RWC Bid 2023/2027

tommy249 · 16-11-2016 12:17am

Adbrowne wrote: »

But Thomond Park is in Limerick and is a rugby venue. That is key.

Absolutely.... I'm not arguing that. My initial point was just that Limerick is such a big rugby city but because TP will be one of the smaller stadiums used it won't get any big games and some other traditionally non-rugby cities or towns will be getting bigger games! Just seems like Limerick getting the short straw!!!

Adbrowne · 16-11-2016 12:21am

tommy249 wrote: »

Absolutely.... I'm not arguing that. My initial point was just that Limerick is such a big rugby city but because TP will be one of the smaller stadiums used it won't get any big games and some other traditionally non-rugby cities or towns will be getting bigger games! Just seems like Limerick getting the short straw!!!

You dont know how the games will be allocated. I can't see Aus, NZ, SA, Wales, England, France all being based in Dublin. I think TP would get one game a week involving one of those sides.

ArmaniJeanss · 16-11-2016 12:35am

tommy249 wrote: »

Absolutely.... I'm not arguing that. My initial point was just that Limerick is such a big rugby city but because TP will be one of the smaller stadiums used it won't get any big games and some other traditionally non-rugby cities or towns will be getting bigger games! Just seems like Limerick getting the short straw!!!

In 2015 group stages of the 40 groups games there were just 8 Tier 1 v Tier 1 contests, so I don't think Limerick had much chance of getting any anyway. Logically the 3 biggest cities would host them, probably on a split like 5 Dublin, 2 Cork, 1 Belfast.
I'm sure some Tier 1 v strong Tier 2 games will be scheduled for TP though so you won't be losing out to the other provincial grounds.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2016 12:37am

You gotta say Casement park actually going ahead is pretty key when you look at the spread of top class stadia.

Bar_Prop · 16-11-2016 12:40am

It's looking like it might actually get done now. Just a question of keeping the locals sweet.

Blut2 · 16-11-2016 12:55am

The posts doubting the financial side of things for this are a bit daft. If the 2011 WC managed to be a financial success despite being on in a country with 2/3rds of the island of Ireland's population, which is located at the (with no offense intended to Kiwis) complete ends of the Earth both geographically and time-zone wise, then you can be sure a WC in Ireland will be rather more financially lucrative. Attendances from visiting fans, and global TV viewer numbers, will be way up.

Awesomeness · 16-11-2016 1:48am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yep
I don't like rugby, never did never will.

And I also think that it's popularity is way over hyped by it's fans and certain sections of the media.

I'm posting here just to give an alternative perspective.

I don't believe that this can be a success in Ireland given the costs to host it and the possible returns.

Ireland does not have a big rugby fan base thus we will rely on day trippers from the UK and France to make up the numbers, and as another poster pointed out day trippers add feck all to the economy.

Yes we will have visitors from the SH here for longer but they will not be huge in number.

It will be interesting to see what the plans to update the GAA grounds and other infrastructure projects will be, that will give a better idea of costs, and as I said before the bar will be very high after England and Japan, so terraces and temporary seats may not even cut it.

I am a big soccer and rugby fan and your idea that rugby does not have a big fan base is completely wrong.

Aviva is pretty much always full for irish rugby matches and that is rarely the case for the football team apart from the big games.

You also have more people going to see the 4 provincial sides that you do the 20 league of ireland teams.

The irish are event junkies, add in the travelling support and the novelty of a world cup and id expect attendancea to be very high

Buer · 16-11-2016 9:39am

Korat wrote: »

Fr. Tod puts forward one of the most awkward problems of bringing an event to Ireland.

There are huge cultural and societal barriers to be overcome before people like Fr. Todd could accept an international rugby tournament in Ireland.

There are barriers but they're not huge. There's a core group of GAA fans who fall into the bracket and there's a core group of football supporters who fall into that bracket.

Similarly, there's a core group of rugby supporters who turn their noses up at the former activities.

I would imagine the vast majority of supporters of any of the sports are fans of sport in general as are most of us on here and are eager to see such an event staged. Rugby might not have a huge number of hardcore fans but it has a huge number of fairweather fans.

My kids will be 8 when the RWC rolls around. I won't be telling their mother but I will absolutely be packing up the car, calling their teachers and telling them they've a stomach bug and doing a few days around the country going to matches. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity and I believe most people understand that and will be hugely on board with it.

As BOD said, we will never get to host an Olympics. We will never get to host a FIFA World Cup or a European Championships. This is it for us. This is the biggest possible sporting event we will ever be able to host. It's disappointing that there will be an element of schaudenfreude from some if we're unsuccessful.

