Permanent students.

Jimmy Garlic

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

sullivlo

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

I think it depends on the context and reasoning behind being a student. I'm 30 and have been engaged in some form of education since I was 4. I have an undergraduate degree and a PhD, however I also frequently end up on courses (certificates, diplomas) that can strengthen my CV for applying for different positions if/when I want to move on to a new job. For example, I completed a course in start up for new businesses to have a better understanding of how new companies work and to get an insight into the work involved.

However none of my extra courses were ever instead of working. I have always completed them in the evenings/weekends if required.

... unless your cousin is a student in the "university of life" or the "school of hard knocks" - in which case there is no hope for him :pac:

Jimmy Garlic

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

What does "Life style choice" mean exactly - I am not clear. I would be curious what makes one career path a career path and another one a "life style choice"? For many people academia is their career path. Usually you find people engaged in that form of long term academia will be lecturing as well to bring the income.

But yes other people do find it harder to find out who they are and what they want and they will jump from study path to study path for a long time to try and find themselves. That would not be a "life style choice" either I am guessing - as I would expect if such people knew what they want they would go for it up front rather than mess about. Doubt they choose to be lost and directionless.

riffmongous

How does he pay for it?

munster87

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

Van Wilder Syndrome

Shergar6

It's his life, why judge?

Widdershins

Not exactly. A friend attempted the same college course three times in a row 'til he succeeded. He works in a totally unrelated area now.

Fleawuss

Social studies. Heritage studies. Abolish all such courses immediately. Fire the staff. Immediate savings. Students forced to face reality.

osarusan

How is he paying for it?

As long as it's not coming from tax and without good reason, I couldn't care less what he does.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jimmy Garlic

osarusan wrote: »

How is he paying for it?

As long as it's not coming from tax and without good reason, I couldn't care less what he does.

Comes from a fairly well to do family. He has worked in Supermacs part time. Grants and things like that aswell I suppose.

Rumpy Pumpy

I'm a big believer in continuous education. That said, I've a cousin who is 35 now and has fecked around in college since he was 17. Worked for a few years in menial enough jobs that he always complained about, before returning to college to take up yet another course of questionable merit.

He seems to spend his days on Facebook giving out about the government and reposting the latest populist nonsense from whatever left wing party he is a member of at the moment. Always giving out about the middle classes, despite their taxes paying for him to attend a course in a fairly decent college in Dublin. I'd question the idea that allowing such a lad to go back - yet again, to college is the best use of a portion of the limited budget available to education in this country.

He seems to live in some sort of bubble where his assumed right to continuous education completely overshadow his responsibility to somehow use that education to contribute back to the society that gave him such opportunities.

Jimmy Garlic

Fleawuss wrote: »

Social studies. Heritage studies. Abolish all such courses immediately.

Not the kind of stuff that translates into jobs in fairness. Same goes for art.

Your Face

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

I know a few lads like that. I'd love to know much it costs the state.

Grayson

I've been in college on and off since I was 18 and I'm now 40. Most of it was done whilst working full time. I'm already looking into a course to start next september. Although that one will be part time. I can't do another full time course whilst working fulltime, it's a killer.

twill

Fleawuss wrote: »

Social studies. Heritage studies. Abolish all such courses immediately. Fire the staff. Immediate savings. Students forced to face reality.

They can be useful, as long as you know you'll need to get extra qualifications before the degree is actually worth anything. I think there are a couple of social studies degrees that actually qualify students as social workers, though. Heritage studies is best when you already have a skill that you want to use within the heritage industry.

snickerpuss

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Not the kind of stuff that translates into jobs in fairness. Same goes for art.

Yup get rid of heritage studies, sure there are no tour guides, museum and gallery curators, museum and gallery attendants, historians, archivists, librarians, genealogists, researchers...

Also social study leads to social care and social work both of which definitely lead to jobs. There actually aren't enough social workers at the moment.

Ulysses Gaze

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

Thirst for knowledge and a passion for learning new things.

