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Why Irish language still exists?

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    #92
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Edups2.0 wrote: »
    Irish isn't like Afirkans it's not dead or dying.

    Afrikaans I assume you mean? In what way is it dying. Aren't there several million native speakers?


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    #93
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    FortySeven wrote: »
    I'd say you could be right on the money there. Languages are like trees really.

    What is your point?

    If they are said out loud in a forest, did they actually happen?


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    #94
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    What is your point?

    Irish as a language is more dead than alive and good riddance.

    It's a useless language that nobody else is ever going to bother to learn. Even those of you who were taught it at school don't bother to use it yet you all get defensive when anyone points it out.

    It's actually pretty funny to see. This guilt because of 'the Brits and such'.

    I know I'm generalising but I've read enough of these threads.


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Damien360 wrote: »

    Why do the Welsh have a love of their language. How is it taught and can we learn from that. Irish was driven into me and most of us for 14 years and I speak more French and German from my 5 years secondary and more again from visiting the places.
    Welsh people speak Welsh at home so the children see the language as natural and learning it is useful, it's as simple as that.

    Irish children learn the hatred of Irish from their parents, Welsh children simply don't see that as an issue as they don't get the same bad feelings from their parents.


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    #96
    darlett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭darlett


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Afrikaans I assume you mean? In what way is it dying. Aren't there several million native speakers?

    Yes, but none of them are getting any younger. ;)


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    #97
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    maudgonner wrote: »
    But you've just given an example of two guys who did choose to speak it, of their own free will.

    As shown above, the words do exist for most (I won't claim all) terminology. Those guys may have chosen not to use the Irish words (just as you said above, English speakers choose to use borrow words from other languages). Maybe they weren't fluent, maybe it was just easier for them to use the, admittedly more familiar, English terms. However they also chose to carry the bulk of their conversation out through Irish, when they're presumably also fluent in English. If it was as uncomfortable as you say, why wouldn't they simply switch entirely to English? Maybe the only one who was uncomfortable was you?

    I'm all in favour of people using the odd English term if that facilitates them having Irish conversations in the normal course of their day. Surely that's preferable to someone being reluctant to speak the language at all for fear of getting stuck on a term they're unfamiliar with. Funnily enough the 'all or nothing' attitude that you seem to have is normally attributed to Gaeilge Nazis - militant speakers who would rather we all speak nothing but Irish. Thankfully most people take a more realistic, moderate view.

    The two guys came from Spidall. They were brought up speaking irish. One of them in a house where people came to learn Irish in the summer. Still struggled to hold a conversation.

    I feel the same way about Scots Gaelic, my own supposed heritage language. The money wasted on duplicate document printing, signage and translators is legendary. May they rest in peace together. They are free to keep using them if they wish. A generation will see them finished.


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    #98
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    FortySeven wrote: »
    The two guys came from Spidall. They were brought up speaking irish. One of them in a house where people came to learn Irish in the summer. Still struggled to hold a conversation.

    I've yet to meet a Spiddal native that can't speak English. So if, as you claim, they struggled to carry out the conversation in Irish why wouldn't they have switched to English?

    Clearly they were perfectly happy to speak in Irish and use English terms as needed. I'd be surprised if they 'struggled to hold a conversation', it just may not have met your stringent standards of 100% Irish :pac:


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    #99
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    darlett wrote: »
    Yes, but none of them are getting any younger. ;)

    They are having kids though? And they are being raised in the language


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    #100
    darlett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭darlett


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    They are having kids though? And they are being raised in the language

    It was a joke. Please don't rate the joke. :P


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    #101
    Edups2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Edups2.0


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Afrikaans I assume you mean? In what way is it dying. Aren't there several million native speakers?

    Wrong language. I'm now blanking on the actual one I meant. D'oh.


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    #102
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    maudgonner wrote: »
    But you've just given an example of two guys who did choose to speak it, of their own free will.

    As shown above, the words do exist for most (I won't claim all) terminology. Those guys may have chosen not to use the Irish words (just as you said above, English speakers choose to use borrow words from other languages). Maybe they weren't fluent, maybe it was just easier for them to use the, admittedly more familiar, English terms. However they also chose to carry the bulk of their conversation out through Irish, when they're presumably also fluent in English. If it was as uncomfortable as you say, why wouldn't they simply switch entirely to English? Maybe the only one who was uncomfortable was you?

