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Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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Comments

  • #1802
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i do my best to ignore your posts so that is not true.



    FGM is not the preserve of muslims. It is practiced by christians and other religions as well. That is not hair-splitting.

    Nobody said it was ''the preserve of muslims''!

    If you do your best to ignore my posts you need to try a lot harder in future. Why don't you use the Block feature? You only ever respond to have a swipe because you've totally misunderstood whatever I wrote.


  • #1803
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I think more about everyday things alright. I certainly don't care more about little everyday things though. If you constantly focused on serious things you'd end up morose. However LON is supposedly running a feminist ..thing..that's more the kind of place and time to be highlighting serious stuff.

    What feminist thing is she running? Is she not just writing a newspaper column?


  • #1804
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    What feminist thing is she running? Is she not just writing a newspaper column?

    Books, column, twitter, public appearances, interviews, possibly a blog? She's in the public eye more than enough.


  • #1805
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Books, column, twitter, public appearances, interviews, possibly a blog? She's in the public eye more than enough.

    Sure, but she's not actually running any feminist… thing.


  • #1806
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Sure, but she's not actually running any feminist… thing.

    It looks like she is to me, is that ok with you?


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  • #1807
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    I think she's already aware of it / us :P


    https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/794815337418067968

    In all fariness, she's got bit of a sweet gig going there.

    Maybe I could pretend to be a woman and write a book about the patriarchy.

    I'll call my first novel Woman is an Object.


  • #1808
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Widdershins wrote: »
    It looks like she is to me, is that ok with you?

    She's just giving her own opinions on things. I don't think most people are aware of her or even know who she is. I've read her books and enjoyed them but I'm not a disciple because of that. Tbh if you go looking for views on Twitter you'll find all sorts of idiots, she's just one. Best thing to do is ignore them. 120 odd pages dedicated to her just empowers her to continue.


  • #1809
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    eviltwin wrote: »
    She's just giving her own opinions on things. I don't think most people are aware of her or even know who she is. I've read her books and enjoyed them but I'm not a disciple because of that. Tbh if you go looking for views on Twitter you'll find all sorts of idiots, she's just one. Best thing to do is ignore them. 120 odd pages dedicated to her just empowers her to continue.

    I'm not on Twitter. She comes up as a suggestion from the Times on the Yahoo Mail page. She's paid for her views. I'm just sharing my views-that it's a waste of a platform when there are womens plights that deserve to be highlighted.


  • #1810
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    FortySeven wrote: »
    We're not talking about ordinary women here. We're talking about agitators, organisers and demonstrators.

    Where are the bare breasted women protesting in Dubai? In Saudi? No, they'd rather do it at the safe end of society. In London or New York where they are already safe and free to do so.

    I know there are decent feminists out there, why aren't they telling these minority idiots to shut up? They're giving the majority a very bad name and it is undeserved. I support egalitarian feminism but to be frank, they're not anywhere to 've seen or heard.

    We are the majority.
    Most women realise we have never in the west had it better.
    There are things that have to change here in Ireland and the west. Abortion rights primarily in Ireland. I protested the 8th Amendment.
    I hate the term rape culture and I have my reasons for that: not just that it demeans men; it lets perpetrators off the hook; and it's too glib and simplistic. Society has a problem with sexual violence. But I would argue it's down to silencing and fear and ignorance and I would argue the primary victims are children. It reduces the power of the word, takes away its shock value.
    I try and push for a middle ground where I can (and I will not visit Saudi, Dubai etc; it's a no-brainer to me, I couldn't rest easy having gone to places like that) but the thing is millions of women will sing along to Baby It's Cold Outside this Christmas because people don't care about these trivialities.
    I think I will delete my Twitter account because I tried to engage in a discussion tonight which led me being absolutely personally, horribly criticised. Twitter is horrible; it has positives but it's nasty, and the character limit leads to disaster.
    To anybody reading this thinking that this is how all women think, delete Twitter and talk to some women in reality.


  • #1811
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Also. One thing that really has impact on rape victims is the cuts in funding to the RCC. 70% last year alone. I didn't watch Louise's programme but can someone please tell me this was at least mentioned?

    Because I'll be blunt, all the words in the world won't help rape victims in this country, but cold hard cash for services will.


