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Is racism, misogyny and xenophobia becoming the norm again?

24567…13

Comments

  • #32
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Tyson Fury wrote: »
    There should be a site ban for any SJW at this stage. Either that or separate forum and throw the PC brigade in with them.

    Yeah! Ban everyone you don't agree with!


  • #33
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Living in post Brexit UK it struck me how few people just came out and called Farage for what he was, a xenophobe and arguably racist character. Trump, a racist misogynist by many accounts who bragged about sexual assault was elected but many seem to be happy with this. All politics aside has racism and xenophobia come to the forefront and are less people likely to call it for what it is?

    I understand large parts of the UK and USA are disenfranchised. I grew up in real poverty myself (as opposed to some loose definitions) so I understand what it is to be disenfranchised however I don't buy that argument when people use it to support racist or xenophobic people like Trump and Farage. It isn't backing anti-establishment it's backing racism.

    I'm the first to state that some people are looking for misogyny or xenophobia when there is none but it's fair to say a man bragging about sexual assault, a judge being Mexican and Farage complaining about Romanian neighbors isn't a case of me being oversensitive. E.G I don't think talking about immigration or talking about a scientists wearing a shirt with women on it however this latest movement clearly is.

    Why is all this on the rise again?

    When you have collusion between one of the main establishment parties in the UK, Labour, the police, social services and an immigrant community that protects a gang of men that rape 1400 young girls over a 10 year period, in just one location, in the UK, do you not think you'll get some type of backlash against said establishment?

    Now add in Rochdale, Oxford, Doncaster and many others to the Rotherham example above and with evidence pointing to this hush-hush behaviour as an attempt to shore up votes for the political party in question, why are you surprised at this?

    Add in the loss of jobs in the industrial north of England and you can see why there is a backlash against the establishment. The party that was supposed to represent the working class, Labour, has betrayed that class.

    When people feel betrayed they look for an alternative. No matter how unpalatable that alternative may seem.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beks101 wrote: »
    In before "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES" rabble rabble rabble...

    TRIGGERED! All these buzzwords allegedly used to describe people who are trying to stifle dissenting views, are...used to shut up people with dissenting views.

    I think the big question is why do the working and non-working poor support policies that target immigrants and at worst seem racist, and is it to do with how people perceive social supports, the availability of low-skilled employment, and a fear of being left behind in a (generally) more educated and tech advanced world they feel separated from?

    Is it because Trump, Farage et al stick to simple sounding solutions that scapegoat minorities so people feel they can point at something solid to blame that can be acted on (and isn't too close to home).


  • #35
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

    I'm not talking about unionism. I'm talking about normal progressive people backing racists and xenophobes.
    Which progressives support racism? They would not be progressives. Progressives believe in multiculturalism. Xenophobia is normal, I hate outsiders.


  • #36
    Mr Joe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭Mr Joe


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Always surprises me when people say they are shocked to hear such views. Do people live underground or something?
    Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D


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  • #37
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,962 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    They were always there, had never gone away. Now that we're seeing generations in the western world that will do less well on average than that which preceeded them politics of outright division and discontent will be more popular.

    If you don't like this (I sure don't) it's time to realise that calling people stupid for thinking like that and / or pretending that everyone's life is inexorably improving seems like a doomed strategy. If making laws coercing speech and expression eliminated this stuff, the UK would never have suffered Brexit.

    You have to engage these ideas openly and honestly before arguing them down. You have to stand for real policies and a vision of society that road maps improvement across all spectrums. And you have to stop belittling people and denying them a voice. Because they'll find a voice in the polling booth, and people like Trump, Farage and Le Pen know that.


  • #38
    ligerdub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    looksee wrote: »
    Well he doesn't want to / doesn't pay tax, or if he does he is very secretive about it, I would say that makes him anti-establishment :D

    Erroneous.


  • #39
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Mr Joe wrote: »
    Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

    Well Brexit was a middle class crusade led by Johnson et al so I don't see the middle class as blameless.


  • #40
    The Wolverine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭The Wolverine


    After the "shocks" of Brexit and Trumps election, the response is to double down on they are all racist

    Lessons still haven't been learned it seems :)

    Which is good as it will only bolster the likes of Le Pen, Wilders, AFD, etc which will no doubt be "shocks" in time as well :)


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well Brexit was a middle class crusade led by Johnson et al so I don't see the middle class as blameless.

    If you look at the map of who voted, it's pretty clear the exit vote was vastly led by a lower income demographic. There's just no denying that.


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  • #42
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Mr Joe wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Always surprises me when people say they are shocked to hear such views. Do people live underground or something?
    Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D
    A bit like the 'protesters' smashing crap up all over America. Most of them probably don't work.


  • #43
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Mr Joe wrote: »
    Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

    I'm an academic and my job is threatened by anyone better than me. It's a very multicultural sector.


  • #44
    ligerdub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    This is my view exactly. How is a man who inherited millions and a former hedge fund manager anti establishment?

    He was never a hedge fund manager. I often wonder why that is always the term used to describe someone who worked in finance/investments even though it's entirely wide of the mark. It's usually done in a manner which projects a subtle dig at the guys ethics for some reason too.

    How many different ways is this sort of discussion going to be rebranded anyway? It must be up to about version 50 at this stage.


