2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Count Dooku · 19-11-2016 07:42PM

alastair wrote: »

Other than being the most popular candidate, pulling 63.5 million votes -1.3 million more than Trump. I guess.

Who cares? In few weeks it will be interesting only for historians
She knew the rules but she decided to waste resources to get electoral college and popular vote at the same time instead of concentrating on swing states
She stated to believe rigged polls and she got what she deserves
At least world become safe place again
Defcon nuclear threat REDUCED to safest level following Donald Trump victory

alastair · 19-11-2016 07:48PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Who cares? In few weeks it will be interesting only for historians
She knew the rules but she decided to waste resources to get electoral college and popular vote at the same time instead of concentrating on swing states
She stated to believe rigged polls and she got what she deserves
At least world become safe place again
Defcon nuclear threat REDUCED to safest level following Donald Trump victory

Who cares? Well that majority of voters who preferred her platform over Trump's. See, when you claim that Trump outperformed Hillary, it certainly wasn't on selling his candidacy.

Oh, and thanks for another dose of fake news. It does appear to be your speciality. http://www.attn.com/stories/12867/meme-about-trump-and-defcon-goes-viral

InTheTrees · 19-11-2016 07:56PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

At least world become safe place again
Defcon nuclear threat REDUCED to safest level following Donald Trump victory[/URL]

You know that story is fake right? Maybe you didn't know...

26000 Elephants · 19-11-2016 08:10PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Rubbish. Tell that to the relatives of the tens of thousands massacred by the regime. The assad family are bloody dictators who have ruled for 40 years under emergency powers after suspending the constitution.

I've worked in Damascus on several occasions over the years and that view is a bit over the top. About 90% of the 'rebellion' was US funded and orchestrated, the remaining 10% from rural Syrians who legitimately felt deserted by Assad.

Most Syrians never seemed too bothered by Assad to be honest. As a Christian there, you never feel under threat.

InTheTrees · 19-11-2016 08:22PM

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I've worked in Damascus on several occasions over the years and that view is a bit over the top. About 90% of the 'rebellion' was US funded and orchestrated, the remaining 10% from rural Syrians who legitimately felt deserted by Assad.
Most Syrians never seemed too bothered by Assad to be honest.

The syrians have risen up quite a few times against the dictatorship of the assad family.

There have also been numerous massacres and atrocities since the early 60's when they took power.

Syria was the main opponent in three wars with Israel, and they also occupied Lebanon for ten(?) years.

The assad family are not pleasant people.

ECO_Mental · 19-11-2016 08:25PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Who cares? In few weeks it will be interesting only for historians
She knew the rules but she decided to waste resources to get electoral college and popular vote at the same time instead of concentrating on swing states
She stated to believe rigged polls and she got what she deserves
At least world become safe place again
Defcon nuclear threat REDUCED to safest level following Donald Trump victory

Do you not feel embarrassed posting crap news stories? This is how Corrupt and fraud Trump got elected with total and utter lies and and BS and the sad part was people like yourself got suckered in.....

eire4 · 19-11-2016 09:21PM

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Do you not feel embarrassed posting crap news stories? This is how Corrupt and fraud Trump got elected with total and utter lies and and BS and the sad part was people like yourself got suckered in.....

The amount of outright lies and that got put out during this election campaign was unreal. Then you add in a corrupt media who have no interest in anything other then ratings and making money and you have a dangerously misinformed electorate.

There really needs to be a law about political ads for instance that includes some kind of punishment for ones that contain verifiable lies of which there was many.

Count Dooku · 19-11-2016 09:29PM

alastair wrote: »

Well that majority of voters who preferred her platform over Trump's.

As I said majority of voters voted against Hillary. Fact that she slightly outperformed Trump doesn't change much

alastair wrote: »

Oh, and thanks for another dose of fake news. It does appear to be your speciality. http://www.attn.com/stories/12867/meme-about-trump-and-defcon-goes-viral

Thanks for providing perfect example how Hillary supporters are using "fake news sites"

This is the DEFCON Warning System. Alert status for 8 P.M., Thursday, October 20th, 2016. Condition code is Blue. DEFCON 4.

http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/08/defcon-warning-system-update-102016/

This is the DEFCON Warning System. Alert status for 8 P.M., Thursday, November 10th, 2016. Condition code is Green. DEFCON 5.

http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/11/defcon-warning-system-update-111016/

Skylinehead · 19-11-2016 09:44PM

You do realise that the US military doesn't actually provide the current DEFCON level and that's just some random speculation site, right?

First Up · 19-11-2016 10:11PM

The troubling bit about this whole discussion is that I have yet to see anyone say anything positive about what Trump might actually achieve.

