So whats the bad aspects to Scandinavian living?

Miserable weather, drab towns and cities, cold joyless people who are no craic at all, 60% of your salary going on tax, pints for 12 euros. What's not to love.

Funny, I've little enough to add to this thread. Only; It was just a couple of days ago, as I say this, that a chat room mate of mine ~ English bloke, been in Norway twenty years now. He was saying how he'd about had enough.

I didn't really know what to say. Hardly felt suggesting he flee back 'home' would fit it. Twenty years? Englandistan? Dunno ..... Hardly the place he left.

But, the horror stories he's, casually told me, from Norway! Purely conversational stuff. Open, chat room, blokes having a beer and talking to eachother stuff. God almighty!

Hey, Nog?

Eh? No!!!

The government taking such good care of you stifles the formation of both strong and weak interpersonal relationships.

Walking through a densely populated suburb on a sunny Saturday and it's like a ghost town. Everyone in a supermarket staring fixedly at a point 2m in front of them on the floor for terror of eye contact. A table of friends in a bar late on a Saturday night basically staring at each other, occasionally one takes a sip and says a sentence but mostly sitting in silence. The nurses in the hospital assuring my husbands family that they didn't need to visit my father in law daily as they were taking good care of him.

Joylessness and a sense of isolation.

It's just a cold version of Istanbul

pauliebdub wrote: »

Miserable weather, drab towns and cities, cold joyless people who are no craic at all, 60% of your salary going on tax, pints for 12 euros. What's not to love.

Oh, when did you live there then or are you just trolling, or clueless? I spent 8 years in Gothenburg and can tell you that apart from the weather (cold dark winters yes but I loved the snow and their summers can be lovely), the rest of what you wrote is complete BS.

Their towns and cities are well planned and designed and put most of ours to shame, and every local area and apartment block has safe, well kept outdoor play areas for kids. Gothenburg and Stockholm are beautiful cities. Stockholm is not called the 'Venice of the North' for nothing.

There is excellent sports and leisure facilities for all, great affordable public transport, excellent standard of universal affordable healthcare with clinics everywhere-decentralised so you don't have to go to a hospital for routine procedures, very cheap and sometimes completely free(!)public childcare. Education is seen as something that is a right for all, you get great Govt. support to make it affordable to attend 3rd level or go back to education as an adult and life long learning is seen as a priority.
Housing rents were very affordable for me and tightly controlled with rent caps so no-one has to end up on the streets because they can't afford to pay extortionate rents like here. Oh and there is great security of tenure there as a renter and every building has communal laundry facilities, lock up rooms in the basement to store your stuff and bicycle rooms to store your bike safely.

Yeah a real **** hole huh??

A country that is much more egalitarian than Ireland and where women have more rights to control their bodies than this country because religion has been rightfully relegated to something that's seen as a nice fairytale when you're a child, but really something one should grow out of into adulthood and which has no place in formulating public policy.

I also felt very safe there in the second largest city day or night, which is more than can be said for when I'm in Dublin, or even Waterford at night.

Cold joyless people? lol Swedes love the Irish and as soon as they found out I was Irish they were really positive and friendly towards me. Yes it can take a bit longer to break the ice there as they have the opinion that it's a sign of respect to keep one's distance from strangers to give them their space, but once you become friends with a Swede you have a friend for life.

I found them to be kind, gentle, intelligent and well informed and if you were ever on a night out with a Swede you would know they are absolutely good craic and could drink most Irish under the table actually!

My experiences of living and working there were overwhelmingly positive. We could learn a lot from them IMO.

P.S-the tax rate I paid was 32%, not 60!

UEFA is biased against teams from northern Europe.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The government taking such good care of you stifles the formation of both strong and weak interpersonal relationships.

Has that been your experience when you lived there then? because it certainly was not mine. Why would good Govt. supports impact on interpersonal relationships?? what is your evidence to support that?

