How come Tinder is so difficult?

professore · 04-12-2016 09:16PM

leggo wrote: »

Yeah sorry, I got that based on your initial reply to me, when I said 'you' I didn't mean you specifically!

And I don't think the argument about women with make-up etc is still relevant in 2016. I'll often get slagged when people see my bathroom with the amount of moisturisers etc in there! If you're a man and want to take care of your looks it can be done and it's not even a thing anymore, everyone is doing it. So if you're not, again that's a conscious choice and your matches/success in general will reflect that.

You mean men use moisturiser now ????

beks101 · 04-12-2016 09:23PM

I actually think tinder and its like is doing a great job of creating a massive Checkpoint-Charlie-style standoff between the sexes to the point where there's an increasing amount of bitter, disgruntled singletons walking around hating the opposite sex for really odd reasons.

I agree with Onionbelt that there's a certain narcissism and neurosis that goes hand-in-hand with these dating apps - that largely reflects social media as a whole - and that causes people to focus on the wrong traits (i.e being a ride and being a damn good salesman about it), over-compete with each other (#instaqueen) and invest no real time or energy in getting to know any individual because they've been disappointed too many times or they're so habituated to swiping and matching and meeting that it's simply hard to stop.

These "all men/all women" claims have absolutely no resonance with me or with any of my coupled up mates around me. You get sucked into a bubble of bullsh1t on tinder and POF and OKCupid and start to live by the shallow "dating rules" they instill in you. Women only go for the hottest blokes who are 6ft + with abs of steel...unless he's captain of the national rugby team and on seven figures.

I probably would have swiped passed my own boyfriend if I'd met him on tinder. Because he's no Brad Pitt and a shyte salesman at that. He's educated and talented but I've got the bigger salary and have always had male attention. A dating no-go surely! In reality he's always had beautiful girlfriends (intimidatingly so) and is the best partner and best friend I've ever had. None of which would have been gaugeable on tinder or would have been a particularly good sales pitch either. I learned it all in real life, first as colleagues and then as more.

It's sad to me how cynical we've all become, how frustrated and unhappy in romance so many are to the point where you can't simply look at a couple and think "they look happy together" as opposed to it being a case of the woman being a gold digger who only loves his social status or the guy being in that "20%" of goodlooking guys who wouldn't get a look-in if it wasn't for his chiselled jaw. Sometimes two people meet and they just click - for every reason and for no reason at all. It just doesn't seem to happen as naturally online as everyone's so busy dissecting the sh1t out of everyone else's motives or their suitability based on the most shallow of traits that ultimately count for fcuk all when it comes down to it.

zulutango · 04-12-2016 09:27PM

Wibbs wrote:

As I say in my experience, YMMV.

YMMV?

Pat Mustard · 04-12-2016 09:29PM

zulutango wrote: »

YMMV?

Your mileage may vary.

onrail · 04-12-2016 09:34PM

BabyE wrote: »

Anyone have success off it

In a LTR (going on 2 years) following Tinder. Plan to marry the girl

I'm fairly unconventional looking, 5'7" and not at all wealthy, but found an OH who's Champion's League to my LOI and better than anything I could ever have hoped for. I was in your boat early on with it early on but honestly PATIENCE IS EVERYTHING.

I could write a terrible "top-10-Tinder-tips for the Unphotogenic/Irish", but currently trying to sell the idea to joe.ie for €1,000,000

Best of luck OP. She's out there

04-12-2016 09:46PM

My Tinder story was initially frustrating but eventually went very well.

I was looking for something serious, which means I was probably using the wrong platform to start with. Most of those who I matched with didn't bother responding or unmatched me immediately. Others, I just didn't click with (and that's OK, you can't expect it to go well every time). I ended up with a few dates; a childcare worker and secondary school teacher being among the professions. Perfectly good women, just had no spark when we met.

