38pm

Merkin wrote: »

It is massively incorrect. If unsure phonetics can help massively.

It's really not. Not having a go at you Merkin but "correct pronunciation" is a very old fashioned (pre 1950s) concept that no modern linguist takes seriously.

Teyla Emmagan · 08-12-2016 10:46pm

LLMMLL wrote:

She's not. People in her area would all pronounce her name that way. Just like saying "tree" instead of "three" is Not incorrect.

No, they wouldn't. Some of them might alright but others with the same accent would still say their "th"s correctly.

Anyway OP, I understand how annoying you must find having to spell out your own name for people! There have been some great pronunciation exercises given in this thread. Between those and a few YouTube videos I am sure you'll be flying in no time!

LLMMLL · 08-12-2016 10:51pm

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

No, they wouldn't. Some of them might alright but others with the same accent would still say their "th"s correctly.

Well you're right that not everyone has a regional accent. I don't have my local accent, Basically because my parents are snobs.

But you're wrong that the standard pronunciation of "th" is "correct".

I think it would genuinely help the OP to realise that she is not speaking "wrong". Unfortunately. Laypeople are incredibly resistant to the idea that every native english speaker speaks correctly.

neonsofa · 08-12-2016 10:53pm

Op I speak very different to those brought up in my area, I guess I have a bit of an accent as people always ask where I am from and when I tell them I'm from the area they ask "no originally, like your home country", most people think UK or America, the odd few guess Russian. I can't understand how exactly I speak differently and I get self conscious. Especially when saying my name so I sympathise. Yet if I'm away people will know where I'm from the second they hear me speak. I don't really know what my issue is so I can't correct it but I've learned to accept it. This doesn't really help you but I guess if you will feel more confident having some lessons go for it, especially as your name is something you'll need to say a lot!

InTheTrees · 09-12-2016 1:08am

LLMMLL wrote: »

If it were me they made fun of Id rip the piss out of their accent back.

If you live in a foreign country where most people have a different accent to you its not that easy (or socially acceptable) to start making fun of the locals accents in return.

I sympathise with the OP. I've lived in america for years and while they love our accent its still a struggle to make oneself understood so one makes adjustments. You either do that or they just dont understand you.

Just telling americans i'm from ireland, they hear me saying "Island" so they stare at me blankly untill i'm forced to pronounce it in their accent Aye-rr-land.

Aufbau · 09-12-2016 1:36am

Elocution teachers are trained to teach you how to actually make different sounds, with different positions of your tongue and lips. So go get your elocution lessons and learn how to make the sounds that you want. Then you can decide what pronunciation you want to use and when.

It's all very well to say that it's correct to pronounce words in different regional accents, but many people judge you by your pronunciation, for example in job situations. No point sitting on your high horse when you didn't get the promotion you wanted. People feel more comfortable with others that speak the same way that they do themselves. It helps when you blend in.

Chocolate fiend · 09-12-2016 3:04am

It is hard on to ear when people don't say "th" in the correct way, or at least in the way we believe to be correct. It makes me cringe a little and I know that's not nice or a good thing to say but, it is just such a stereotype of us abroad that it is hard when you hear someone playing into other people's ideas of us.

I have had people say to me "say 33" or other such stupid things, I don't perform for them, and even if I did I say 33 in a very similar way to most people where I live, except I say it with an Irish accent.

We did almost call our youngest son Jethro though, but, because of having a lot of family in Cork we just couldn't do it. I have a friend with a son named Ethan, and it is pronounced like "eatin"

OP you sound like you just need a bit more confidence, and to be honest that woman in the office sounds like she would just be mean about something else anyway, that is the way a bully works.

mighty magpie · 15-12-2016 4:03pm

Chocolate fiend wrote: »

It is hard on to ear when people don't say "th" in the correct way, or at least in the way we believe to be correct. It makes me cringe a little and I know that's not nice or a good thing to say but, it is just such a stereotype of us abroad that it is hard when you hear someone playing into other people's ideas of us.

