Is racism, misogyny and xenophobia becoming the norm again?

steddyeddy

Living in post Brexit UK it struck me how few people just came out and called Farage for what he was, a xenophobe and arguably racist character. Trump, a racist misogynist by many accounts who bragged about sexual assault was elected but many seem to be happy with this. All politics aside has racism and xenophobia come to the forefront and are less people likely to call it for what it is?

I understand large parts of the UK and USA are disenfranchised. I grew up in real poverty myself (as opposed to some loose definitions) so I understand what it is to be disenfranchised however I don't buy that argument when people use it to support racist or xenophobic people like Trump and Farage. It isn't backing anti-establishment it's backing racism.

I'm the first to state that some people are looking for misogyny or xenophobia when there is none but it's fair to say a man bragging about sexual assault, a judge being Mexican and Farage complaining about Romanian neighbors isn't a case of me being oversensitive. E.G I don't think talking about immigration or talking about a scientists wearing a shirt with women on it however this latest movement clearly is.

Why is all this on the rise again?

Too Tough To Die

No.

Nope.

Mr Joe

Yawn. Just another poorly disguised attempt to abuse Farage and Trump. Why not use one of the many other threads for your moral outrage. People like you have rendered words like racist and misogynist pretty much meangingless at this stage, the way you throw them about at will. It's all your ilk has left to offer.

steddyeddy

Mr Joe wrote: »

Yawn. Just another poorly disguised attempt to abuse Farage and Trump. Why not use one of the many other threads for your moral outrage. People like you have rendered words like racist and misogynist pretty much meangingless at this stage, the way you throw them about at will. It's all your ilk has left to offer.

He (Trump) bragged about sexually assaulting women. What would he have to do to make him a misogynist?

Grayson

steddyeddy wrote: »

He (Trump) bragged about sexually assaulting women. What would he have to do to make him a misogynist?

Start rating them out of 10?

beks101

In before "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES" rabble rabble rabble...

Mr Joe

beks101 wrote: »

In before "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES" rabble rabble rabble...

Shame this thread is just "RACIST, SEXIST, MISOGYNIST," rabble rabble

Saipanne

It's a rebound to the lunacy of the social justice crowd.

Jimoslimos

steddyeddy wrote: »

I understand large parts of the UK and USA are disenfranchised. I grew up in real poverty myself (as opposed to some loose definitions) so I understand what it is to be disenfranchised however I don't buy that argument when people use it to support racist or xenophobic people like Trump and Farage. It isn't backing anti-establishment it's backing racism.

Yeah I've often struggled to see the anti-establishment credentials of a billionaire real-estate dealer and an ex City trader.

aidan203

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

steddyeddy

Saipanne wrote: »

It's a rebound to the lunacy of the social justice crowd.

I don't get it though. Social justice have their loonies but voting for a man who brags about sexually women is a rebound to that how?

suicide_circus

Ideas of equality, tolerance, multiculturalism are all fine until they become policy - once they become politically mandated you instantly create resistance. Not only that, they are extremely new in the grand scheme of humanity and are as such "untested". They feel intuitively right to us educated and socially indoctrinated westerners but not everyone feels the same. We do not have the monopoly on truth or ethics.

steddyeddy

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Yeah I've often struggled to see the anti-establishment credentials of a billionaire real-estate dealer and an ex City trader.

This is my view exactly. How is a man who inherited millions and a former hedge fund manager anti establishment?

steddyeddy

Ignoring Trump and Farage you only have to look at some of the headlines in the UK tabloids to see that xenophobia is becoming more prevalent.

ScumLord

steddyeddy wrote: »

Living in post Brexit UK it struck me how few people just came out and called Farage for what he was, a xenophobe and arguably racist character.

I don't know what Farage is saying, I ignore him.

Maybe Trump and Brexit will work out in the end. Either they'll live up to the hype and make positive changes, or they'll fail miserably and the nostalgics that support these people will learn a valuable lesson.

The most likely scenario is probably that nothing will change, trump and Farge are not emperors, they can only do so much.

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know what Farage is saying, I ignore him.

Maybe Trump and Brexit will work out in the end. Either they'll live up to the hype and make positive changes, or they'll fail miserably and the nostalgics that support these people will learn a valuable lesson.

The most likely scenario is probably that nothing will change, trump and Farge are not emperors, they can only do so much.

It's not the people, it's the sentiment of those people who support them despite their views. It's worrying how it's becoming the norm or unchallenged.

brevity

I think this sort of stuff is always there but comes around in a more noticeable fashion every generation.