Then I had the odd ones. One who lied about where she was from (said Howth but actually Coolock) and insisted on a cinema date, which went terribly. Another one went on a second date with me but decided not to see me again because I wasn't forward enough, even though she complained about men treating her like crap. Also had a match who, off the bat, suggested I meet her in Limerick for sex. Ehh, no.

I took a break after going on the dates as I felt emotionally drained and needed to recharge. I rejoined earlier this year and had more of the same. But then I matched with a woman on the other side of the country, how I still don't know because my radius was set to 40km. We got on well so I thought I had nothing to lose by trying and took a bus there over a long weekend. We've now been together for 6 months.

My girlfriend said that her friend talked her into joining and initially her friend was swiping on her behalf. Her friend was only swiping right to men who "looked like Calvin Klein models" whereas my girlfriend was more realistic about the whole thing.

I don't know if I was lucky or persistent! Probably both.

LLMMLL · 04-12-2016 10:15PM

Wibbs wrote: »

There's some truth to that alright, though IMH and in my experience obvious disparities in looks are more the outliers and when they occur a bit of cursory digging usually turns up a balance in other areas. IE the guy if the less physically attractive he is bringing something else to the party. In the reverse case it's often something along the lines of the guy dropping the ball in other areas. EG one chap I knew years ago, good looking man, tall and athletic. He got lots of interest from women. Initially, but he had the conversational skills of a house brick, so few pursued beyond the short term and physical. All his long termers were best described, if unkindly, as plain. I can certainly say that in my experience down the years when for example guys have told me they're shocked and consider themselves very lucky as their girlfriend is "out of their league", I don't see much of a disparity going on. As I say in my experience, YMMV.

Yeah but that extra that the OK looking guy is bringing is usually a good personality. And not in the sense that he's super charming. Lots of women have no interest in this guy. This PARTICULAR woman particularly liked his personality. It was two individuals that met and connected. Some of the posters on here would have you believe some part of her brain that is common across human females did a calculation unawares to her.

midnight city · 04-12-2016 11:05PM

professore wrote: »

Women have an arsenal of makeup, hair products etc they can use to hide their flaws and maximise their beauty. Men not so much.

You are right. Look at this link, click into the photos so you can scroll through them one at a time. Focus on the photo of them make up free, often you'll have to look at the made up photo to recognise them. That says a lot.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=famous+women+without+makeup&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil0rDJxNvQAhUIBcAKHeYZAfEQsAQIHw#imgrc=hhHCgQuxYFIucM%3A

Wibbs · 04-12-2016 11:13PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yeah but that extra that the OK looking guy is bringing is usually a good personality. And not in the sense that he's super charming. Lots of women have no interest in this guy. This PARTICULAR woman particularly liked his personality. It was two individuals that met and connected. Some of the posters on here would have you believe some part of her brain that is common across human females did a calculation unawares to her.

Oh, don't get me wrong LL, I agree with you to a larger extent than not. I was just going on the more general front. The interwebs and tinder tend to exaggerate such general things and as beks101 noted the interweb opinions are really souring the milk for some.

Outside of the interwebs I would say we all have a "range of attraction" to some degree or other. A range of people that will happen to like the cut of our overall jib and not always for obvious(to others) reasons. Some of course have a wider range than others. Brad Pitt has a huge range compared to say Paul from accounts. I've seen this in my own life. My range was/is narrow enough and certainly narrower than many, but wider than others too and within that range there were outliers at both ends of things. Generally though my long termers were about the same as me overall attractiveness wise. None were "out of my league" or vice versa. It's very much about the overall package mind you. As a callow youth

I did think one or two were "out of my league" and I came to that conclusion because their exes and the guys after me were quite simply better looking. However upon closer inspection, the same guys weren't the sharpest axes in the tool shed and/or about as engaging as a youtube video on damp proofing. The overall package again.