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Walking through a densely populated suburb on a sunny Saturday and it's like a ghost town. Everyone in a supermarket staring fixedly at a point 2m in front of them on the floor for terror of eye contact. A table of friends in a bar late on a Saturday night basically staring at each other, occasionally one takes a sip and says a sentence but mostly sitting in silence. The nurses in the hospital assuring my husbands family that they didn't need to visit my father in law daily as they were taking good care of him.

Joylessness and a sense of isolation.

Gee, people in supermarkets who want to just do their shopping and get home without wanting to be there to make friends... whoda thought? supermarket shopping is the same dull experience wherever you go. I'm there to shop, full stop. The local ICA shop where I lived had very polite staff and Swedish people are in general are polite and give people lots of personal space. As an introvert I liked that actually.

Terror of eye contact? way overstating the mark. People keep to themselves, that's all and expect you to do the same. If you had bothered to actually talk to any Swedes though you would find them engaging and warm.

It's true there is not the same casual friendly exchanges with strangers you find here, and I do like the warmth of Irish people, but there can be a flip side of intrusiveness and nosiness that I don't like.

The sitting in silence thing-it's called being comfortable with silence. Swedes unlike the Irish don't feel the need to fill every second with jabbering away, they prefer to have something concrete to talk about than just talk any old bollox just to fill the space. And they never talk over each other, they let you say whatever you want before they will respond, which I found refreshing and something I really miss here.

The nurses were just telling you what the truth was as they saw it. They don't sugar coat things there and you know exactly where you stand with them as a consequence.

I didn't find life in Sweden joyless in the least-I had a very rich experience there and made several life long friends. I loved the culture, Scandinavian design, respect for 'Naturen', a real work life balance and wonderful public services. I never felt isolated as I had a good working environment where I was respected and as I said I made good friends.
You only get out what you put in to living there.

I wonder what you call joyful? if it's the usual Irish things of going out and getting hammered and living for the weekends you can keep it.

Nehemiah Ancient Anorexic wrote: »

It's not quite the same, but my sister lives in The Netherlands and she is like a CONVERT. All I ever hear is how sh!t Ireland is because everything over there is better. So much for "don't know what you got" etc. They pay higher taxes but they get basically everything they need for nothing (health, transport, education, welfare).

I can report that your sister isn't full of BS but is almost full of it. :pac: I've been living in The Netherlands for almost 2 years and this country is far from perfect.

Higher taxes - there are tax breaks and tax credits, but tax starts at about €19k at 36.55%.

Health - my state compulsory health insurance will be going up by almost 10% next year. I get GP visits at no extra costs, but all medecines and everything else I must pay for (the first €385).

Transport - if you live in Amsterdam it's happy days. But like in Ireland if you live in a more rural area (as rural as you can get here) public transport is rubbish. I started a new job a few weeks back. 30-35 mins in the car or 3 buses taking 1hr 20. I pay €600/year to tax a 1.4L Golf and €1.46/L to put petrol in it.

Education - okay, this one is true. The UN say Dutch children are the happiest in the world. I get the impression that schools here are very good. Third level education not quite the same.

Welfare - I don't think the dole is quite as generous here, but if you lose your job you get something. Though I can't quite complain about my health insurance premium. Next year it will be €99/month but the gubberment give me an allowance of €83/month.

But all things considered I do prefer living here.

'The jobs for the boys' (vriendinpolitiek) culture is alive and well here too, no need to be so cynical. :pac: The amount of old money that slushes around this country, 'I scratch your back, you scratch mine' can sometimes be mind boggling.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I think there is more to life in Ireland then getting hammered. Can you not point out good things in Scandinavian culture without criticism of Ireland where plenty of people don't get hammered.

Good, pity more people don't think like you, the alcoholism rate and resultant violence, family, health and other problems would be far lower.

I was responding to unfair and ridiculous assertions about Sweden and sorry if you don't like my criticism of this country. I'm born and raised in Ireland so naturally I compare the two countries I've lived in. There are some things I like about this country or else I wouldn't be here.

Seems like people who have a grudge against the Scandi countries either do so out of ignorance having never lived there or been misinformed about them, or they are doing so from ideological opposition to the Scandinavian social model.