VinLieger · 16-11-2016 9:39am

Awesomeness wrote: »

I am a big soccer and rugby fan and your idea that rugby does not have a big fan base is completely wrong.

Aviva is pretty much always full for irish rugby matches and that is rarely the case for the football team apart from the big games.

You also have more people going to see the 4 provincial sides that you do the 20 league of ireland teams.

The irish are event junkies, add in the travelling support and the novelty of a world cup and id expect attendancea to be very high

Football fans who refuse to even give rugby a chance like that poster identifies as are gonna have a big problem with this as a whole. I know several people who pig headedly refuse to even support the irish rugby side because of their cave man like attitude to the sport which is just sad and petty. So its easy to understand how and why these kind of people would be so purposefully ignorant and negative about the event as a whole.

They will forever have a chip on their shoulder that its possible for another sport other than their own to hold a world cup event of a scale like this in Ireland but not one for football. Ironically its due to how popular football is on a global scale in that we simply couldnt facilitate it so really their problem is their sport is "too popular".

Its also down to the old ignorant stereotype of "Rugby is just for bleedin poshos who want to grab each others bums".......

That is until the event started then they would be out enjoying themselves like the rest of the country and bandwagoning all over the place.

ThisRegard · 16-11-2016 9:41am

thomond2006 wrote: »

They aren't going to move a final to Thurles. It's a non-runner. Have you ever been to Semple? It isn't fit to be a replacement venue.

2 local clowns, Alan Kelly and Jackie Cahil, aren't happy that Semple wasn't picked and are actually going to waste government time by raising it in the dail ffs.

former total · 16-11-2016 9:44am

Bar_Prop wrote: »

It's looking like it might actually get done now. Just a question of keeping the locals sweet.

Yeah, this is the next problem.

The cries of "we can't do this" will be gradually replaced by "what's in it for me?"

ThisRegard · 16-11-2016 10:19am

The Jackie gombeen is going to be on Today FM now.

edit: he claims the Horse and Jockey is a local hotel to the stadium there.

Nift · 16-11-2016 10:27am

Korat wrote: »

Fr. Tod puts forward one of the most awkward problems of bringing an event to Ireland.

There are huge cultural and societal barriers to be overcome before people like Fr. Todd could accept an international rugby tournament in Ireland.

Fr Tod Umptious...and his ilk who hate rugby I feel sorry for them and their negativity. If the FAI had some proper people, they could have matched the IRFU..instead they created a system that ships our youth out by the boatload and leads them mostly to rack and ruin. Supporting clubs in other countries is so weird. I'm a Liverpol "fan" and i dont know why i am. People choose to watch Man U over Dundalk why is that?

It doesn't make any sense. People who don't support a major tournament in this country are close to treasonous. You don't have to go to the game but people have to see the bigger picture. Its like the nimbys who block children's hospitals cause "it will block out the sun"...its total b.s.. We have a full blown rental crisis cause people blocked higher buildings.

People who are complete zealots for one sport over another are just sad sacks. And there will be more worms coming out of the woodwork if we win.

By the way its called a test "test of strength and competency" mainly due to the fact of there being very few competing nations. Rugby is a very hard game to play...trust me and thats its weakness...you can roll up a bunch of socks or sellotape wrapping together and you have a football. Its popularity and beauty is in its simplicity. Rugby's is in its complexity and fearless players.

Rugby is f**king beautiful sport. SO is any top level sport because people have chosen and succeeded in testing themselves to the highest level of their abilities and beaten other individuals to win that right. SO naysayers like you won't defeat what sport is about...a celebration of everything great in life...fear, pain, joy, sadness, friendship. And what better way than to showcase it with a World Cup. Get behind it.

So those who don't should go back and sit on their barstools and rant away to the wind.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2016 10:30am

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Jackie gombeen is going to be on Today FM now.

edit: he claims the Horse and Jockey is a local hotel to the stadium there.

Does it have about 5,000 rooms?

These people really shouldn't be given the time of day. It's abundantly clear that Semple is just not appropriate.

thomond2006 · 16-11-2016 10:35am

Semple may host big crowds but almost all of them will come to Thurles on a day trip, either by car, bus or train. I enjoy a Thurles match as the small town gets taken over but there's no way it's feasible to host a World Cup game.

Blind parish pump politics from Cahill and Kelly. The bid team must look at the big picture, these TDs can't and/or won't.

However they may have a point if they raise Castlebar vs. Thurles. I don't know McHale Park but would the surrounds (Westport etc.) have enough hotel rooms? At least Thurles has a fast and frequent rail service to Dublin, I've used it a few times to go to Semple. Castlebar to Heuston is 3 hours, Thurles to Heuston 1h15 to 1h30.

nc6000 · 16-11-2016 10:45am

I guess Castlebar was included so the venues are spread more evenly across the country.