Mr Joe

Saipanne wrote: »

It's a rebound to the lunacy of the social justice crowd.

They don't understand that, and are just doubling down in their rhetoric as this thread shows.

I don't think they are becoming the norm, I don't see a return to the days of the 80s, homosexuality criminalised, Ethiopian jokes doing the rounds etc.

But there certainly seems to be a fight back from conservative elements, and that has seen some ugly figures elevated beyond their abilities on the basis (however far fetched) that they are anti establishment and promise change.

K-9

Err, Farage and Trump were called out on xenophobia etc.

But, I'll call you triggered, generation snowflake, SJWs in a totally lacking of self awareness way!

brevity

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not the people, it's the sentiment of those people who support them despite their views. It's worrying how it's becoming the norm or unchallenged.

People challenge them but are called SJW/Libtards/traitors etc... it's grim at the moment alright. They anonymity of the internet is another factor.

diomed

The moral high ground is getting overcrowded.

midnight city

What trump was describing in his oafish sort of way was basically lobbing the gob on women and once he wasn't rejected he would then start with the wandering hands. Listening to the audio it doesn't seem to be a case of grabbing a woman by the pussy out of the blue.

Mantis Toboggan

There should be a site ban for any SJW at this stage. Either that or separate forum and throw the PC brigade in with them.

looksee

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is my view exactly. How is a man who inherited millions and a former hedge fund manager anti establishment?

Well he doesn't want to / doesn't pay tax, or if he does he is very secretive about it, I would say that makes him anti-establishment

A Little Pony

Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

brevity

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

It's probably the inbreeding.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

I'm not talking about unionism. I'm talking about normal progressive people backing racists and xenophobes.

K-9

Tyson Fury wrote: »

There should be a site ban for any SJW at this stage. Either that or separate forum and throw the PC brigade in with them.

And the alt righters. Whoever is offended and outraged enough wins.

A Little Pony

brevity wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

It's probably the inbreeding.

Always surprises me when people say they are shocked to hear such views. Do people live underground or something?

super_furry

Tyson Fury wrote: »

There should be a site ban for any SJW at this stage. Either that or separate forum and throw the PC brigade in with them.

Yeah! Ban everyone you don't agree with!

Ulysses Gaze

steddyeddy wrote: »

Living in post Brexit UK it struck me how few people just came out and called Farage for what he was, a xenophobe and arguably racist character. Trump, a racist misogynist by many accounts who bragged about sexual assault was elected but many seem to be happy with this. All politics aside has racism and xenophobia come to the forefront and are less people likely to call it for what it is?

I understand large parts of the UK and USA are disenfranchised. I grew up in real poverty myself (as opposed to some loose definitions) so I understand what it is to be disenfranchised however I don't buy that argument when people use it to support racist or xenophobic people like Trump and Farage. It isn't backing anti-establishment it's backing racism.

I'm the first to state that some people are looking for misogyny or xenophobia when there is none but it's fair to say a man bragging about sexual assault, a judge being Mexican and Farage complaining about Romanian neighbors isn't a case of me being oversensitive. E.G I don't think talking about immigration or talking about a scientists wearing a shirt with women on it however this latest movement clearly is.

Why is all this on the rise again?

When you have collusion between one of the main establishment parties in the UK, Labour, the police, social services and an immigrant community that protects a gang of men that rape 1400 young girls over a 10 year period, in just one location, in the UK, do you not think you'll get some type of backlash against said establishment?

Now add in Rochdale, Oxford, Doncaster and many others to the Rotherham example above and with evidence pointing to this hush-hush behaviour as an attempt to shore up votes for the political party in question, why are you surprised at this?

Add in the loss of jobs in the industrial north of England and you can see why there is a backlash against the establishment. The party that was supposed to represent the working class, Labour, has betrayed that class.

When people feel betrayed they look for an alternative. No matter how unpalatable that alternative may seem.

beks101

beks101 wrote: »

In before "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES" rabble rabble rabble...

TRIGGERED! All these buzzwords allegedly used to describe people who are trying to stifle dissenting views, are...used to shut up people with dissenting views.

I think the big question is why do the working and non-working poor support policies that target immigrants and at worst seem racist, and is it to do with how people perceive social supports, the availability of low-skilled employment, and a fear of being left behind in a (generally) more educated and tech advanced world they feel separated from?

