Louise O Neill on rape culture.

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 02:58PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Who's ignoring it?

Were they brought to justice?

What other stories are there that haven't been looked at by police?

You had to ask.......

Poor Uncle Tom · 19-11-2016 03:06PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The correct response ........

I see!

Widdershins · 19-11-2016 03:06PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The correct response is to ban Islam, or to ban Muslims, on public safety grounds.

Our cultures are incompatible.

Islam sees rape and child rape as acceptable. The Irish don't, and there's no middle ground. Therefore, Islam must be banned.

Secular Muslims only would work for me..but no way to actually determine if they are truly secular.

And no, I do not think religious freedom is more important in this instance.

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 03:18PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No, the problem is people innocent of any wrongdoing are being asked to share the blame for a disgusting crime.

Of course rape happens in a vacuum. And of course rape happens because some groups are going to just ignore it. It's the following logical leap that there's a widespread rape culture throughout society that I take issue with.

But it's not just ignoring rape. It's ignoring any behaviour along the way.

The example I gave of the guy who apparently constantly harrassed the girls in his group of friends IMO opinion (obviously can't prove this) is more likely to commit a rape or sexual assault than the type of guy who thinks this guy is an idiot.

Now his male friends not making an issue of his behaviour may contribute to a future assault. And so might his female friends putting up with him. I'm not saying they are to blame. But there is a culture of acceptance there that might contribute to a future assault.

tomofson · 19-11-2016 03:19PM

Why are use letting agenda pushers hijack the thread?

If someone wants to talk about Islam or Muslims then make a separate thread about it

givyjoe · 19-11-2016 03:20PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Except the above is completely untrue. We would like to assume bystanders would spring to the woman's defense but what they actually do is ignore it.

Think I already told this story in this thread but a few weeks back was walking home at 5am, massive guy was walking in the same direction a good bit ahead of me. Anytime a girl walking towards us passed him he would lunge at her and try and put his arms round her. Nobody said a word to him.

Fairly simple reason, he was massive and would likely have just beaten the **** out of anyone who tried to intervene.

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 03:27PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Fairly simple reason, he was massive and would likely have just beaten the **** out of anyone who tried to intervene.

Ah but according to this thread his behaviour WOULD JUST NOT BE ALLOWED. Therefore it never happened and there's no problem.

Widdershins · 19-11-2016 03:29PM

tomofson wrote: »

Why are use letting agenda pushers hijack the thread?

If someone wants to talk about Islam or Muslims then make a separate thread about it

It's rape culture in the Islamic world, it could not get more relevant to this thread, in my opinion. I note you didn't object to the references to the Catholic Church!

Muhammed_1 · 19-11-2016 03:35PM

tomofson wrote: »

Why are use letting agenda pushers hijack the thread?

If someone wants to talk about Islam or Muslims then make a separate thread about it

Muslims represent the only genuine large scale rape culture in Ireland, now that the Catholic priests have been emasculated.

You want to discuss 'rape culture in Ireland' while excluding all discussion in relation to Islam, despite the fact that Islam represents the only true example of rape culture in Ireland.

Islam is a rape culture, That cannot be ignored.

Islam deserves its place in rape discussions, as rape is permitted in its holy books.

givyjoe · 19-11-2016 03:47PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah but according to this thread his behaviour WOULD JUST NOT BE ALLOWED. Therefore it never happened and there's no problem.

What nonsense are you on about? Quite simply in the example you gave there wasn't someone big enough to deal with him. One big lad acting the pest, doesn't = a cultural or soceital problem. No one here is talking in absolutes.

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 04:01PM

givyjoe wrote: »

What nonsense are you on about? Quite simply in the example you gave there wasn't someone big enough to deal with him. One big lad acting the pest, doesn't = a cultural or soceital problem. No one here is talking in absolutes.

You've no idea who the bystanders were or how big they were. You're just coming from the perspective that these things do not happen , therefore it must have been his size that was the issue. If you read the link I posted earlier there's countless examples of bystanders doin nothing. I suppose it was a giant in all those cases too?

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 04:10PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Bystanders doing nothing is a pretty common thing in all sorts of scenarios, some significantly more horrific than the example being used here. It's a ****ty thing, but it's certainly not evidence of rape culture.

It's evidene of a culture that doesn't take sexual inappropriateness seriously enough which may lead to more serious actions. For example, the guy whose friends turn a blind eye to his harrassment are not experiencing the bystander effect. They're just minimising his bad sexual behaviour.

