Xylitol, why isn't it more widely recommended and used.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 04:17PM

I had said, I read dental magazines.

ArthurG wrote: »

Think that's your problem right there buddy

Can you expand on your point please?

Are you saying that dentists are incapable of telling the truth?

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 04:36PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Are people aware of Rational Wiki?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews

It says that NaturalNews is a known scam site, which promotes pseudo science.

Do you not care about that?

What about Wikipedia?
It also says that NaturalNews is a questionable site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News
Characterized as a "conspiracy-minded alternative medicine website", Natural News has approximately 7 million unique visitors per month.[11]

Natural News (formerly NewsTarget) is a website for the sale of various dietary supplements, promotion of alternative medicine, controversial nutrition and health claims,[2] and various conspiracy theories,[3] such as "chemtrails", chemophobic claims (including the purported dangers of fluoride in drinking water,[4] anti-perspirants, laundry detergent, monosodium glutamate, aspartame), and purported health problems caused by allegedly "toxic" ingredients in vaccines,[2] including the now-discredited link to autism.[5] It has also spread conspiracy theories about the Zika virus allegedly being spread by genetically modified mosquitoes[6] and purported adverse effects of genetically modified crops, as well as the farming practices associated with and foods derived from them.[7]

Why are you linking to scam websites to support your position?

can anybody else hear that loud whooshing sound?

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 04:39PM

only in your echo chamber, dear.

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 04:41PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

only in your echo chamber, dear.

still not understanding, then?

Nidom · 25-11-2016 04:47PM

Well this has been entertaining to say the least.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 25-11-2016 04:59PM

Muhammed....how dare you suggest I have a pet rate. Its a Siberian hamster. I took this picture of him after feeding him a load of my Xylitol crackers (www.xylitolforabetterlife.org) and as you can see he is alive and well. His breath is also much better. I may have misjudged this

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 05:04PM

We really do live in a post-truth world.

Don't bother doing the best for your patients then. I don't have the patience for this.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 05:22PM

Muhammed_1, the science Don wrote:

Fitzgeme, your science is questionable.

Alun wrote: »

I think your sarcasm detector needs recalibrating.

Don't jump on the bandwagon just 'coz you think that's what the cool kids are doing.

I quoted and linked to dental magazines.

Fitzgeme linked to known scam websites.

You say that my science is questionable.

You are wrong.

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 05:24PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Don't jump on the bandwagon just 'coz you think that's what the cool kids are doing.

I quoted and linked to dental magazines.

Fitzgeme linked to known scam websites.

You say that my science is questionable.

You are wrong.

still not getting it i see. You really do need to pay attention to those whooshing noises.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 05:28PM

ohnonotgmail wrote:

You really do need to pay attention to those whooshing noises.

But the wind doesn't blow through my head because my brain is in the way, so no, I don't hear whooshing noises.

I cannot make a recommendation to help you with your condition.

Nidom · 25-11-2016 05:34PM

I say we ban it altogether.

ArthurG · 25-11-2016 05:36PM

Down with this sort of thing etc

helimachoptor · 25-11-2016 05:42PM

My god, the thread has descended into i'm not sure what.

Muhammed, do not post again on this forum about Xylitol unless you are backing your claims up with peer reviewed research or other credible sources.

A dental hygienist magazine isn't what i'd be basing my views on.

And to be clear if you post again or argue on thread

1 day ban -> 1 week ban -> 1 month ban ->permanban

Stone Deaf 4evr · 25-11-2016 05:45PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Don't jump on the bandwagon just 'coz you think that's what the cool kids are doing.

I quoted and linked to dental magazines.

Fitzgeme linked to known scam websites.

You say that my science is questionable.

You are wrong.

whats so special about this xylitol stuff? have you got a shedload that you want to sell or something? cause you're terribly worked up over people having different opinions on the matter.