Edit : Just reading the article about this in the Independent and it says the 12 venues announced yesterday was a "long-list" and will be reduced to between 8 and 10 if successful with Pearse Stadium in Galway likely to be selected ahead of Castlebar.

Buer · 16-11-2016 10:51am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Semple may host big crowds but almost all of them will come to Thurles on a day trip, either by car, bus or train. I enjoy a Thurles match as the small town gets taken over but there's no way it's feasible to host a World Cup game.

Blind parish pump politics from Cahill and Kelly. The bid team must look at the big picture, these TDs can't and/or won't.

However they may have a point if they raise Castlebar vs. Thurles. I don't know McHale Park but would the surrounds (Westport etc.) have enough hotel rooms? At least Thurles has a fast and frequent rail service to Dublin, I've used it a few times to go to Semple. Castlebar to Heuston is 3 hours, Thurles to Heuston 1h15 to 1h30.

They'd have more hotel rooms nearby than Thurles. Westport has a few large hotels and Castlebar has a few also.

Breaffy House, Knockranny, Castlecourt, The Royal, Hotel Westport....all large hotels off the top of my head. Also more B&Bs than you can shake a stick at. Certainly more than Thurles has in a 15-20km radius. Several other large hotels not much further too within a 30 minute drive of the stadium.

It also has decent enough travel links (N5 goes directly outside MacHale Park, Knock Airport is 30mins away and has decent train and bus service). Due to the size of the stadium, it's probably one of the first that should go (several other similar sized stadiums in areas with larger populations) but it's not surprising to see it on the list ahead of Thurles.

Mayo has a booming tourist trade and would definitely tick the box in terms of advertising Ireland as a destination. Castlebar isn't up to much but you'd be in Connemara, Westport, Wild Atlantic Way, the Greenway and Achill all within an hour.

connemara man · 16-11-2016 11:27am

This might be an interesting read for anyone that way inclined

http://www.sportseconomics.org/sports-economics/irelands-rugby-world-cup-bid-a-summary-of-previous-posts

ThisRegard · 16-11-2016 11:29am

Dick Spring on Sean O'Rourke at the moment, no doubt he'll be asked about Semple.

Buer · 16-11-2016 11:52am

ThisRegard wrote: »

Dick Spring on Sean O'Rourke at the moment, no doubt he'll be asked about Semple.

Was he?

Anything interesting said?

Hulk Hands · 16-11-2016 11:53am

Majority of seasoned match travellers will say that its the attractiveness and atmosphere of the host city thats the most important factor in it being a success for fans. Stadium guides are nice to look at in the run up, but in the end it doesnt matter as long as you can get to a stadium ok and see the match unobstructed. Our stadium situation is fine. The hope would be a big effort would be put into transport links.

But what we have going for us is a great range of lovely touristic host cities, with the exception of maybe Derry and Castlebar. The generally well behaved Rugby crowds will be given free reign to enjoy themselves, the locals will be hospitable (probably the life of the party in some cases) and compared to other countries, fan safety isnt an issue here whatsoever. I can see any visiting fan having a tremendous experience in Ireland

Nift · 16-11-2016 12:05pm

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Majority of seasoned match travellers will say that its the attractiveness and atmosphere of the host city thats the most important factor in it being a success for fans. Stadium guides are nice to look at in the run up, but in the end it doesnt matter as long as you can get to a stadium ok and see the match unobstructed. Our stadium situation is fine. The hope would be a big effort would be put into transport links.

But what we have going for us is a great range of lovely touristic host cities, with the exception of maybe Derry and Castlebar. The generally well behaved Rugby crowds will be given free reign to enjoy themselves, the locals will be hospitable (probably the life of the party in some cases) and compared to other countries, fan safety isnt an issue here whatsoever. I can see any visiting fan having a tremendous experience in Ireland

Its hardly fine...there needs to be alot of work done. Have you any idea of the corporate side of it or all the other facilities needed.

ThisRegard · 16-11-2016 12:10pm

Buer wrote: »

Was he?

Anything interesting said?

As usual when a piece I want to hear comes on I get distract by work, so I only half heard it. I did tune in when Semple was mentioned, he was asked about it and simply stated that it was Rugby World that done the evaluation and shortlist, I think he said one of the big problems they had was transport around there. He was asked will they look into it again and the short answer was no. When the time comes to decide on what stadiums to actually use, the decision will also lay solely with Rugby World.