Is it because Trump, Farage et al stick to simple sounding solutions that scapegoat minorities so people feel they can point at something solid to blame that can be acted on (and isn't too close to home).

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always been normal up in these parts, we are just a rugged people.

I'm not talking about unionism. I'm talking about normal progressive people backing racists and xenophobes.

Which progressives support racism? They would not be progressives. Progressives believe in multiculturalism. Xenophobia is normal, I hate outsiders.

Mr Joe

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always surprises me when people say they are shocked to hear such views. Do people live underground or something?

Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

LuckyLloyd

They were always there, had never gone away. Now that we're seeing generations in the western world that will do less well on average than that which preceeded them politics of outright division and discontent will be more popular.

If you don't like this (I sure don't) it's time to realise that calling people stupid for thinking like that and / or pretending that everyone's life is inexorably improving seems like a doomed strategy. If making laws coercing speech and expression eliminated this stuff, the UK would never have suffered Brexit.

You have to engage these ideas openly and honestly before arguing them down. You have to stand for real policies and a vision of society that road maps improvement across all spectrums. And you have to stop belittling people and denying them a voice. Because they'll find a voice in the polling booth, and people like Trump, Farage and Le Pen know that.

ligerdub

looksee wrote: »

Well he doesn't want to / doesn't pay tax, or if he does he is very secretive about it, I would say that makes him anti-establishment

Erroneous.

steddyeddy

Mr Joe wrote: »

Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

Well Brexit was a middle class crusade led by Johnson et al so I don't see the middle class as blameless.

The Wolverine

After the "shocks" of Brexit and Trumps election, the response is to double down on they are all racist

Lessons still haven't been learned it seems

Which is good as it will only bolster the likes of Le Pen, Wilders, AFD, etc which will no doubt be "shocks" in time as well

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well Brexit was a middle class crusade led by Johnson et al so I don't see the middle class as blameless.

If you look at the map of who voted, it's pretty clear the exit vote was vastly led by a lower income demographic. There's just no denying that.

A Little Pony

Mr Joe wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Always surprises me when people say they are shocked to hear such views. Do people live underground or something?

Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

A bit like the 'protesters' smashing crap up all over America. Most of them probably don't work.

steddyeddy

Mr Joe wrote: »

Middle Class luvvies live in a bubble away from reality, it's why they're so shocked and can't understand recent political events. They aren't really threatened by mass immigration either, they rarely rival them for employment, schooling or live in their areas. Usually get their news from the Guardian, CNN, the Irish Times and Twitter. And yet think they have their fingers on the pulse....:D

I'm an academic and my job is threatened by anyone better than me. It's a very multicultural sector.

ligerdub

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is my view exactly. How is a man who inherited millions and a former hedge fund manager anti establishment?

He was never a hedge fund manager. I often wonder why that is always the term used to describe someone who worked in finance/investments even though it's entirely wide of the mark. It's usually done in a manner which projects a subtle dig at the guys ethics for some reason too.

How many different ways is this sort of discussion going to be rebranded anyway? It must be up to about version 50 at this stage.

KingBrian2

People talking about all those horrible words like racist and sexism but rarely do they mention sectarianism. Different groups don't like each other in society and usually the extreme factions gain ground in a vacuum.

steddyeddy

Candie wrote: »

If you look at the map of who voted, it's pretty clear the exit vote was vastly led by a lower income demographic. There's just no denying that.

Yes I agree but unfortunately led by people of privilege like Johnson, Gove and Farage. People who will be relatively unaffected. Also the age of the voters played a large part.

The Backwards Man

What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.

steddyeddy

Mr Joe wrote: »

Yawn. Just another poorly disguised attempt to abuse Farage and Trump. Why not use one of the many other threads for your moral outrage. People like you have rendered words like racist and misogynist pretty much meangingless at this stage, the way you throw them about at will. It's all your ilk has left to offer.

I don't remember disguising it?

MOH

Should we all be racist now?

A Little Pony

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.

The same millions of people who have been brainwashed in mainstream schools to believe in one narrative and leftism, to not question Islam, don't question mass immigration. Maybe they have just been woken up to decades of brainwashing.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What we're getting these days is the introduction of right wing populism into the homes of millions of people who have never had to engage in any critical thinking for themselves. Once they realise they've been sold a pup, they'll drop them like a hot potato.

We just have to hope there hasn't been too much damage done first.

I think you're right. After four years of Trump I suspect the pendulum will have swung as far right as it will go and things will begin to settle somewhere around the middle when the consequences become clear.

I really hope so, anyway.