If I had the cash, I'd do the same.

wakka12

Well personally I think learning should not be something that just ends after 21 when you get a degree. Learning should be life long, knowledge should be an asset. If you've worked for the last ten years in a given job but at say age 34 you start to discover a passion for something and want to study it and make a job of it then I don't see anything wrong with that

Lukker-

Your Face wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

I know a few lads like that. I'd love to know much it costs the state.

You do realise that the state will only pay for fees the first time around? As in you can't get funding or a grant to do first year twice in different courses. You also can't draw the dole while in college. So very little I assume.

taytobreath

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

How does that work?

Dr. Dr. Permanear?

pgj2015

Lukker- wrote: »

You do realise that the state will only pay for fees the first time around? As in you can't get funding or a grant to do first year twice in different courses. You also can't draw the dole while in college. So very little I assume.

You can, btea and springboard.

Lukker-

pgj2015 wrote: »

You can, btea and springboard.

BTEA only applies to people who haven't completed a degree, they won't pay you do to the same year again in college if you have previously been funded for it. Works much the same as the grant, except you have to be unemployed for 9 months prior.

eoins23456

I'd probably actually consider doing it as a life choice if I had the free flow of cash to do it.

Conor Bourke

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Permastudent

Musefan

I'll have been in education for 20 years by the time I turn 26. Part of that is loving learning, part of that is the fact that in the broad healthcare field I am in, it would be negligent to not make an effort to continue training and learning.

Your Face

Lukker- wrote: »

You do realise that the state will only pay for fees the first time around? As in you can't get funding or a grant to do first year twice in different courses. You also can't draw the dole while in college. So very little I assume.

Its a bit naive to think they can't get the dole.

ongarboy

Grayson wrote: »

I've been in college on and off since I was 18 and I'm now 40. Most of it was done whilst working full time. I'm already looking into a course to start next september. Although that one will be part time. I can't do another full time course whilst working fulltime, it's a killer.

And there is nothing wrong with that and your passion for constant learning is to be admired. Some do it for career advancement, others do it because of a natural interest to learn more and from the pleasure they derive from it.

I would only have issue with permanent students who use it as an excuse to avoid the real world or expect someone else to fund them while they jump from one course to another aimlessly without translating such courses into creating self sufficiency for themselves. If their "sponsors" are happy to throw such money at them (down the drain), that's their choice but go to the Personal Issues forum and there have been quite a few threads from partners and spouses who are stressed out by their other halves refusing to look for work and hiding behind mickey mouse courses causing constant financial and relationship problems for the relationships.

Shergar6

Lukker- wrote: »

BTEA only applies to people who haven't completed a degree, they won't pay you do to the same year again in college if you have previously been funded for it. Works much the same as the grant, except you have to be unemployed for 9 months prior.

Yup, i did a full time 1 year course a couple of years ago and wasn't able to claim anything because i had a degree and it was classed as first year in college even though it was only a QQI course. Only found that out after i had been accepted onto the course and had made plans. Kick in the stomach tbh. Had to live off of savings for a year which was a pretty miserable existence. I get that they can't fund life long students but in fairness i finished my degree 10 years ago and this course was to further my employability and not to doss. (was fckin hard going back to full time study)

I think there should be a cap on grant availability - like you can't apply for 5 years or something. Life is long and it's ridiculous when you're turning people away from trying to further themselves in a sh!tty economy.

eoins23456

I know you can do some part time courses that are fully funded by the government on springboard if you are in full time education and have a previous degree.

Spanish Eyes

If the "Eternal Student" is paying their own way what's the problem?

If taxpayers are funding them forever well there is a point to made. When are they ever going to use their education for the good of the country as a pay back?

No problem with re training for unemployed from the taxpayer just to mention.

Mister Vain

Yeah I know a guy like that. He'll be getting his pension from the college soon.

AngryLips

I think it's questionable if someone spends their entire adult life in education, but at the same time I have way more respect for that person than someone who spends their entire life on the dole without trying.

gossamer

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

Grueller

snickerpuss wrote: »

Also social study leads to social care and social work both of which definitely lead to jobs. There actually aren't enough social workers at the moment.