On that front it would be my humble that men have a distinct advantage on this overall package score. Yes it is more a "sellers market", however men can "earn" attractiveness much more easily than women IMH. Never mind that they have at least a decades grace before they need to start to get concerned if the whole family thing is in play. And TBH I do get a tad frustrated when I see some guys moan/give up the ghost on the whole dating thing. Sure, tinder is a dead loss if you've a great face for radio, so be honest, accept that, adapt to the cold realities, avoid areas where you're weakest and work other angles.

Wibbs · 04-12-2016 11:19PM

midnight city wrote: »

You are right. Look at this link, click into the photos so you can scroll through them one at a time. Focus on the photo of them make up free, often you'll have to look at the made up photo to recognise them. That says a lot.

Yes and no. For a start they're celebs and that's a can of worms right there. Many of them are older women too, so what are we expecting? Teenagers? Though I may be biased as I prefer the hippie chick natural look. And no I don't mean the sedimentary rock level layers of face paint that tries to look "natural". I genuinely prefer no makeup. There's a long enough list on your link I would be way more attracted to without the slap.

Jimmy Garlic · 05-12-2016 12:16AM

It is not even a tinder, or dating site problem I think. It's an Ireland problem. Quite simply women from other countries don't tend to have such unrealistic expectations. There are an awful lot of Bondoran standard women in Ireland who don't want to settle for anything less than a Bondi standard man. Completely deluded.

leggo · 05-12-2016 12:21AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is not even a tinder, or dating site problem I think. It's an Ireland problem. Quite simply women from other countries don't tend to have such unrealistic expectations. There are an awful lot of Bondoran standard women in Ireland who don't want to settle for anything less than a Bondi standard man. Completely deluded.

I got to meet and interview Neil Strauss, the guy who wrote that book 'The Game', a few years ago after he did a talk/book signing here. He spoke about how, no matter what country or city he did such events in, guys said that girls in that particular area were broken and things were so much better elsewhere. The grass is always greener and all that...

BabyE · 05-12-2016 12:31AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is not even a tinder, or dating site problem I think. It's an Ireland problem. Quite simply women from other countries don't tend to have such unrealistic expectations. There are an awful lot of Bondoran standard women in Ireland who don't want to settle for anything less than a Bondi standard man. Completely deluded.

Nah man its the western world. Its the same everywhere!

Jimmy Garlic · 05-12-2016 12:34AM

leggo wrote: »

I got to meet and interview Neil Strauss, the guy who wrote that book 'The Game', a few years ago after he did a talk/book signing here. He spoke about how, no matter what country or city he did such events in, guys said that girls in that particular area were broken and things were so much better elsewhere. The grass is always greener and all that...

I have been to a lot of countries and I know from experience that women in other countries do not have the same profoundly unrealistic expectations as Irish women.. They were basically throwing themselves at me when I was in Toronto and I'm no Fassbender lookalike. Irish women expect men to do all the work and are quite smug about rejecting all the men who show an interest who don't look like the male model that they think they deserve.

Sundance_Kid · 05-12-2016 12:35AM

John Bishop was on The Late Late the other week and made a comment about Irish men punching above their weight - couldn't disagree more.

In response to the OP, welcome to alot of Irish women - probably the pickiest women in the world with serious delusions of how "hot" they are.

It all comes back to our drinking culture, good looking man goes out gets hammered and is looking for anything to shag, the very average looking girl gets picked up and suddenly she thinks she is a lot hotter than she is, unfortunately from then on she thinks that is her level.

BabyE · 05-12-2016 12:38AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I have been to a lot of countries and I know from experience that women in other countries do not have the same profoundly unrealistic expectations as Irish women.. They were basically throwing themselves at me when I was in Toronto and I'm no Fassbender lookalike. Irish women expect men to do all the work and are quite smug about rejecting all the men who show an interest who don't look like the male model that they think they deserve.

The reason is because you were exotic to them, it compensated for your looks. Location game is legit, although less relevant than in the past. The 'other' just doesn't excite as much as it once did as the western/developed world has become much smaller.