Most of the contributions here are about how awful Hillary is. Grand, but she is no longer part of the equation. Might it not be more important to start thinking about what is going to happen under Trump?

alastair · 20-11-2016 12:43AM

Count Dooku wrote: »

As I said majority of voters voted against Hillary. Fact that she slightly outperformed Trump doesn't change much

It certainly changes your erroneous claim that Trump outperformed Hillary. He didn't. More voters preferred the Hillary platform.

Count Dooku wrote: »

Thanks for providing perfect example how Hillary supporters are using "fake news sites"

http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/08/defcon-warning-system-update-102016/

http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/11/defcon-warning-system-update-111016/

Eh, yeah. Neither actually relate to an actual defcon level, and don't support the article you linked to. So - like I said - more fake news from you.

KingBrian2 · 20-11-2016 01:11AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Rubbish. Tell that to the relatives of the tens of thousands massacred by the regime. The assad family are bloody dictators who have ruled for 40 years under emergency powers after suspending the constitution.

You're obviously a fan of the Ba'ath party, so why not tell us why you think they're so great? Is it all the wars they've started against israel? The invasion and occupation of Lebanon?

If you knew the history of Syria you would know the US has interfered in internal Syrian politics for years. When the Syrians wanted to go into Jordan, Israel to back the Palestinian cause Hafez actually favoured more pragmatic approach. Syria has actually made accommodations when it comes to Western interest. President Assad was working to make a peace deal with the Israeli's during the early 00's and he successfully improved relations with Turkey which for years were uneasy. It was the US that was making unreasonable requests on President Assad. You want to know the biggest demand in Syria is. It is to start talking about the Golan Heights, territory lost to Israel with its illegal occupation of Arab lands. You want accuse Assad of war crimes you conveniently dismiss the larger role Israel played in stoking up Arab passions and making it extremely difficult for President Assad to sell peace to his countrymen.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 01:51PM

alastair wrote: »

Hillary had direct connections with Saudi and Qatar on account of having to actually govern. Trump will now have ample direct dealings with them too (ignoring his existing business dealings with them).

Your assessment of Assad, the FSA, and the nature of the dictatorship there are 'interesting' to say the least. No-one supports the bulwarking of Assad, outside Russia (half heartedly) and Iran.

The Clinton foundation has nothing to do with governing the US.

Assad was wined and dined by the west when it suited. The fact is it was a bunch of terrorists who rose up and destroyed the country as happened in Libya.

alastair · 20-11-2016 02:01PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Clinton foundation has nothing to do with governing the US.

And nor has the George W Bush Library, but the Saudis typically donate to US political leaders. It's only because of the Bush and Clinton role in US governance that the Saudis supported those charities. As I said - Trump manages to avoid this particular association, merely because he's not been involved in governing. He does of course have direct business-related connections, but I guess they don't really help make whatever case you're trying to fabricate.

RobertKK wrote: »

Assad was wined and dined by the west when it suited. The fact is it was a bunch of terrorists who rose up and destroyed the country as happened in Libya.

It's not actually a fact at all. If you're making the case that terrorist groups subsequently became involved in the war, on account of power vacuums, then sure, but you'll have to concede that there are terrorists supporting Assad too.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 02:04PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Rubbish. Tell that to the relatives of the tens of thousands massacred by the regime. The assad family are bloody dictators who have ruled for 40 years under emergency powers after suspending the constitution.

You're obviously a fan of the Ba'ath party, so why not tell us why you think they're so great? Is it all the wars they've started against israel? The invasion and occupation of Lebanon?

I look at Syria and think as if I was a local. As a Christian, Assad would be my safest option.
Lots of Christians had to flee for their lives after Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam Hussein, due to violence, executions and extreme intimidation from mostly Sunni extremists.
Now look at Syria and the countries backing some of the people against Assad, you have Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who export extremist values of their death cult. Anyone who has to fight these people have my support as they are fighting the most extremist ideology on the planet, two nation accused of funding the most extreme terrorist groups and the Saudis of being behind 9/11.
Assad is small fry in comparison and the people of Syria are better off without that outside interference because the Saudis want regime change there and one should be wary of what they want.

InTheTrees · 20-11-2016 02:04PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you knew the history of Syria...

If you'd even bothered to read the wiki on Syrian history you would know that the Ba'ath Party controlled by the Assad family took control of syria in the early 60's and have been run a bloody dictatorship under "emergency powers" ever since.

Protests and uprising ave happened through the years usually followed by bloody massacres. Tens of thousands have been put to death by the Assad's.

alastair · 20-11-2016 02:09PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I look at Syria and think as if I was a local. As a Christian, Assad would be my safest option.
Lots of Christians had to flee for their lives after Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam Hussein, due to violence, executions and extreme intimidation from mostly Sunni extremists.
Now look at Syria and the countries backing some of the people against Assad, you have Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who export extremist values of their death cult. Anyone who has to fight these people have my support as they are fighting the most extremist ideology on the planet, two nation accused of funding the most extreme terrorist groups and the Saudis of being behind 9/11.
Assad is small fry in comparison and the people of Syria are better off without that outside interference because the Saudis want regime change there and one should be wary of what they want.