Mainly due to a hiring moratorium in the public sector.

ZeroThreat

gossamer wrote: »

I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters.

Sooo, Louise O'Neill won't be getting a masters in Gender equality studies then??

Shergar6

gossamer wrote: »

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

Yeah true. There's some very spoilt and entitled people around. Have a couple of friends who are given handouts on a regular basis. One had money put in to that savings scheme - the 4 for 1 thing? The full amount -Think the ma paid 90e a month or something? had a tidy some of 16k when it matured. They never seemed to realise how lucky they were - it was like 'meh, she wanted to do it and i deserve it'.

Other friend has almost everything paid for by the parents. They do work in fairness but any sign of car trouble, private health care needed or they take a holiday and the ma and da are writing a check. The ma also minds the kids for free. She even has to take her holiday when they do so she'd be available to childmind :rolleyes:

I've never had that and never expected it. I haven't asked my parents for money since i was about 14. Paid for school books and school tour from my part-time job. Not expecting a clap on the back for it or anything but it would gall you to see how easy some people have it and they don't even appreciate it.

Grayson

gossamer wrote: »

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

I think a lot of people have no idea what they want to do at 18. A lot of my most successful friends did Arts in college. It gave them a broad overview of topics they liked. They managed to put the skills they learned into action in real life and did quite well.

I think it's sweden where they will pay whatever wage you're on if you go back to college. It's not a bad idea if the state can afford it (I know ppl will start going on about tax but we've had hundreds of threads on it. I'm just saying that in an ideal world it's great to give people that option). Lots of people only figure out later on what they're good at.

I went back to college in my 30's to study full time whilst working full time. I'm still paying off the courses. It created a lot of financial pressure not to mention lifestyle change. Going back to improve yourself shouldn't be so arduous.

fizzypish

Anyone else think that staying in higher education for more than (I only did 4 and **** me if I'm going back) 7 years is a kind of hell?

fizzypish

fizzypish wrote: »

Anyone else think that staying in higher education for more than (I only did 4 and **** me if I'm going back) 7 years is a kind of hell?

I suppose it depends on how you do it and what you do and what you love.

I discovered later in life - after college - that I was actually much more interested in - and quite good at - many subjects that were completely different to what I actually studied.

If it were not for family and children and other committments I would consider going back to higher education myself to explore some of them. I would love to get much deeper into things like Human Psychology and Biology and Epidemiology and more - much deeper than I already have.

Perhaps in the future our family unit income will be in a state where we could juggle me not being an earner for a few years and I might even consider it. Now is not that time alas.

fizzypish

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose it depends on how you do it and what you do and what you love.

I discovered later in life - after college - that I was actually much more interested in - and quite good at - many subjects that were completely different to what I actually studied.

If it were not for family and children and other committments I would consider going back to higher education myself to explore some of them. I would love to get much deeper into things like Human Psychology and Biology and Epidemiology and more - much deeper than I already have.

Perhaps in the future our family unit income will be in a state where we could juggle me not being an earner for a few years and I might even consider it. Now is not that time alas.

True. I didn't enjoy my time. I do have a rather hard nosed view to full time higher education. If its not going to be profitable in the long run then its not that useful. Education is never wasted but more time studying does not always equal more money. In saying that if your paying for it yourself and not leveraging on anyone then go for it.

I guess so - but only assuming profit is your goal. A lot of people have no interest in profit. So I guess they would be the kind of people more inclined to stay in academia long term.

fizzypish

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess so - but only assuming profit is your goal. A lot of people have no interest in profit. So I guess they would be the kind of people more inclined to stay in academia long term.