But my main poin with this big guy trying to grab women was to argue against the completely untrue notion that these things cannot happen as they will always be shut down by bystanders. Even if you don't believe in rape culture there's no need to alter reality.

Muhammed_1 · 19-11-2016 04:11PM

I would expect people in general to ignore crimes occurring right in front of them. Any time this is tested with fake crimes the crimes are often ignored. People would walk past a person being mugged or raped.

What can the average person do?

Getting involved is a bad idea.

I've seen many men and women argue late at night, most likely on drink or drugs. If people intervene then both parties tend to turn on the newcomer. As the guy is angry he often lashes out at the good samartian. His girl supports him and she hits the samartian with her shoes.

Better off leaving other people be, even if you think a crime may be being committed.

(unusual verb tense that, .. 'a crime may be being committed')

givyjoe · 19-11-2016 04:19PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

You've no idea who the bystanders were or how big they were. You're just coming from the perspective that these things do not happen , therefore it must have been his size that was the issue. If you read the link I posted earlier there's countless examples of bystanders doin nothing. I suppose it was a giant in all those cases too?

Banging my head against a wall here with you. When the hell did I say these things dont happen? You either can't read or are just making things up to suit your invalid argument.

Tell me oh righteous one, why didnt you intervene? According to your ludicrous logic, you yourself are perpetuating a rape culture or one that minimises the seriousness or sexual assault.

Your opinions on this are seriously naieve and lacking common sense. I'll say it again, the reason why 99℅ of passers by didn't intervene due to size, not wanting to get into a drunken altercation which could easily end up with them being done for assault or worse, end up in hospital themselves. It doesn't mean they dont think he is absolute tool for doing what he did.

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2016 04:31PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Banging my head against a wall here..

You said it. You're wasting your time.

All studies, research and experiments in this area show us that in the vast majority of cases the public will come to aid of a woman being attacked or abused but the opposite it is true when it is a man that is being attacked or abused. You will always get the rare example of course but in general that is what has been observed.

None so blind as those that will not see and all that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

LLMMLL · 19-11-2016 04:50PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No, it's evidence that bystanders often fail to do anything in situations where they should. People's friends turning a blind eye to their bad behaviour isn't something exclusive to sexual assault either. It could be because they're assholes too, it could be because they want to see the best in their friend, it could be any number of things.

So with the big guy it can only be that He was big, or maybe the bystander effect. With the group of lads, it can be wanting to see the best, or that they're al assholes.

So basically you don't know why these things happen but you're 100% sure it can't be that sexual inappropriateness is not taken seriously enough....... Right. You seem very certain on an issue you're also being
Completely uncertain about.

zeroliner · 19-11-2016 04:54PM

ZeroThreat wrote: »

hmm O'Neill seems to be an attention seeking narcissist above all else.

agree x 100000

givyjoe · 19-11-2016 05:48PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-woman-tourist-arrested-charged-jail-dubai-gang-rape-extra-marital-sex-hotel-uae-police-a7420616.html

This is what you could call an actual 'rape culture'.

zeroliner · 19-11-2016 06:40PM

Louise is a self obsessed Whinger of the highest degree.

19-11-2016 06:43PM

Her latest "masterpiece"

edit http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/we-should-find-what-we-love-and-do-as-much-of-it-as-we-can-431251.html
I used to have very specific ideas about the concept of privacy, ie that I deserved it but I refused to afford this courtesy to those around me.

I read my sister’s diary all the time when we were children, on one occasion writing notes in the margin telling her to stop complaining about me.

I read other people’s letters, I eavesdropped on people’s conversations, I looked through my mother’s text messages, I hacked my sister’s Facebook account, I made an ex-boyfriend give me the passwords to his Gmail account so I could look through his emails.

Weirdly, we’re not together anymore. I know. It’s confusing for me too.

Widdershins · 19-11-2016 07:11PM

Sasha Wide Squash wrote: »

Her latest "masterpiece"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoi...an-431251.html

I used to have very specific ideas about the concept of privacy, ie that I deserved it but I refused to afford this courtesy to those around me.

I read my sister’s diary all the time when we were children, on one occasion writing notes in the margin telling her to stop complaining about me.