I have good Tinder pictures but I honestly believe as a man you are only as good as your worst trait to women. I hate saying it but everything I've observed thus far in every social occasion, every bar, every club is that a select group of men are getting all the action. In Ireland its actually weird because I've seen good looking guys who are alternative struggle. Irish girls are obsessed with rugby brutes because the media push these as heart throbs.

leggo · 05-12-2016 12:54AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I have been to a lot of countries and I know from experience that women in other countries do not have the same profoundly unrealistic expectations as Irish women.. They were basically throwing themselves at me when I was in Toronto and I'm no Fassbender lookalike. Irish women expect men to do all the work and are quite smug about rejecting all the men who show an interest who don't look like the male model that they think they deserve.

Maybe that's because you were Irish, exotic, a bit different, whereas in Ireland you're bog standard (no offence intended I obviously don't know you, just making a point, you know what I mean). When I was a teen my friends stumbled upon this absolute BOMBSHELL, a real game-changer to a horny group of 15-year old lads: we'd go around and drink with new groups of people every week. And guess what? We'd have our pick of the women in the group! The lads in the other groups used to hate it, it was gas. But they were the same faces the girls saw every week, at that stage they knew the lads problems and baggage and had seen them puking up after a rough night out so the novelty was worn off, whereas we were new and shiny and different!

When I hear stuff like this I try and test the logic and offensiveness of what people are saying by replacing the key word with another. So let's replace "All Irish girls are stuck up" with "All black girls are stuck up." So, no, it doesn't really pass the test. It's a kinda ridiculous generalisation that completely relies on your experience yet removes any accountability for your own actions from the equation.

Like I know a guy who says similar things and goes mainly for non-Irish women which, fair enough, is his prerogative. But I've also tried to set this guy up with multiple different friends of mine in the past, and they all come back saying some variation of the words 'creepy' or 'weird', to the point I've stopped setting him up because I don't really wanna be responsible for making my female friends uncomfortable. And I've seen him 'in action', so to speak. He's my friend and I like him...but I kinda get what they're talking about too. I've also seen him around women who don't speak the language fluently and these things tend to go right over their head, possibly because they're not used to the culture here so don't pick up on the micro-cues that Irish girls instantly would (well, for a while anyway, they all usually end up disappearing after a few dates sadly). Whereas I know loads of people, like myself, who don't relate to the horror stories he does be telling about Irish girls*. So maybe the problem is actually him and not the female population of the country, because he's the common denominator in this scenario really.

Irish girls aren't massively different than English or American or Spanish or Italian or Norwegian girls. Women are women. You'd want to go to the Middle East or somewhere equally far flung for the massive cultural differences to start showing in any meaningful way.

*I tell a lie there. I have got aggressive replies in the past, but more when I was in my early 20's and not great at making chat with strangers (when it was all built up in my head and I'd live or die on a night based on whether I got the shift). Now I think back and cop, "Ahhh, I was actually coming in and being loud and obnoxious interrupting their conversation when I thought I was 'just having a laugh like'!" It just doesn't really happen anymore because I've grown up and learned to read a room a bit better. I'm not saying I have a 100% success rate chatting women up, far from it, but I'll have a pleasant interaction 99% of the time whatever the outcome because I'll be friendly, sound and give them the option of turning me down nicely without getting defensive or confrontational about it.

silverharp · 05-12-2016 12:59AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I have been to a lot of countries and I know from experience that women in other countries do not have the same profoundly unrealistic expectations as Irish women.. They were basically throwing themselves at me when I was in Toronto and I'm no Fassbender lookalike. Irish women expect men to do all the work and are quite smug about rejecting all the men who show an interest who don't look like the male model that they think they deserve.

