Permanent students.

Subcomandante Marcos · 23-11-2016 04:28PM

Jawgap wrote: »

The other masters and the PhD I'm currently working on are really just for my own satisfaction and because I read a lot - they provide structure and direction to my reading.....

This is part of why I'm doing mine, and will do more. I have to read a lot of policy and monitoring stuff constantly for work and also write extensively on the area I work in, so why not make it work for me at the same time? I like the area I work, I like the research and I am able to basically harvest in house reports and statements that I write for work to form the bulk of my writing for my masters and now my PhD, so why not? I'm also lucky enough to work for a group who will fund my academic work as part of my job, so it doesn't cost me anything but time.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 23-11-2016 04:41PM

A relative of mine who sits on interview boards for public sector organisations said that there are some candidates who are virtually unemployable because they've been doing one university course after another for years and years and have basically been living in an ivory tower since they left school.

Big difference, though, between people like that and people who go out into the workplace after a few years of University and then decide to do some more studies part time.

But people who just lock themselves away into full time university life until they're approaching middle age are definitely not getting to grips with the real world.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 23-11-2016 04:44PM

gossamer wrote: »

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

I totally agree. I have a cousin whose daughter has done her degree and been working in a good job for a couple of years. However my cousin was saying recently that she knows her daughter will probably want to do a Masters soon, so she is prepared for the fact that they will have to pay for it and the daughter will move home and need to be supported by them again.

I find this incredible. There are so many options and opportunities to study part time nowadays. Why on earth can this girl not continue working and attend university at night if she wants to do a Masters? She's an adult now, not a child.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 23-11-2016 05:23PM

As some have said very important to distinguish between people that have a clear end goal with education and those that use it as a crutch to shield themselves from the real world.

I myself did a full-time degree and later a part-time graduate diploma to build knowledge in a different area. I know several that have PhDs and have made good use of them.

I have one friend that is just completing his PhD at 32. Nothing wrong with that but he has never worked outside of Uni since he started there apart from a stint of co-op placement. Since then he's been involved in the SU, did a masters, spent some time on the dole, took pretty much the full 5 years to get the PhD done. By comparison I know lads that ploughed straight through got PhD by the time they were 26 or so.

I just feel he is shortly going to be entering the workforce in his earlier thirties with no real work experience since his 8-9 month co-op placement about 12 years ago. Plus if he wants to do things like buy a house he is only starting to save decent money.

By his age I had 12 years of good industry experience, moving into a management position. On the personal side I had dealt with lots of major life experiences, managing a household and buying my second house.

Obviously I wish him well but I fear he will have a difficult time adjusting, after sort of being institutionalized by the education system.

GLaDOS · 23-11-2016 05:26PM

Only just wrapped up my PhD myself, first time I'm not a student in any way since I was 4 or something :pac:

pilly · 23-11-2016 05:29PM

OP hasn't actually said yet whether their cousin in a full-time or part-time student? There's a big difference. If someone has worked yet at age 37 I'd be giving them a serious kick in the hole. If they're working away then I don't see the problem with studying all your life, no harm in learning something new at all times.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 23-11-2016 05:34PM

pilly wrote: »

OP hasn't actually said yet whether their cousin in a full-time or part-time student? There's a big difference. If someone has worked yet at age 37 I'd be giving them a serious kick in the hole. If they're working away then I don't see the problem with studying all your life, no harm in learning something new at all times.

Think the OP said he does part time work at Supermacs.

pilly · 23-11-2016 05:40PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Think the OP said he does part time work at Supermacs.

That's a bit different now. He couldn't be paying for all these courses on Supermac wages so either government are paying or mammy and daddy are.

Kick up the hole.

23-11-2016 05:45PM

Would an individual like the op describes not just have some sort of issue maybe a lack of confidence in themselves or something constantly doing courses becomes a security blanket against the real world.

That is not the same as someone going back to do a masters or PhD for career reasons or even for interest while they are working.

Grayson · 23-11-2016 05:52PM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

About to turn my 4th post graduate into a PhD myself. We should get off our arses and face the real world, useless layabouts.

I was told I could have a free MA when I graduated from my BA. I had to turn them down.

suicide_circus · 23-11-2016 05:55PM

As someone who sees a fair amount of CVs I'd be inclined to go for the candidate with experience and a track record in the area over someone who has been studying for a decade. Obviously ideally you'd have a nice mix of both.

andekwarhola · 23-11-2016 05:56PM

I can understand people in their 30s onwards going back to college to improve their education but surely nobody that age does it as a lifestyle choice and hangs out there?