I read other people’s letters, I eavesdropped on people’s conversations, I looked through my mother’s text messages, I hacked my sister’s Facebook account, I made an ex-boyfriend give me the passwords to his Gmail account so I could look through his emails.

Weirdly, we’re not together anymore. I know. It’s confusing for me too.

Tried link, Page Not Found, Error 101..

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2016 07:15PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Tried link, Page Not Found, Error 101..

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/we-should-find-what-we-love-and-do-as-much-of-it-as-we-can-431251.html

b_mac2 · 19-11-2016 07:22PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/we-should-find-what-we-love-and-do-as-much-of-it-as-we-can-431251.html

She has some serious self esteem issues.

tomofson · 19-11-2016 07:50PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Muslims represent the only genuine large scale rape culture in Ireland, now that the Catholic priests have been emasculated.

You want to discuss 'rape culture in Ireland' while excluding all discussion in relation to Islam, despite the fact that Islam represents the only true example of rape culture in Ireland.

Islam is a rape culture, That cannot be ignored.

Islam deserves its place in rape discussions, as rape is permitted in its holy books.

I have never heard of ANY islamic rapes in Ireland full stop. They aren't happening in this country there is no worthwhile discussion to be had.

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2016 07:59PM

b_mac2 wrote: »

She has some serious self esteem issues.

Indeed, which kinda makes her a hard person to dislike for me, as I can she has had some difficulties in her life and also that these beliefs which she clings to have been partially responsible for her doing better in life and so to then say she is deluded for holding these views takes on an extra dimension as a result, which is unfortunate as I genuinely don't think anyone would take pleasure in seeing her regress with regards to her health. Career wise, perhaps.

Seemingly in her teens and early 20's she suffered quite badly with anorexia and bulimia and it's cool that she seems to be "80% better" now and I certainly wouldn't begrudge her the success she has had with that first novel (Only Ever Yours) which is a book she wrote to express her view that patriarchal society, and they way it is structured, puts enormous pressure on girls to look a certain way. Something which she without question feels contributed to her becoming ill.

http://www.thejournal.ie/louise-oneill-1765821-Nov2014/

me_right_one · 19-11-2016 08:06PM

I dont give a fluck how sick she was or is. If Nigel Farage had bulimia, I wouldnt give a fluck either. It might explain their behaviour, but it doesnt excuse it.

19-11-2016 08:22PM

me_right_one wrote: »

I dont give a fluck how sick she was or is. If Nigel Farage had bulimia, I wouldnt give a fluck either. It might explain their behaviour, but it doesnt excuse it.

if I remember rightly from an interview she did, it was her therapist who instilled her feminist ideology in LON

testaccount123 · 19-11-2016 08:25PM

tomofson wrote: »

I have never heard of ANY islamic rapes in Ireland full stop. They aren't happening in this country there is no worthwhile discussion to be had.

He said rape culture, not rape.

Widdershins · 19-11-2016 08:32PM

tomofson wrote: »

I have never heard of ANY islamic rapes in Ireland full stop. They aren't happening in this country there is no worthwhile discussion to be had.

Wow. And how do you expect to hear of them? They don't all make headlines.

This one, however, did, and not long ago. So yes, there is a very worthwhile discussion to be had.

The rapist is a man who ''grew up within a strict Islamic culture'' according to psychologist Dr Rioghnach O'Leary. In his culture ''people like her'', the victim who has Down Syndrome, would be shut away, so he says he did not know she had Downs Syndrome.

When he moved to Ireland to find work he did not interact with any women for two years and was surprised “at the more liberal approach here”, Dr O'Leary said.
Couples holding hands and kissing on the street were “quite jarring” to him.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-accused-of-raping-woman-with-down-syndrome-does-not-have-intelligence-to-adapt-to-social-norms-in-ireland-trial-hears-34286366.html

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2016 08:50PM

me_right_one wrote: »

I dont give a fluck how sick she was or is. If Nigel Farage had bulimia, I wouldnt give a fluck either. It might explain their behaviour, but it doesnt excuse it.

I didn't cite what I did to "excuse" anything she has said or done. If I felt that I would hardly have been condemning her as I have been. I would have just be posting saying 'Ah, would ye leave her alone, she was ill for heaven sake'. What I'm saying is that I find it harder to ridicule someone for their views and behaviors when those views and behaviors have seemingly been part of them regaining their health. Having empathy for her in that regard doesn't mean I am making excuses for anything that she has said or done. I'm not.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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