Its funny but from listening to local accounts of dating in Toronto its feminist hell ground zero. Either you are a novelty or you didnt know any better and didnt have that look of down beaten terror in your eyes

Surreptitious · 05-12-2016 01:51AM

I think you're all very negative, I answer messages from very ordinary guys who honestly can't even spell and have even dated them. I have no expectations and have gone out with men less educated than me and definitely worse looking than me. I have also been with good looking guys as well. Women don't go for one type or one look. If someone can show me they care and they listen to my crap plus we are sexually compatible then I'm happy. Looks are not everything. A kind face and a sweet deposition can bring you places that no whatever you think stunning guy will go to. I don't care about height or weight to a degree unless the person is nice. Sometimes it's hard for the nice guy to win in the dating game as he thinks he might not be up to scratch.

Tony EH · 05-12-2016 07:58AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is not even a tinder, or dating site problem I think. It's an Ireland problem. Quite simply women from other countries don't tend to have such unrealistic expectations. There are an awful lot of Bondoran standard women in Ireland who don't want to settle for anything less than a Bondi standard man. Completely deluded.

There's something to this, although I think it's not just limited to Ireland.

However, I do know several women - attractive too - that are in their 40's and still waiting around for that "perfect" guy?

Madness.

BTW, what's a "Bondoran standard" woman?

Wibbs · 05-12-2016 09:39AM

leggo wrote: »

I got to meet and interview Neil Strauss, the guy who wrote that book 'The Game', a few years ago after he did a talk/book signing here. He spoke about how, no matter what country or city he did such events in, guys said that girls in that particular area were broken and things were so much better elsewhere. The grass is always greener and all that...

+1000. I've personally heard that kinda thing from(off the top of my head) Italian, Spanish, American, Canadian and Russian guys. The details shift slightly depending on local culture, but the "[insert local nationality here] women are a pain" is up there with "politicians eh?" as a basic human shared conversation. The grass is greener bit might make sense if we seek novelty in reproductive partners. Widens the gene pool and all that.

blacklilly · 05-12-2016 01:09PM

I don't get the mass generalisation that Irish women are overly picky.

I along with a few of my friends are single, I'd consider us all to be friendly, good looking, successful women but we cannot meet a genuine, sound, decent guy.

In this age of dating, people are considered disposable and there's very little respect left out there. God forbid you want to know where you stand with someone after a couple of months of dating. If you dare ask you're seen as clingy or desperate!
It's a total mind field out there, now more than ever we have more choice and it seems that people are afraid to give anything a proper go with someone cause they feel there may be someone better in the tinder swipping world.

I'm not for one second suggesting that people should settle but we really do need to take a look at how tinder and other online platforms are making us behave.

The_Captain · 05-12-2016 01:29PM

There's nothing wrong with women, it's just the way dating is, online and in real life.

There are so many guys who are awful at Tinder. No bio, crap pics, opening line is Hi/Wanna Chat/What's up? or that f**king waving bear gif or else they go straight to dick pics and expecting sex.

There are guys out there who are better at Tinder than you. If a girl only swipes right on 4 in every 10 guys, you need to have a better profile than 60% of guys out there to get a match. If she only replies to 2 of those 4 messages, you need to have a better patter than 50% of guys who get matches to get replies. If she only goes on a date with one of them, then you need to get it all working together and be better than 90% of the profiles she views.

If she's only going on dates with 10% of the profiles she views, you've got to ask yourself what you offer that 90% don't

BabyE · 05-12-2016 02:08PM

LMAO you can't study bro, you are either born with that jawline and aesthetic facial features, that handsome face is the result of genetic combination, nothing more, nothing less.

siblers · 05-12-2016 04:29PM

I never had any trouble with Tinder, it helped improve my life for the better, found it easier to get dates off Tinder/POF than in real life.

For anyone who is struggling with online dating, if you have a female friend on Tinder, ask her can you look like through her Tinder account to see:
The messages she gets
The type of profile pictures other guys have on there
What they have entered in their bio.