  • #45
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    People talking about all those horrible words like racist and sexism but rarely do they mention sectarianism. Different groups don't like each other in society and usually the extreme factions gain ground in a vacuum.


  • #46
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Candie wrote: »
    If you look at the map of who voted, it's pretty clear the exit vote was vastly led by a lower income demographic. There's just no denying that.

    Yes I agree but unfortunately led by people of privilege like Johnson, Gove and Farage. People who will be relatively unaffected. Also the age of the voters played a large part.


  • #47
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

    We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.


  • #48
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Mr Joe wrote: »
    Yawn. Just another poorly disguised attempt to abuse Farage and Trump. Why not use one of the many other threads for your moral outrage. People like you have rendered words like racist and misogynist pretty much meangingless at this stage, the way you throw them about at will. It's all your ilk has left to offer.

    I don't remember disguising it?


  • #49
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭MOH


    Should we all be racist now?


  • #50
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

    We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.
    The same millions of people who have been brainwashed in mainstream schools to believe in one narrative and leftism, to not question Islam, don't question mass immigration. Maybe they have just been woken up to decades of brainwashing.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

    We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.

    I think you're right. After four years of Trump I suspect the pendulum will have swung as far right as it will go and things will begin to settle somewhere around the middle when the consequences become clear.

    I really hope so, anyway.


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  • #52
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    This is my view exactly. How is a man who inherited millions and a former hedge fund manager anti establishment?

    Illusion is what he is good at.

    Farage has perfected a verbose, wide-boy character down pat.

    Couches everything in simple language that people can understand and that resonates. He likes his pint and his fag. He's one of the lads. People think they can trust him.

    Compare him to Miliband who was an odd-ball, Cameron and Clegg who were Establishment incarnate and now even Corbyn - a throwback to the 70's time when Unions ground the UK to a halt under Wilson and Callaghan.

    Remember as well Farage is new, relatively speaking, on the National scene. Oh he's pottered around in Europe for years but really only started making a name for himself over the last 4/5 years.

    Has never been in power either, so has never fcked up. Or broken any promises as a result.


  • #53
    cantdecide
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,363 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    What's happened is that the left never realised that they'd become part of the corrupt establishment until the right started to win as the underdog. Since social media became all pervasive, people have become jaded by being told what to say and what to think.

    I have only recently began to learn the value of freedom of speech. I will truly defend to the death your right to be a bigoted, narrow minded idiot.


  • #54
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

    We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.
    Or they veer in the complete opposite direction and embrace far-left populism instead.


  • #55
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Ideas of equality, tolerance, multiculturalism are all fine until they become policy - once they become politically mandated you instantly create resistance. Not only that, they are extremely new in the grand scheme of humanity and are as such "untested". They feel intuitively right to us educated and socially indoctrinated westerners but not everyone feels the same. We do not have the monopoly on truth or ethics.

    And when you make policy based on how it makes you feel, you're soon to run into reality like a brick wall.


  • #56
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    And then you've the lovable buffoon in Boris.

    Can't really compete with John Major and Gordon Brown telling you the EU isn't great, but it's better than the alternative.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #57
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Illusion is what he is good at.

    Farage has perfected a verbose, wide-boy character down pat.

    Couches everything in simple language that people can understand and that resonates. He likes his pint and his fag. He's one of the lads. People think they can trust him.

    Compare him to Miliband who was an odd-ball, Cameron and Clegg who were Establishment incarnate and now even Corbyn - a throwback to the 70's time when Unions ground the UK to a halt under Wilson and Callaghan.

    Remember as well Farage is new, relatively speaking, on the National scene. Oh he's pottered around in Europe for years but really only started making a name for himself over the last 4/5 years.

    Has never been in power, so has never fcked up.

    After Brexit, Farage claimed he was quitting to "get his life back". He then appears repeatedly on the news to have a go at May and more recently he's helping out Trump.


  • #58
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    The same millions of people who have been brainwashed in mainstream schools to believe in one narrative and leftism, to not question Islam, don't question mass immigration. Maybe they have just been woken up to decades of brainwashing.
    I was brought up in Ireland, where we were taught critical thinking, cute hoorism and that there is no such thing as an unbiased source.. This was pre Facebook Ireland mind you, I think some of those attributes have been dulled in the younger generations.


  • #59
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

    We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.

    This is something I don't understand. It was the actions of globalists that caused this resentment through leaving behind unemployed and causing social instability, while completely ignoring the issues these people had. When you demonise someone for being resentful that they lost their jobs, when you demonise someone who for not liking their wages being deflated thanks to massive immigration, you tend to force that person into reacting with their gut, voting for the person they think will alleviate their problem

    Instead of complaining about how they fell for a charlatan's tricks, why not get off the fúcking high horse and try to find a solution to the problem?


  • #60
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't get it though. Social justice have their loonies but voting for a man who brags about sexually women is a rebound to that how?

    It's quite simple. By demonising the legitimate concerns of the moderate right, they pushed some of that group further to the right and into the hands of Brexit and Trump.


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  • #61
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    K-9 wrote: »
    And then you've the lovable buffoon in Boris.

    Can't really compete with John Major and Gordon Brown telling you the EU isn't great, but it's better than the alternative.

    I met Boris' brother who is involved with the Royal Society in the UK. My boss met Boris once or twice and described him as a union of social Darwinism and inbreeding. I think it's dangerous to assume that Boris' buffoon act is an act.


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