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RWC Bid 2023/2027

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    #1232
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,035 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You've posted the same article three times. None of it supports your claims and again you have provided anecdotal evidence and little more. You've found two examples of cost over runs out of how many sports facilities produced in that 16 year period?



    They're not. They are basing it on a track record of massive commercial success from the tournament and the facts that have been presented by the committee put together to win the bid.

    Don't get me wrong, we all love sport (not just rugby) and to host an international sporting event is huge for the country.

    Come on time to come up with a few sources of your own

    Give me examples of how this will be a success

    Where is this massive commercial success ?


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    #1233
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,035 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Pot. Kettle. Black. You haven't a clue what you're talking about and you're choosing to ignore posters who are providing answers to all your questions.

    Show me evidence of how this will be a success ?


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    #1234
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Killarney is much more remote that either of those especially with the Adare bottleneck.

    Killarney has an international airport within 16 kilometers, that is served by a train line to the rest of the country.

    its almost 40km to Knock and the only connection is via Road.

    Killarney has 6 times the hotels that Castlebar has.

    realistically however, both wont make the cut if it goes from 12-8 venues,Derry will also be cut and Nowlan Park too.

    at 10 stadiums, i would think Derry and Castlebar will get the boot


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    #1235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

    World Rugby run this event to make money, if they feel that they can make more money from an event hosted in Europe than in NZ then they will charge the host nation accordingly.

    They don't care if the host nation makes a profit or loss, as long as they are paid and their event is hosted.

    Evidence for any of this please.


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    #1236
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    we dont deserve it at all, but it does appear we can get it - south Africa have failed 3 times in a row so its obvious the Rugby community just dont warm to them at all.

    Why don't we deserve it? We're a Tier 1 rugby country who has never held the tournament before (bar a couple of matches). If either of the other bids get it they will have held it twice v Ireland 0. We completely deserve it. We've been playing Rugby for donkeys and have helped its profile grow around the world. Rugby is very popular here, no matter what a few fans of other sports might think


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    #1237
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Korat wrote: »
    The venues I'd have concern about are Derry and Castlebar. It's easier to get to London from any point in Ireland than those locations unless infrastructure is seriously upgraded.

    You do realise people actually live in the West and North west its not some remote parkland that people come down from Dublin to go on holidays in ?:rolleyes:

    Castlebar is an hour from Sligo and Galway, just over an hour from Athlone and Longford. The Dublin train stops right beside the stadium.

    Knock airport is 20 minutes away and had over 100K passengers in one month alone. With 22 international destinations.

    Westport and Claremorris are only 10 minutes away with plenty of surplus hotel accommodation. Westport been one of the busiest tourist towns in the country and has no problem accommodating them.

    Even now Mchale park will easily seat 30K + and was only recently upgraded, and would be considered one of the best GAA grounds outside of Dublin, Limerick & Cork.

    So Korat, while you may find it remote from where you live, it is a lot better connected than you think. There is whole section of the country that it suits perfectly.;)

    If Irish Rugby wants its sport to spread beyond Leinster and Munster then Castlebar/Derry will need to be included.


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    #1238
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    yew_tree wrote: »
    Ah there is a runway in Knock. Do you think someone in Italy might go "oh hell me not flying on this charter into Knock" Arrogant statement.

    I'm curious as to how the statement is "arrogant".

    I would wager over 90% of travelling fans will arrive in either Dublin or Belfast. Knock is an irrelevance to the bid.


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    #1239
    gamma001
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    World Rugby run this event to make money, if they feel that they can make more money from an event hosted in Europe than in NZ then they will charge the host nation accordingly.

    It is a fixed fee of 100 million to host the RWC which is set out before the bidding process begins.

    It' won't be changed depending on what nation hosts.


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    #1240
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,035 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Evidence for any of this please.

    Common sense

    You keep looking for evidence but cannot supply or are unwilling to supply any of your own to backup your own points

    It's an echo chamber alright.


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    #1241
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Show me evidence of how this will be a success ?

    Your theory is that there aren't enough rugby supporters in Ireland to fill the stadium. Where's your evidence for this. It also been pointed out to you that hundreds of thousands of fans from other countries travel to world cups and spend weeks there. It happens at every world cup, but you've chosen to ignore the fact.


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    #1242
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Killarney is much more remote that either of those especially with the Adare bottleneck.