Can't think of anything more cringeworthy.

suicide_circus · 23-11-2016 05:57PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

I can understand people in their 30s onwards going back to college to improve their education but surely nobody that age does it as a lifestyle choice and hangs out there?

Can't think of anything more cringeworthy.

Easy access to chung wans.

andekwarhola · 23-11-2016 06:01PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Easy access to chung wans.

..... in his mind.

Spanish Eyes · 23-11-2016 06:10PM

There are a lot of highly educated people on this thread with degrees from B to M to Phd and (what's beyond that!).

Well done, well done.

I did all my studies at nighttime and when I was working full time.

I'm still as thick as a plank though, where am I going wrong??

suicide_circus · 23-11-2016 06:30PM

We don't appreciate that there are different types of smart in Ireland. It's a PHD or youre a window licker.

Grayson · 23-11-2016 06:39PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Easy access to chung wans.

It was the opposite for me. You can be sitting in a lecture hall with 150 girls and realise that you're way too old for any of them. Plus how many women your own age are going to be interested in a student with feck all income.
"Want to go for dinner next week? I'm thinking supermacs. We're splitting the bill yeah?"

23-11-2016 06:40PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

We don't appreciate that there are different types of smart in Ireland. It's a PHD or youre a window licker.

A high % of the population in Ireland has third level education.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/ireland-tops-the-eu-for-third-level-education-attainment-eurostat.

Maybe it a bubble or something but the vast majority of people I know have a degree and all the people I work with have third level education, was talking to one of my sister about this and in her office only having a BA would put you at the bottom of the heap, Maybe it is an Irish thing.

beks101 · 23-11-2016 06:54PM

From a practical point of view, I've learned far far more "on the job" than I ever did at university about my particular field and those practical skills were always the topics of conversation in job interviews. It was about who I worked for and what I did, as opposed to where I studied and what level of degree I got.

I've worked abroad the last seven years and my degree has never been mentioned, it's served more as a "tick the box" than anything else to prospective employers. The professional development courses and certs I've done through various jobs would get more of a mention as they'd be directly applicable to the job at hand.

I guess it depends on what profession you're in. I'm in media and would be entirely useless in a newsroom scenario with a bunch of degrees hanging out of my arse and no practical experience of breaking, writing and editing news stories with a gun to my head and a particular audience to cater for. You can usually spot those kids a mile off - and they usually are the interns - prestigious degrees and masters and PhDs in newsroom ethics and international politics and not a notion of how to react when the sh1t hits the fan and a deadline is looming over their heads.

CaptainR · 23-11-2016 06:59PM

We've a building in our college thats known as the hippie building amongst the other departments. It has all the artsy type courses like filmmaking, music, photography and the like. I'm not knocking those courses I'm sure some of them are useful, but they attract some of the laziest neckbeards I've ever seen.

If there is ever any kind of social justice protest or movement it's coming out of that building. It has a disproportionate amount of mature students and the mature students are the type who aren't really upskilling they're just bouncing from course to course. Most of the mature students in my course are people who didnt go to college during the boom or who went to Oz to earn money working in bars or on sites.

The difference in the people in that building and say the engineering building is enormous.

ZeroThreat · 23-11-2016 10:43PM

CaptainR wrote: »

We've a building in our college thats known as the hippie building amongst the other departments. It has all the artsy type courses like filmmaking, music, photography and the like. I'm not knocking those courses I'm sure some of them are useful, but they attract some of the laziest neckbeards I've ever seen.

If there is ever any kind of social justice protest or movement it's coming out of that building. It has a disproportionate amount of mature students and the mature students are the type who aren't really upskilling they're just bouncing from course to course. Most of the mature students in my course are people who didnt go to college during the boom or who went to Oz to earn money working in bars or on sites.

The difference in the people in that building and say the engineering building is enormous.

Work ethic being the main differentiator I'd guess.

taytobreath · 23-11-2016 10:49PM

CaptainR wrote: »

laziest neckbeards

:D:D:D:D

Shergar6 · 24-11-2016 09:24PM

Cedric Substantial Horn wrote: »

I totally agree. I have a cousin whose daughter has done her degree and been working in a good job for a couple of years. However my cousin was saying recently that she knows her daughter will probably want to do a Masters soon, so she is prepared for the fact that they will have to pay for it and the daughter will move home and need to be supported by them again.