The Syrians themselves wanted regime change. No amount of 'death cult' propaganda gets to remove from that reality. It's not for you to tell them who they're better off with.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 02:17PM

alastair wrote: »

The Syrians themselves wanted regime change. No amount of 'death cult' propaganda gets to remove from that reality. It's not for you to tell them who they're better off with.

So thousands protested out of a population of many millions.

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

InTheTrees · 20-11-2016 02:23PM

RobertKK wrote: »

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

yeah. A bit like the US elections if the US had suspended the constitution for 40 years, ruled under emergency powers, and started massacring civilians when they came out to protest.

alastair · 20-11-2016 02:24PM

RobertKK wrote: »

So thousands protested out of a population of many millions.

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

Nope. A bit like the US elections except the state responded by torture and killings, multiplying the scale of protests many times over. This Saudi CT is at odds with the record of what actually happened there.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/22/syria-protests-forces-shoot

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 03:01PM

alastair wrote: »

Nope. A bit like the US elections except the state responded by torture and killings, multiplying the scale of protests many times over. This Saudi CT is at odds with the record if what actually happened there.

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

Christy42 · 20-11-2016 03:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

I am curious why you keep mentioning Clinton's links with Saudi but not Donald's when you reportedly hate them both.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 03:11PM

alastair wrote: »

And nor has the George W Bush Library, but the Saudis typically donate to US political leaders. It's only because of the Bush and Clinton role in US governance that the Saudis supported those charities. As I said - Trump manages to avoid this particular association, merely because he's not been involved in governing. He does of course have direct business-related connections, but I guess they don't really help make whatever case you're trying to fabricate.

It's not actually a fact at all. If you're making the case that terrorist groups subsequently became involved in the war, on account of power vacuums, then sure, but you'll have to concede that there are terrorists supporting Assad too.

The Clintons and the Bushes are friends, two peas in a pod. Hopefully we never see them again in areas of significant power.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 03:24PM

Christy42 wrote: »

I am curious why you keep mentioning Clinton's links with Saudi but not Donald's when you reportedly hate them both.

You mean Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia who bought Trump's yacht when he was in financial trouble, or the hotel that was going bankrupt?

Trump said he never met Prince Alwaleed (who is linked to funding terrorism) and he has never met him or liked his style.
Alaweed tweeted that Trump is a disgrace to the GOP and to America, and said he should withdraw from the Presidential race as he would never win.

I don't think there is much love between them.

Trump also said Saudi Arabia were behind 9/11.

“Who blew up the World Trade Center? It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,”

then on another occasion he said
“It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center, it wasn’t the Iraqis. You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center, ‘cuz they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it’s the Saudis, okay? But you will find out.”

So you can see how much love there is between Trump and the Saudis.

Brian? · 20-11-2016 03:28PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You mean Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia who bought Trump's yacht when he was in financial trouble, or the hotel that was going bankrupt?

Trump said he never met Prince Alwaleed (who is linked to funding terrorism) and he has never met him or liked his style.
Alaweed tweeted that Trump is a disgrace to the GOP and to America, and said he should withdraw from the Presidential race as he would never win.

I don't think there is much love between them.

Trump also said Saudi Arabia were behind 9/11.

“Who blew up the World Trade Center? It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,”

then on another occasion he said
“It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center, it wasn’t the Iraqis. You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center, ‘cuz they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it’s the Saudis, okay? But you will find out.”

So you can see how much love there is between Trump and the Saudis.

You hate the Saudis so much you've performed the mental gymnastics required to support Assad. Assad is a heartless butcher.

RobertKK · 20-11-2016 03:33PM

Brian? wrote: »

You hate the Saudis so much you've performed the mental gymnastics required to support Assad. Assad is a heartless butcher.

For some people a sale of distressed assets that are undertaken by a creditors about 25 years ago is equivalent to the Clintons taking in money from Saudi Arabia in the past 5 or 6 years, after 9/11 when they had been under constant suspicion of being behind 9/11.

Assad is the devil that is known, maybe people prefer the Saudi supported devils who are even far far worse and far far more intolerant.

Count Dooku · 20-11-2016 05:38PM

Brian? wrote: »

Assad is a heartless butcher.

He is just trying to build a secular state in Middle East

Count Dooku · 20-11-2016 05:42PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

You do realise that the US military doesn't actually provide the current DEFCON level and that's just some random speculation site, right?

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

alastair · 20-11-2016 06:34PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

It's not an 'independent NGO'. It's a couple of hobbyist nerds with a blog. Nobody believes in this, except for gullible regurgitators of false news memes.

alastair · 20-11-2016 06:36PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

As I already said - the reality is at odds with your Saudi CT.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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