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  • #1812
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    ivytwine wrote: »
    I didn't watch Louise's programme but can someone please tell me this was at least mentioned?

    Not that I can recall but it's still available to view on the RTE Player if you want to watch it.


  • #1813
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Not that I can recall but it's still available to view on the RTE Player if you want to watch it.

    I may steel myself up for it.


  • #1814
    CaptainInsano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭CaptainInsano


    There's a really good Joe Rogan podcast picking apart SJW's I watched recently. Well worth a watch. A big thing that stood out to me was the application of class guilt to undermine and create distrust of a group. For example white men's opinions matter less, or should be ignored, because of slavery and the historical oppression of women means we've already proven that we are deeply flawed at this stage and need to bow to the enlightened. An obviously nonsensical and dangerous precedent.

    Also they discuss Canada's attempt to write into law the recognition of over 70 new pronouns. Apparently people who feel that they are an elf trapped inside a human body should be taken seriously now.


  • #1815
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    CaptainInsano wrote: »
    There's a really good Joe Rogan podcast picking apart SJW's I watched recently. Well worth a watch. A big thing that stood out to me was the application of class guilt to undermine and create distrust of a group. For example white men's opinions matter less, or should be ignored, because of slavery and the historical oppression of women means we've already proven that we are deeply flawed at this stage and need to bow to the enlightened. An obviously nonsensical and dangerous precedent.

    Also they discuss Canada's attempt to write into law the recognition of over 70 new pronouns. Apparently people who feel that they are an elf trapped inside a human body should be taken seriously now.

    His guest was Jordan Peterson, a professor from university of Toronto. The new legislation over there is a real eye opener as to where all this nonsense could lead us. The SJW types don't just want to tell people what words they can't use but actively force them to use certain phrases. There is a very clear distinction between banning certain words and forcing people to use others. The latter being a very insidious development and should not be tolerated.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1816
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    CaptainInsano wrote: »
    There's a really good Joe Rogan podcast picking apart SJW's I watched recently. Well worth a watch.

    Joe's a bit hit and miss but I love the following clip from eight or nine years ago where Lydia Lunch (the once cute 80's punk feminist) starts shit with him back stage and asks him (about 1m 30s in) to look her in the eye when he is speaking to her... ouch :o


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXUd7VxuSA


  • #1817
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    ivytwine wrote: »
    I think I will delete my Twitter account because I tried to engage in a discussion tonight which led me being absolutely personally, horribly criticised. Twitter is horrible; it has positives but it's nasty, and the character limit leads to disaster.
    To anybody reading this thinking that this is how all women think, delete Twitter and talk to some women in reality.

    Was it feminists you fell out with on twitter or people arguing against feminism?


  • #1818
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    midnight city wrote: »
    Was it feminists you fell out with on twitter or people arguing against feminism?

    A feminist. I can handle being called a bitch. I don't like being pathologised and having the DSM thrown at me.


  • #1819
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    DSM?


  • #1820
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    JRant wrote: »
    His guest was Jordan Peterson, a professor from university of Toronto. The new legislation over there is a real eye opener as to where all this nonsense could lead us. The SJW types don't just want to tell people what words they can't use but actively force them to use certain phrases. There is a very clear distinction between banning certain words and forcing people to use others. The latter being a very insidious development and should not be tolerated.

    I watched a few of his videos he is a very good speaker. I think he studied so much of what went wrong in the soviet union and china etc that he fears identity politics, silencing free speech etc can lead to dangerous places.


  • #1821
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Zulu wrote: »
    DSM?

    Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

    There's absolutely a conversation to be had on this topic, but I would prefer a focus on sentencing, judicial attitudes and funding for services. Not glam or fun.

    I think Wibbs earlier in the thread said something about the current situation raising money for the participants. Unfortunately this is not being reflected on the services that help victims; the people who actually do the grim work of advocacy, counselling and help.


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  • #1822
    me_right_one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    ivytwine wrote: »
    We are the majority.
    Most women realise we have never in the west had it better.
    There are things that have to change here in Ireland and the west. Abortion rights primarily in Ireland. ...

    https://www.facebook.com/SupportForProLifeAdvocatesWorldwide/photos/a.897833943626999.1073741826.897832566960470/1128368307240227/?type=3&theater

    ivytwine wrote: »
    I try and push for a middle ground where I can (and I will not visit Saudi, Dubai etc; it's a no-brainer to me, I couldn't rest easy having gone to places like that) ....