Its friday, the weekend is here, and its a lovely crisp evening outside. maybe move away from the keyboard and go enjoy it.

Big_G · 25-11-2016 05:49PM

"3 trials reported no clear impact of xylitol on
the caries incidence in children, and 2 of these trials reported
diarrhea as an adverse effect. Xylitol was, therefore,
not included in the final recommendations."," The
comparison of xylitol and the placebo for permanent and
primary teeth showed no significant additional benefit for
xylitol beyond that provided by the other preventive
measures. Perhaps gummy worms would have been a
better choice.","The mean
annualized lesion transition scores from sound to carious
favored xylitol, but the difference was neither clinically
nor statistically significant."
Annual review of selected scientific literature: Report of the
Committee on Scientific Investigation of the American
Academy of Restorative Dentistry -Donovan TE, Marzola R, Becker W, Cagna DR, Eichmiller F, McKee JR, Metz JE, Albouy JP.
J Prosthet Dent. 2015 Dec;114(6):756-809.

This is a quotation from a review paper. There is no good evidence that xylitol has any anticariogenic effect. So now, will everybody stop insulting each other and clicking the report button.
In future please refrain from name calling. If asked to cite references to back up your claim, A TRADE MAG IS NOT A REFERENCE. We have to maintain some kind of standards around here. I should really close the thread but we'll leave it open until someone misbehaves then I will start handing out bans, and then I'll close the thread.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:07PM

Peer reviewed as far as I know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/ wrote:

Xylitol, a five-carbon sugar polyol, has been found to be promising in reducing dental caries disease and also reversing the process of early caries.
...

Xylitol reduces the levels of mutans streptococci (MS) in plaque and saliva by disrupting their energy production processes, leading to futile energy cycle and cell death.7 It reduces the adhesion of these microorganisms to the teeth surface and also reduces their acid production potential

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:11PM

This should be acceptable standard.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2676064/ wrote:

Xylitol research has been conducted since the early 70’s; at the beginning of 2009 there were almost 500 PubMed- indexed papers on “xylitol and dental”.

...
Studies with low daily doses of xylitol are known as a rule to fail to show any caries-preventive effects. To obtain beneficial xylitol-effects on mutans streptococci, on plaque and caries occurrence xylitol must be consumed three times or more per day, with a daily dose of 5–6 grams.
...
Xylitol is a useful adjunct to traditional methods for caries control and prevention. Caries prevention with xylitol has been claimed to be expensive, but if true primary prevention is obtained, as demonstrated in the mother-child study,6,7 it may be worth it.
...

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 06:13PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Peer reviewed as far as I know.

if you take that on face value you should be chewing xylitol gum not using it as a mouthwash.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:15PM

more peer reviewed research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3434645/ wrote:

Background/purpose

Although habitual consumption of xylitol reduces cariogenic streptococci levels, its effect on beneficial oral streptococci is less clear. The main aim of the study is to investigate the effect of short-term xylitol consumption on the oral beneficial streptococci level of saliva, Streptococcus sanguinis and S. mitis.
...
Results

The S. mutans and S. sobrinus counts of the saliva samples decreased significantly (p = 0.01 and p = 0.011, respectively) in the xylitol gum group...
...
Conclusions

Based on the findings of this study, xylitol consumption reduced S. mutans and S. sobrinus counts in saliva but appeared not to effect numbers of S. sanguinis and S. mitis in saliva. So, habitual consumption of xylitol reduces cariogenic streptococci levels without any effect on beneficial sterptococci for the oral cavity.
..

All good news I'd have thought.

Why is there such resistance to xylitol among Irish dental professionals?

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 06:18PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

more peer reviewed research.

All good news I'd have thought.

Why is there such resistance to xylitol among Irish dental professionals?

you said

I'd recommend a home made mouthwash made using 100% Xylitol powder rather than products containing Xylitol.

your articles say

The predominant modality for xylitol delivery has been chewing gum.15 Chewing gum accelerates the processes of rinsing away acid and uptake of beneficial calcium phosphate molecules to remineralize tooth enamel.