    Yeah, it is. It's the most remote stadium in the list. But I was just saying I don't think the poster was having a go at Derry(or Castlebar) and it's people. ;)


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    #1243
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Show me evidence of how this will be a success ?

    https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/impact-of-the-rugby-world-cup-for-world-rugby.html

    Download and read the report. The actual benefit to the UK economy was greater:
    • Rugby World Cup 2015 set new attendance, viewership and competition records
    • £2.3 billion economic output generated, £1.1 billion directly added to the UK GDP
    • 406,000 international visitors stayed an average of 14 days each in the UK, providing tourism and economic benefits to the host nation
    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Common sense

    You keep looking for evidence but cannot supply or are unwilling to supply any of your own to backup your own points

    It's an echo chamber alright.

    It's been posted plenty of times, you just keep ignoring it. Anyway, you aren't changing your mind and you can't back up your statements. Will leave it there with you.


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    #1244
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    World Rugby run this event to make money, if they feel that they can make more money from an event hosted in Europe than in NZ then they will charge the host nation accordingly.

    You realise this is categorically false? The hosting fee has nothing to do with the eventual location of the tournament


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    #1245
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,035 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    gamma001 wrote: »
    It is a fixed fee of 100 million to host the RWC which is set out before the bidding process begins.

    It' won't be changed depending on what nation hosts.

    And how much was it for Japan, England, Australia 2003 etc ?


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    #1246
    gamma001
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Show me evidence of how this will be a success ?

    Previous RWCs being a success in similar circumstances?


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    #1247
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    And how much was it for Japan, England, Australia 2003 etc ?

    How about you google it yourself. Because you choose to ignore everything you're told.


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    #1248
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    1. At least 3 GAA grounds will need upgrades that they currently don’t need or are not planned. It’s rare that we get value for money in this country for infrastructural projects, so I’ll hold my breath on the idea of these upgrades being minor or “cheap”.
    Already local politician are complaining about their town not being on the list of locations, you can be full sure the ones who’s are on the list will spare no expense in making sure they are ready.
    I hear Dick Spring talking about a “Rolls-Royce” bid, neither Celtic Park nor Castlebar are “Rolls-Royce”.

    2. For the 6N the Welsh/Scots etc only come over once every 2 years, in a world cup folks will be coming over 4 times in a month, now I know it won’t be the same people all the time but some will be, so I’d expect shorter, cheaper stays.


    3. Surely the TV revenue will be priced into the money that has to be paid to RWC to host the event, i.e if the TV revenue is going to be greater for Europe than NZ then the RWC will charge a bigger fee for a WC in Europe than in NZ

    4. I don’t think NZ is as good a comparison for Ireland as people want it to be. NZ got away with smaller stadiums because it was NZ, a small but very enthusiastic rugby country. Ireland has the problem of being less rugby enthusiastic and having a nearby bidding rival in France that can beat up on infrastructure

    1. Define a rolls royce bid. It is about offering an experience like no other, once the stadiums meet a decent basic requirement then that should be good enough. NZ were using cricket grounds etc. You seem to think the stadium upgrades involve building a few new croke parks in rural towns like castlebar. Surely these grounds getting upgraded facilities is good in the long term for the local GAA community if the upgrade comes with a big boost in tourist numbers? At worst 3-4 grounds will need some investment, say 2.5mil per ground. Is 10mil an excessive amount for grounds which get regular GAA use? I was in NZ in 2011 for a few of Irelands games, and I met fans from all around Europe who were living in camper vans and using them to move around from game to game, taking in everything NZ has to offer in the week between games.


    2. Ireland only play the welsh/scots every 2nd year but they travel in numbers to other away games in the 6n every year. A lot of games will be 5pm/8pm kick offs so minimum one night stays. Last year NZ played France in Cardiff and there was thousands of Irish at the game who had bought tickets for both QF on the one weekend in Cardiff, Ireland played Argentina the following day in the same ground. At one point the Fields of Athenry was the soundtrack to the game. So dont tell me there isnt an appetite for rugby in Ireland. On top of that, the rugby european cup are routes well travelled by many fans too.

    3. TV revenue will drive everything else. TV coverage will be massive because we have the biggest markets between 40 and 120 minutes away on a plane. Everything else will fall into place because of it. The media entourage which will be here will be huge.


    4. NZ is a fine example. It is at the far end of the world but the tournament was still a commercial success. If they can achieve that so far from the biggest rugby markets in the world then the only reason it wont work here is because of negative thinking people like you.