I find this incredible. There are so many options and opportunities to study part time nowadays. Why on earth can this girl not continue working and attend university at night if she wants to do a Masters? She's an adult now, not a child.

Yeah, that's incredibly selfish on the daughter's part. Never in a million years would i expect a parent to pay for my third level education, especially a Master's!! In fact, if i hadn't been eligible for a grant for my degree there is no way i could have done it.

My sister has been putting a few bob away for her kid's college education since she was born which is fair enough. I suppose if they decided they wanted to go straight into a job she'd give it to them for a car or whatever. It's the responsible parent thing to do. She's not putting herself into a heap of debt when they're 18. But 18 year olds nowadays just expect parents to fork out for college fees, accommodation, spending money etc and probably a car... it's gas! There's at least 3 years wages from a part-time job during school year and full time in summer they could be contributing towards it.

donegaLroad · 24-11-2016 09:35PM

I have a relation who went back studying at 58 and became a barrister.

Shergar6 · 24-11-2016 09:36PM

beks101 wrote: »

From a practical point of view, I've learned far far more "on the job" than I ever did at university about my particular field and those practical skills were always the topics of conversation in job interviews. It was about who I worked for and what I did, as opposed to where I studied and what level of degree I got.

I've worked abroad the last seven years and my degree has never been mentioned, it's served more as a "tick the box" than anything else to prospective employers. The professional development courses and certs I've done through various jobs would get more of a mention as they'd be directly applicable to the job at hand.

I guess it depends on what profession you're in. I'm in media and would be entirely useless in a newsroom scenario with a bunch of degrees hanging out of my arse and no practical experience of breaking, writing and editing news stories with a gun to my head and a particular audience to cater for. You can usually spot those kids a mile off - and they usually are the interns - prestigious degrees and masters and PhDs in newsroom ethics and international politics and not a notion of how to react when the sh1t hits the fan and a deadline is looming over their heads.

But in fairness it is kind of drummed into kids these days that you have to get at least a degree - that it's equivalent to what the Leaving Cert was 20 years ago.Even Masters are almost becoming run of the mill. These stories of kid's leaving school at 17 without exams and getting hired as a lackey and working their way up to the top position are all fine and dandy but that's not very realistic these days. You nearly need a degree to do any basic minimum wage job now. I think some go on and do Masters and PhDs in the hopes they'll actually get a good salary. But ultimately getting experience is kind of impossible when there are no jobs in the field where you want to work. And it is all about who you know. Look at the teaching profession where it's mostly teachers kids/nieces/nephews taking up the positions. In my local school alone there's about 5 daughters of principals/teachers - went straight from college into permanent positions.

Shergar6 · 24-11-2016 09:38PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I have a relation who went back studying at 58 and became a barrister.

all that study for a couple of years work

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2016 10:25PM

Shergar6 wrote: »

all that study for a couple of years work

It depends on what kind of educational background he had. I think any degree holder can take a Diploma in Legal Studies (2 years) and then sit an entrance exam and apply for the Barrister at Law Degree (1 year) at Kings Inns.

Tough to do obviously but certain mature students from non legal backgrounds have taken this route and succeeded in getting called to the Bar.

ZeroThreat · 24-11-2016 11:26PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I have a relation who went back studying at 58 and became a barrister.

he must have had all the social networking, upper society contacts and expensive banqueting completed in advance then. I thought that was one of the requirements to get anywhere in this country or the UK with a law or finance/banking career.:)

ZeroThreat · 24-11-2016 11:30PM

Shergar6 wrote: »

But in fairness it is kind of drummed into kids these days that you have to get at least a degree - that it's equivalent to what the Leaving Cert was 20 years ago.Even Masters are almost becoming run of the mill. These stories of kid's leaving school at 17 without exams and getting hired as a lackey and working their way up to the top position are all fine and dandy but that's not very realistic these days. You nearly need a degree to do any basic minimum wage job now. I think some go on and do Masters and PhDs in the hopes they'll actually get a good salary. But ultimately getting experience is kind of impossible when there are no jobs in the field where you want to work. And it is all about who you know. Look at the teaching profession where it's mostly teachers kids/nieces/nephews taking up the positions. In my local school alone there's about 5 daughters of principals/teachers - went straight from college into permanent positions.

Really?- people working in, say the likes of Bewleys or McDonalds need a good degree now?
In my day (late 90s) we tended to work in those sorts of places part time while attending 3rd lvl...

893bet · 24-11-2016 11:38PM

I wasted many many years in 3rd level education.

Over qualified and under experienced.

Permanent students.

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