    I'm all in favour of people using the odd English term if that facilitates them having Irish conversations in the normal course of their day. Surely that's preferable to someone being reluctant to speak the language at all for fear of getting stuck on a term they're unfamiliar with. Funnily enough the 'all or nothing' attitude that you seem to have is normally attributed to Gaeilge Nazis - militant speakers who would rather we all speak nothing but Irish. Thankfully most people take a more realistic, moderate view.

    I've had technical conversations with people who don't speak english and they've understood me because the terminology is the same. I very much doubt there's an Irish phrase for a front side bus or RAID array. Now that doesn't mean the language is lacking because you'll find in most languages they just use the english phrase for a lot of stuff but to say that words for them exist in Irish is a bit disingenuous.

    btw, the English language has the most words of any modern language. That's the simple fact. There's no way an Irish word can exist for all of them since the English language has more words.


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    #103
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    Grayson wrote: »
    I've had technical conversations with people who don't speak english and they've understood me because the terminology is the same. I very much doubt there's an Irish phrase for a front side bus or RAID array. Now that doesn't mean the language is lacking because you'll find in most languages they just use the english phrase for a lot of stuff but to say that words for them exist in Irish is a bit disingenuous.

    btw, the English language has the most words of any modern language. That's the simple fact. There's no way an Irish word can exist for all of them since the English language has more words.

    Well, in the interests of keeping FortySeven happy...the word for a bus in the computing sense is the same as the word for bus in the transport sense, which is...bus :) (That's from the Latin - Omnibus, English fans) So it would be bus tosaigh.

    And a RAID array is eagar iomarcach dioscaí neamhchostasacha, or just eagar RAID, if you want to keep the acronym.


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    #104
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    They speak English in Australia :confused:

    Thats what they want you to think.


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    #105
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    wakka12 wrote: »
    And architectural fashions come and go too, does that mean we should knock all our georgian architecture just because it no longer is fit for modern purpose. Language is heritage just like this

    When was the last georgian building built? Anyone throwing them up now?


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    #106
    CaptainR
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭CaptainR


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Chinese is very valuable. As is Japanese or Korean.

    Australian could be useful but I believe it's a difficult one to master.

    Do you really think so? I get the idea that 1.6 billion people speak Chinese but honestly I can't see enough situations where you need it in working life to be of such importance. I'm taking Spanish as an elective in college atm and I think it would be of more use, all of South America bar Brasil speak it.

    The thing with the Asian languages is that in those countries they learn English as their second language and odds are that they will have a better handle of it as they've learnt it from a young age as opposed to us.


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    #107
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,863 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    wakka12 wrote: »
    And architectural fashions come and go too, does that mean we should knock all our georgian architecture just because it no longer is fit for modern purpose. Language is heritage just like this

    When was the last georgian building built? Anyone throwing them up now?
    Do you know what Georgian means?


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Quite simply, because it is funded. Take away the funding and it will be gone in a generation.

    Anyway, what would the lads and lasses do at TG4?

    couldnt care less about the lads but the lasses certainly wouldnt look as sexy calling out the weather


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    #109
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    CaptainR wrote: »
    Do you really think so? I get the idea that 1.6 billion people speak Chinese but honestly I can't see enough situations where you need it in working life to be of such importance. I'm taking Spanish as an elective in college atm and I think it would be of more use, all of South America bar Brasil speak it.

    The thing with the Asian languages is that in those countries they learn English as their second language and odds are that they will have a better handle of it as they've learnt it from a young age as opposed to us.

    Have you ever seen instructions translated from Chinese or bought anything Chinese that talks? It's hilarious. China is the future. They manufacture everything we buy. We have to deal with them. Better to speak their language.

    I speak polish. Absolutely useless but very handy when I lived there (and for surprising **** who dont know I can understand them saying things about me at work)


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    #110
    FrKurtFahrt
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭FrKurtFahrt


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Latin is more useful than Irish yet it is taught in schools. How about teaching the kids something useful like French or German talking about mandatory Irish in schools. Our government institutions at its finest again. Should listen to what a smart man once said. "Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of humanity." - Albert Einstein
    It might have been useful to teach grammar at whatever school you went to, regardless of what language you prefer.


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    #111
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Do you know what Georgian means?

    Something to do wit dem lads in Eastern europe and the pig rapers in america innit?


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    #112
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Latin is more useful than Irish yet it is taught in schools. How about teaching the kids something useful like French or German talking about mandatory Irish in schools. Our government institutions at its finest again. Should listen to what a smart man once said. "Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of humanity." - Albert Einstein

    Interestingly enough, I've just looked up that quote. In the same article that it was taken from, Einstein goes on to say:
    But to return to the Jewish question. Other groups and nations cultivate their individual traditions. There is no reason why we should sacrifice ours.
    Standardization robs life of its spice. To deprive every ethnic group of its special traditions is to convert the world into a huge Ford plant.