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    #1249
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Come on time to come up with a few sources of your own

    Give me examples of how this will be a success

    Where is this massive commercial success ?
    Go back a page or two and you'll find your question answered. The first RWC was not a success with only 60% sold. Since then it has averaged over 80% with 2015 selling 95%.

    Even 2011 in NZ with 85% take up, had gate receipts of £131 million from 1.5 million tickets sold.


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    #1250
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dublin Chamber of Commerce - 2 Billion to be added to the economy:


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    #1251
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Synode wrote: »
    Why don't we deserve it?

    because pure and simple, we do not have the infrastructure to deal with it.

    our rail network is crap, we dont have enough hotels, our stadiums are awful apart from about 4, we dont have enough corporate facilities.

    our airports also have a very poor capacity to take a sustained period of extra flights.


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    #1252
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,035 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/impact-of-the-rugby-world-cup-for-world-rugby.html

    Download and read the report. The actual benefit to the UK economy was greater:
    • Rugby World Cup 2015 set new attendance, viewership and competition records
    • £2.3 billion economic output generated, £1.1 billion directly added to the UK GDP
    • 406,000 international visitors stayed an average of 14 days each in the UK, providing tourism and economic benefits to the host nation



    It's been posted plenty of times, you just keep ignoring it. Anyway, you aren't changing your mind and you can't back up your statements. Will leave it there with you.

    I'll read it later

    But I'd hazard guess that the outlay in Engalnd was a lot less than it will be in Ireland

    They already had the stadiums, the infrastructure etc.
    And they had the critical mass of population to fill them.


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    #1253
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Might i suggest that one of the only things we as punters can actually do to improve our chances of hosting the RWC is to turn out in big numbers to the womens tournament.
    aside from the fact that it'll be a good standalone tournament with some serious athletes, there's a perfect opportunity to show that the irish population will support the game and create a good atmosphere.


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    #1254
    gamma001
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    And how much was it for Japan, England, Australia 2003 etc ?

    2015 RWC was for 80m pound bid which is was approx 110 million euro.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup

    http://www.x-rates.com/average/?from=GBP&to=EUR&amount=1&year=2007


    How does that matter? The fee is set BEFORE countries even bid, so the host country is NOTHING to do with the WR fee.


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    #1255
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I believe that the host nation pays a fee to RWC and then has to recoup that cost themselves with ticket sales etc.

    And this post is a typical example of the assumptions fans of this are coming up with, without any evidence.
    There is no guarantee that this will be a financial success, none at all.

    Oh the ironing.


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    #1256
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    because pure and simple, we do not have the infrastructure to deal with it.

    our rail network is crap, we dont have enough hotels, our stadiums are awful apart from about 4, we dont have enough corporate facilities.

    Except every single one of those things is in better shape than in NZ.


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    #1257
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭nc6000


    former total wrote: »
    We might even see Cardiff or Murrayfield get involved, I hope not though.

    I certainly hope not also. Games being played there as part of France 2007 was ridiculous and we of course had remarkable situation of the hosts playing their QF against New Zealand in Cardiff.


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    #1258
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    World Rugby run this event to make money, if they feel that they can make more money from an event hosted in Europe than in NZ then they will charge the host nation accordingly.


    World Rugby invest a lot of money into smaller countries too. There is a set fee to be paid by the host country because if they keep making up numbers it backfires.

    http://www.newstalk.com/Heres-the-breakdown-of-the-numbers-behind-Englands-Rugby-World-Cup

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5843621/World-Cup-absolutely-worth-price-tag


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    #1259
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    nc6000 wrote: »
    I certainly hope not also. Games being played there as part of France 2007 was ridiculous and we of course had remarkable situation of the hosts playing their QF against New Zealand in Cardiff.

    that has been ruled out. It is on the island of ireland only


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    #1260
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

    But I'd hazard guess that the outlay in Engalnd was a lot less than it will be in Ireland

    "£1.1 billion directly added to the UK GDP"

    Unless you're expecting us to spend a billion on upgrading 3 stadiums...


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    #1261
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,522 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Ok sorry for the incorrect terminology

    World Rugby run this event to make money, if they feel that they can make more money from an event hosted in Europe than in NZ then they will charge the host nation accordingly.

    They don't care if the host nation makes a profit or loss, as long as they are paid and their event is hosted.

    This is completely made up, and you're totally undermining any credibility you had by just Trumping this thread. It's a fixed fee, and you're wrong.


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