EoghanIRL · 25-11-2016 06:21PM

I don't see the resistance.

The capacity of one's short term memory is limited. I'd much rather use time to reinforce proper toothbrushing technique, flossing and dietary advice mainly about reducing frequency of sugar intake.

If you are going to tell someone to take an adjunct why not make it a fluoride containing product?

Edit: chewing gum is just one way of increasing salivary flow rate. The benefits of increased saliva aren't dependent on xylitol. Chewing a flavourless wax pellet with have a similar effect.

I feel like this thread is just going around in circles.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:29PM

A mouthwash containing xylitol would be more effective as a xylitol delivery system than chewing gums.

If people don't accept that what is your objection?

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 06:31PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

A mouthwash containing xylitol would be more effective as a xylitol delivery system than chewing gums.

If people don't accept that what is your objection?

that is not what your links say. You are making a claim and presenting links to back it up yet those very same links contradict you.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:35PM

The delivery system used for Xylitol makes little or no difference.

If the gums were yellow in colour compared to blue that'd make no difference either.

Your objection is not well founded.

Why do you think that xylitol contained in a mouthwash is different to the xylitol contained in gums?

ohnonotgmail · 25-11-2016 06:37PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The delivery system used for Xylitol makes little or no difference.

If the gums were yellow in colour compared to blue that'd make no difference either.

Your objection is not well founded.

Why do you think that xylitol contained in a mouthwash is different to the xylitol contained in gums?

where does it say that in your links? You think method of delivery makes no difference? You think rinsing your mouth for a minute is as effective as 20 minutes of chewing xylitol gum?

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:42PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

...
You think rinsing your mouth for a minute is as effective as 20 minutes of chewing xylitol gum?

Is that something I said?

Clearly you are setting up straw men.

Xylitol is the active ingredient. It works by coming into contact with bacteria in your mouth.

It makes no difference if the xylitol comes from gums, or from hard candies, or from gels or syrups, or from a mouthwash, or from toothpaste.

You need to explain your objection in more detail.

Why would a mouthwash be different to gums in these circumstances?

Big_G · 25-11-2016 06:42PM

You're comparing randomly controlled clinical trials in my quoted paper with a narrative review and a microbiological study in a no name journal that quotes studies that looked at nasopharyngeal strep mutans and didn't have anything to say about caries rates and a microbiological study that also doesn't have anything to say about caries rates. That is, the authors made pretty significant assumptions and leaps of logic. That is not high quality evidence. The fact is that dental professionals couldn't really care less about xylitol because we have something that has been proven to work (unlike xylitol) - fluoride. The fact is that caries is a multifactorial disease, it's not just the bacteria or refined carbohydrate intake, it's also the host resistance to the disease that is a factor.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:44PM

More detail please.

Which source are you criticising?

I did give several.

I would appreciate if you could identify it for me please.

Also, where do you source your quote?
Would you mind providing it please?
Is there a link available?

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 06:51PM

Big_G wrote: »

...
The fact is that dental professionals couldn't really care less about xylitol because we have something that has been proven to work (unlike xylitol) - fluoride.....

You might not be interested but what about your patients?

Do they not deserve the highest standard of care?

Flouride is seperate to xylitol. It has different effects.

Why not have more weapons in your armoury?

Do you reject Hexochlorine (or however its spelled) too simply because you have flouride?

Having flouride is not a good basis on which to reject every other possible form of help.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 25-11-2016 07:12PM

Ah big_g you thought you would rock in here with your understanding of science and research and shed light on this. I tried that, not much success. I have had to fall back on sarcasm but that isnt working either. I know which is more fun though.

Also how dare anyone suggest setting up a straw man. The straw man is innocent...free the strawman, sign the patition

Xylitol, why isn't it more widely recommended and used.

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