    Cop out


  • #1823
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    ivytwine wrote: »
    A feminist. I can handle being called a bitch. I don't like being pathologised and having the DSM thrown at me.

    What did she try to diagnose you as?


  • #1824
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    me_right_one wrote: »
    https://www.facebook.com/SupportForProLifeAdvocatesWorldwide/photos/a.897833943626999.1073741826.897832566960470/1128368307240227/?type=3&theater




    Cop out

    Thread's not the place for an abortion debate. I am pro-choice. It's quite possibly the major feminist issue left in this country.

    Can you please illustrate the cop-out? Am I to set up a vigil outside the Saudi embassy?


  • #1825
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Widdershins wrote: »
    What did she try to diagnose you as?

    I've got no boundaries apparently and I'm a victim blamer.


  • #1826
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    ivytwine wrote: »
    I've got no boundaries apparently and I'm a victim blamer.

    Edit: she's pretty prominent and I don't want to draw her down on me further. I regret mentioning it now :(


  • #1827
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    ivytwine wrote: »
    I've got no boundaries apparently and I'm a victim blamer.

    Forget about rape as a crime for one sec - a relative was broken into, robbed loads.

    Insurance company tried to tell her that as she'd left the bathroom window open - that's why she was robbed.

    Were they victim blaming ? Or just applying common sense ???


  • #1828
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    Forget about rape as a crime for one sec - a relative was broken into, robbed loads.

    Insurance company tried to tell her that as she'd left the bathroom window open - that's why she was robbed.

    Were they victim blaming ? Or just applying common sense ???

    Good question. Is it normally a condition of home insurance that all windows are closed and does it apply to robberies that happen while you're at home? I often sleep with a *second storey* window or two open for fresh air! My granny used to say she'd suffocate without a window open..

    On the feminist diagnosing IvyTwine..I hate that behaviour but admit it crossed my mind that LON's articles sound like they're written with HPD, or Histrionic Personality Disorder. I know someone who was officially diagnosed and she reminds me an awful lot of her. Not good form to throw a diagnosis at someone based on very little, though.


  • #1829
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    Forget about rape as a crime for one sec - a relative was broken into, robbed loads.

    Insurance company tried to tell her that as she'd left the bathroom window open - that's why she was robbed.

    Were they victim blaming ? Or just applying common sense ???

    Being an insurance company they probably are trying to avoid paying out :D

    It's common sense. Buuuuuttt. Is it really necessary to do? Your relative probably already feels like it's her fault. So in that sense I don't think I'd turn around and tell someone it's their fault if they got robbed.

    In that sense it's not kind to do this a person no matter the crime. Where things get dangerous for personal safety is when people shout down those advising taking precautions as victim blaming. It's like that section in guidebooks which advise areas to avoid in a certain city... is that victim blaming?

    It's all so nuanced and that's where Twitter etc fall down.


  • #1830
    ivytwine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ivytwine


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Good question. Is it normally a condition of home insurance that all windows are closed and does it apply to robberies that happen while you're at home? I often sleep with a window or two open for fresh air! My granny used to say she'd suffocate without a window open..

    On the feminist diagnosing IvyTwine..I hate that behaviour but admit it crossed my mind that LON's articles sound like they're written with HPD, or Histrionic Personality Disorder. I know someone who was officially diagnosed and she reminds me an awful lot of her. Not good form to throw a diagnosis at someone based on very little, though.

    Nope. Pathologising people's behaviour based on very little is a dangerous, slippery slope. Diagnosis should only be done by a psychiatrist.

    I haven't heard of HPD. My main disagreement with LON is that she doesn't allow for nuance, discussion or disagreement.


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  • #1831
    iDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    JRant wrote: »
    His guest was Jordan Peterson, a professor from university of Toronto. The new legislation over there is a real eye opener as to where all this nonsense could lead us. The SJW types don't just want to tell people what words they can't use but actively force them to use certain phrases. There is a very clear distinction between banning certain words and forcing people to use others. The latter being a very insidious development and should not be tolerated.

    Jordan Peterson is a man we all need to listen to.


This discussion has been closed.
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