I have had people say to me "say 33" or other such stupid things, I don't perform for them, and even if I did I say 33 in a very similar way to most people where I live, except I say it with an Irish accent.

We did almost call our youngest son Jethro though, but, because of having a lot of family in Cork we just couldn't do it. I have a friend with a son named Ethan, and it is pronounced like "eatin"

OP you sound like you just need a bit more confidence, and to be honest that woman in the office sounds like she would just be mean about something else anyway, that is the way a bully works.

'eatin' is awful and certainly incorrect.

I would have a gamble that OP is saying Bet instead of Beth which again is incorrect.

Big Bag of Chips · 15-12-2016 6:09pm

I'd say it's more likely "Besh", which is a common enough pronunciation of the sound, in my part of the country at least. We were thinking of calling one child Ruth, until my husband said nobody around here would be able to pronounce it. She would either become "Root" or "Roosh"!

Anne_cordelia · 15-12-2016 9:34pm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I'd say it's more likely "Besh", which is a common enough pronunciation of the sound, in my part of the country at least. We were thinking of calling one child Ruth, until my husband said nobody around here would be able to pronounce it. She would either become "Root" or "Roosh"!

Yikes! People really speak like that?! Urgh couldn't cope with those pronunciations!

blairbear · 15-12-2016 11:20pm

I really disagree with the argument that any colloquial pronunciation is acceptable or inherently correct, merely by dint of the fact it is widely used.

By that logic, the now ubiquitous use of "could of/would of/should of" instead of "could've/would've etc" is good English, as so many people have a poor grasp of grammar and mistakenly use these nonsensical phrases.

The inability to pronounce your 'th's is something that can be corrected, as other posters have pointed out and the OP should be encouraged in wanting to speak well. It sounds far more educated and polished. I find it very difficult to listen to "tree" instead of three etc.

OP, I would certainly try to find elocution lessons to attend or the equivalent online tutorials. Record yourself speaking on your phone and compare this to someone who would be universally regarded as well-spoken, e.g. a newsreader.

LLMMLL · 16-12-2016 6:57am

blairbear wrote: »

I really disagree with the argument that any colloquial pronunciation is acceptable or inherently correct, merely by dint of the fact it is widely used.

By that logic, the now ubiquitous use of "could of/would of/should of" instead of "could've/would've etc" is good English, as so many people have a poor grasp of grammar and mistakenly use these nonsensical phrases.

The inability to pronounce your 'th's is something that can be corrected, as other posters have pointed out and the OP should be encouraged in wanting to speak well. It sounds far more educated and polished. I find it very difficult to listen to "tree" instead of three etc.

OP, I would certainly try to find elocution lessons to attend or the equivalent online tutorials. Record yourself speaking on your phone and compare this to someone who would be universally regarded as well-spoken, e.g. a newsreader.

Look it's fine if you're coming from the perspective that people will judge you for having a "local" accent, and it may be advantageous to change that accent. If someone feels speaking a certain way will aid their career path then I wouldn't begrudge them changing it.

But you are completely wrong in your perspective that these people do not understand grammar. It's not that they can't pronounce "th". It's that people in the area they grew up in mostly said "tree" instead of "three".

If this is hard for you to hear then it's an issue YOU have. Please don't persist in thinking you are correct and they are incorrect.

Language changes all the time. Why don't you say "thee" and "thou"? That was standard English at one time.

"Could of" is an interesting case. Firstly "could of" and "could've" sound exactly alike. You and these "incorrect" people are actually saying the exact same thing. You just write it differently. And there's a case to be made that "could of" is so common now that it's "correct" english.

zoobizoo · 16-12-2016 11:34am

I think it's useful to differentiate between Accent and Diction.

There's no problem having an accent - we all have one.

There is a problem if you are not pronouncing words correctly.

Elocution Lessons?

Comments