I think a lot of guys tend to be quite unaware of how their profile pictures can blend in to look exactly like all the other people on there, I don't mean that most guys all look the same but they are all the same type of photos. (selfie, out with group of friends, top of a mountain etc.) unless you are rather handsome, you won't stand out and a lot of girls may just end up passing on you. You don't need to have 4/5/6 unique photos but having one or two that stand out somewhat makes a huge difference and once the others are all good quality where you are easily identifiable and don't look pissed, it will make a huge difference. When I was on Tinder, my main profile picture resulted in a lot of girls messaging me first, let alone matching with me.

As for your bio, you don't need to be super creative but try to have something that is original and lighthearted, I had l plenty of girls message me first because of my bio.

Regarding messages, this is very hit and miss, if a girl is interested in you, in theory it shouldn't matter what you send but if you are a girl and you get 40 matches a day and you send something like "how's it going"..why would she reply over a more creative/funny message? Again, if she is really attracted to you, it might not matter but other girls are more into humour and intelligence than looks (come across quite a few girls like this on Tinder) so having a creative opening message and bio will make a big difference.

This applied to offline dating as well as online, if something isn't working for you, change it up. Try a new haircut, lose weight, put on weight, wear different glasses, go to the gym, wear different clothes etc. From my own experience, it made a world of difference to my own confidence when I went from being overweight to being in good shape, I felt better about how I appeared so felt more confident when going on dates.

Zillah · 05-12-2016 04:37PM

BabyE wrote: »

LMAO you can't study bro, you are either born with that jawline and aesthetic facial features, that handsome face is the result of genetic combination, nothing more, nothing less.

Not really.

Obviously you have to have genetic potential, but a lot of people will never know what their potential is.

Sleepy · 05-12-2016 04:53PM

If you think he struggled to get a date in the left picture, I'd say you're wrong. I'm not one to keep up with celebrity gossip etc but while he's undoubtedly in better shape these days, he's always been a decent looking bloke and seems to have bags of charm.

Blacktie. · 05-12-2016 04:54PM

Sleepy wrote: »

If you think he struggled to get a date in the left picture, I'd say you're wrong. I'm not one to keep up with celebrity gossip etc but while he's undoubtedly in better shape these days, he's always been a decent looking bloke and seems to have bags of charm.

Pretty sure that wasn't his point.

Zillah · 05-12-2016 05:05PM

Blacktie. wrote: »

Pretty sure that wasn't his point.

Correct. I am disputing the idea that looks, including jawline, are all genetics. There are plenty of good-looking people hidden behind sweaty fat and poor grooming.

Arevaci · 05-12-2016 05:28PM

siblers wrote: »

I never had any trouble with Tinder, it helped improve my life for the better, found it easier to get dates off Tinder/POF than in real life.

Because so many guys struggle, it’s inevitable that some guys like yourself will do well. Basically, if women dismiss 80% of guys straight off, the top 20% of guys will have deal with all the female activity on tinder. You’ll put it down to your creativity and humour, but in reality you likely had pictures that displayed your physical attractiveness well or had cues that you have a decent job/social status.

The reality is that when women only like 14% of men, the average guy will be swiped left even before he gets a chance to say anything. This doesn't mean the average guy gets 14% of likes (a 10/10 guy might not even get that) because there will be a huge inequality in likes, just like there is wealth in society. In fact simulations suggest that the average guy has a 1-2% chance of being liked. This is why tinder never release their statistics, because no guy would ever use it again.

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a#.ylfnjekm0

Tinder practically amounts to the bottom 80% of guys competing for the bottom 20% of women while the top 80% of women compete for the top 20% of men. Like in an engineering class, sure you could try to improve yourself to make yourself a 10/10 guy and take home the one girl in the class. But why not just head along to the Arts Ball where they’ll be plenty of girls who’ll like you for who you are – and not some pretentious, photo-shopped, Rob Kearney wannabe designed to temporarily fulfill some woman’s unrealistic expectations.

How come Tinder is so difficult?

Comments