Spot on. Potential profit/life options drove me into college and their the only thing that could drive me back.
I still get irritated when I think back to certain academic focused lecturers giving BS assignments and saying "This is what its like in industry" only to find industry nothing like that.

purpleisafruit

Following school, I did a year of medicine as that's what everyone told me I should do. Having decided that I'd be a crap doctor, I quit and went to study English. Did a masters after that and spent 5 years working in a job I loved in media.
Following redundancy at the height of the downturn, I decided to go back and do another degree in IT. Should have done that at 18 really! Now a couple of years into a new career and love what I do. If finances weren't an issue, I'd happily be an eternal student but grateful to be doing what I do now.

SusieBlue

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that his relative is jumping from course to course, in different areas of study, probably not completing some of them with no intention of working in any of those areas.

I don't think anyone would object to someone getting the highest qualification possible in their field, maybe even branching out a bit to a slightly different area of interest, so long as they were paying for the majority of it themselves. To study one area for so long shoes passion and the person will eventually give back what they got in taxes.

However I too know someone, who now, at 35, is still in college, and it's so annoying. She has done everything from fetac level nursing and fetac childcare to trying a BA in law and everything in between. The few courses she has finished, she has decided weren't for her and have gone in search of the next one.
She takes up seasonal work a few times a year, normally bar work in summer and retail in winter but as far as I know she's never worked consistently or full time. These courses are paid for by her parents, who she lives with, and grants.

I just think it's incredibly juvenile, after the 5th or 6th course that just 'wasn't for her' she should have sucked it up and tried to get a full time job in one of her areas, but no, on she moved to the next course. I know I certainly couldn't afford to jump from course to course, not finishing them, not progressing, because I have bills to pay, and I'm 10 years younger.

Pursuing the highest education possible in your area is nothing short of admirable but flitting from course to course with no direction or ambition, literally doing it to pass time, is not okay with me and is what would annoy me in that type of situation.

Galway_Old_Man

I get what people are saying about education being great but if you been to third-level I guarantee you've encountered the "lifers". Usually involved with the SU and SU politics (laugh), dropping in and out of courses. I remember as a wee-niper of 17 befriending one such guy through a society. He was an old head then, but I got to know him a bit and learned he'd be swinging between courses. I ditched that membership after first year. I happened upon a flyer from that University SU last year (missus sister is going as a mature student) and sure enough there he still was! Unbelievable. I'm 36 now and yer man is still arsing about.

ZeroThreat

hmmm, wonder if Michael Deans is still involved in SU politics in DIT...:)

fizzypish

The SU stuff reminds me of one of my class mates in 3rd year. We all forced him to be class rep (no one else was willing and he drew the short straw). We were incredibly busy and he had to go to a SU meeting. He returned 2 hours later fuming. They'd spent the entire meeting complaining as the cost of a cup of tea had gone up by 10 cents. Last meeting he attended.

Galway_Old_Man

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Wow. Are you working full-time on it? I assume it's in the same field/area as your previous one?

I wouldn't class such endeavours in the same box as a lifer!

pumpkin4life

Fleawuss wrote: »

Social studies. Heritage studies. Abolish all such courses immediately. Fire the staff. Immediate savings. Students forced to face reality.

Agreed. I have no problem paying taxes for someone to get an actuary/science/engineering/nursing etc degree but it pisses me off that I'm taxed at an exorbitant rate cause some wan can do Arts and learn some brainwashing feminist gunk. At the very least, these courses should not be subsidized.

Sidenote: One of the biggest jumps a lad can take is from the cushy college "ewevrywone a wrinner I like the movie Juno LOL" to the 9-5 world where no one gives two flying fùcks about you and your opinions on climate change and tropical fish. If you've come from a poorer environment/a STEM course where you're working your bollocks off, that isn't as bad, but for the liberal arts courses, I often think its an inability for a lot of people to face up to/comprehend reality.

padd b1975

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If the "Eternal Student" is paying their own way what's the problem?

If taxpayers are funding them forever well there is a point to made. When are they ever going to use their education for the good of the country as a pay back?

No problem with re training for unemployed from the taxpayer just to mention.

I don't think any student 100% pays their own way, no matter how much personal responsibility they show.