    As you say, a smart man.


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    #113
    CaptainR
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭CaptainR


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Have you ever seen instructions translated from Chinese or bought anything Chinese that talks? It's hilarious. China is the future. They manufacture everything we buy. We have to deal with them. Better to speak their language.

    I speak polish. Absolutely useless but very handy when I lived there (and for surprising **** who dont know I can understand them saying things about me at work)

    Yeah I suppose you're right I hadn't thought of that. The worlds a fascinating place, 50 years ago the states were the future, they built a lot of stuff that was in demand. I wonder in 50 years will it still be China or will it have moved somewhere else, atm its impossible to look elsewhere for manufacturing supremecy. The Guy Martin show on China is well worth a look if you can spare some time on a Monday evening.

    I'd say knowing Polish puts you in a unique position when you're down in Lidl and you hear two Poles talking to each other about whatever.


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    #114
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    Anyone disparging the learning of a second (or third, fourth, etc.) language is intellectually bankrupt, and therefore not worth listening to.

    Reducing an entire language to an economic value is vulgar in the extreme.

    Fucck yis all.


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    #115
    NikoTopps
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭NikoTopps


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Irish as a language is more dead than alive and good riddance.

    It's a useless language that nobody else is ever going to bother to learn. Even those of you who were taught it at school don't bother to use it yet you all get defensive when anyone points it out.

    It's actually pretty funny to see. This guilt because of 'the Brits and such'.

    I know I'm generalising but I've read enough of these threads.

    It's not useless at all. There are around 2,4m people learning Irish alone on Duolingo! That's far from dead.


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    #116
    NikoTopps
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭NikoTopps


    I came from Russia when I was young and I went to the Gaelscoil. It was school my Mam was recommended and it just happened to be Irish speaking. I learnt Irish before I could barely string a sentence together in English.

    My bestfriend was Polish,the only other foreigner and our common language was Irish. I'd go to school speak Irish come home speak Russian. I sat Leaving Cert through Gaeilge and those extra mark helped me very much. Even as an adult I use Irish often and I love it. Such a beautiful language and it sadden me so much when I see people with a dislike for it.

    Irish is usually literal with her translation so to the person who was curious about 'dildo' it is a fake penis so in Irish bod(penis)+bréige(false).. Just other day I was reading about abortion law in Ireland and the word is ginmhilleadh,(foetus+destroy) . My point is that it is adding new words all of the time just like any other LIVING language!!


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    #117
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Irish as a language is more dead than alive and good riddance.

    It's a useless language that nobody else is ever going to bother to learn. Even those of you who were taught it at school don't bother to use it yet you all get defensive when anyone points it out.

    It's actually pretty funny to see. This guilt because of 'the Brits and such'.

    I know I'm generalising but I've read enough of these threads.

    Why is good riddance to have the Irish language gone??

    Its faster spoken which suits likes of me etc....I'd love to be able to speak it....and given the rise of gaelscoil around the country.....it'll hardly die anytime soon


    It's taught very wrong mind....too much time spent on learning the rules/verbs/tenses etc....

    (When there's a large part of the population struggle with the concept of these in english).


    My grandmother family came from the gaeltacht....and they could speak it easier to get words out etc in irish than english....

    I think it's deadly anyway and in 2016 noone should be apologising for having something that's unique to ireland and being proud of it


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    #118
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I enjoy using Irish when little Up the 'Ra muppets start giving it loads about De Brits and a United Ireland. Tends to shut them up fairly quickly, even though I'd have far from perfect Irish myself, but they wouldn't know that.


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    #119
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Quite simply, because it is funded. Take away the funding and it will be gone in a generation.

    Anyway, what would the lads and lasses do at TG4?

    without TG4 there'd be practically no rugby on tv, nor GAA league and club games


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    #120
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    It is sad how the areas speaking Irish are contracting every year

    except in Belfast


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Grayson wrote: »
    I've had technical conversations with people who don't speak english and they've understood me because the terminology is the same. I very much doubt there's an Irish phrase for a front side bus or RAID array. Now that doesn't mean the language is lacking because you'll find in most languages they just use the english phrase for a lot of stuff but to say that words for them exist in Irish is a bit disingenuous.
    I work with Indian IT staff and when they're having conversations in their own language works like SCSI, RAID & windows spring up all over the place,
    So yes, technical terms are universal and there's no real point in creating locale variants that could add another layer of confusion in the technology.
    Technology is complex enough, without adding a translation element.


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