Fr Tod Umptious · 16-11-2016 12:36pm

Adbrowne wrote: »

1. The cost to hosting it isnt in the same league as football world cup/euro's or the olympics. Most of the stadiums are pretty much ready and a few of the others proposed are being upgraded regardless of the RWC. So we are down to 3-4 stadiums which will have work done but not a 3 tier corporate friendly stands costing hundreds of millions.

2. Very few welsh/scot/english/italian/french fans day trip for the 6n. Dublin city centre is always awash with them for 2-3 nights. Yes there is 4-5-6-7 games but it is a once every 8 year event in this part of the world. Even then day trippers will use taxi's, buses, trains & buying food, drink, merchandise.

3. TV revenue will be big because it is in Europe with the most favourable time slots covering the biggest TV markets available unlike say NZ which had games at 3/4/5/6am [only a few 3am ones]

4. Have a look at the 2011 event and the stadiums used. There is nothing there to suggest the stadiums in our bid arent capable.

1. At least 3 GAA grounds will need upgrades that they currently don’t need or are not planned. It’s rare that we get value for money in this country for infrastructural projects, so I’ll hold my breath on the idea of these upgrades being minor or “cheap”.
Already local politician are complaining about their town not being on the list of locations, you can be full sure the ones who’s are on the list will spare no expense in making sure they are ready.
I hear Dick Spring talking about a “Rolls-Royce” bid, neither Celtic Park nor Castlebar are “Rolls-Royce”.

2. For the 6N the Welsh/Scots etc only come over once every 2 years, in a world cup folks will be coming over 4 times in a month, now I know it won’t be the same people all the time but some will be, so I’d expect shorter, cheaper stays.

3. Surely the TV revenue will be priced into the money that has to be paid to RWC to host the event, i.e if the TV revenue is going to be greater for Europe than NZ then the RWC will charge a bigger fee for a WC in Europe than in NZ

4. I don’t think NZ is as good a comparison for Ireland as people want it to be. NZ got away with smaller stadiums because it was NZ, a small but very enthusiastic rugby country. Ireland has the problem of being less rugby enthusiastic and having a nearby bidding rival in France that can beat up on infrastructure

former total · 16-11-2016 12:50pm

I think people (well, one person) is over-estimating the cost of upgrading stadia.

The key grounds are:
Croke Park - done
Aviva - done
Thomond - done
Ravenhill - done
Casement Park - being rebuilt regardless of RWC
Pairc Ui Chaoimh - being rebuilt regardless of RWC
RDS - being upgraded regardless of RWC
Fitzgerald Stadium - being upgraded regardless of RWC

So that only leaves Celtic Park, McHale Park and Nowlan Park. Two of those won't even host any games but even if they do, they'll host the minor matches that simply don't need huge corporate facilities or enormous capacity. If they're good enough for a county final, they'll be OK for Romania vs Namibia.

TV revenue is completely irrelevant because every penny of it goes to World Rugby. It makes no odds to the bid whatsoever.

There is no reason this bid can't be a success and no reason why we can't hold the tournament here. Anyone who can't see that, well the problem is with them.

16-11-2016 12:54pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

1. At least 3 GAA grounds will need upgrades that they currently don’t need or are not planned. It’s rare that we get value for money in this country for infrastructural projects, so I’ll hold my breath on the idea of these upgrades being minor or “cheap”.
Already local politician are complaining about their town not being on the list of locations, you can be full sure the ones who’s are on the list will spare no expense in making sure they are ready.
I hear Dick Spring talking about a “Rolls-Royce” bid, neither Celtic Park nor Castlebar are “Rolls-Royce”.

Can you provide evidence that with specific regards to upgrading sports facilities Ireland has a track record of not getting value for money?

Why can't these facilities improve with six years lead in time?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

2. For the 6N the Welsh/Scots etc only come over once every 2 years, in a world cup folks will be coming over 4 times in a month, now I know it won’t be the same people all the time but some will be, so I’d expect shorter, cheaper stays.

Can you provide evidence that this is the case please? Is this what happened with Irish and French fans travelling to England during the last world cup and can you back this up with anything that isn't anecdotal?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

3. Surely the TV revenue will be priced into the money that has to be paid to RWC to host the event, i.e if the TV revenue is going to be greater for Europe than NZ then the RWC will charge a bigger fee for a WC in Europe than in NZ

Can you provide a link to where this has been stated? This is a large claim, can you show us the maths that indicate we will be worse off than other WC hosts?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

4. I don’t think NZ is as good a comparison for Ireland as people want it to be. NZ got away with smaller stadiums because it was NZ, a small but very enthusiastic rugby country. Ireland has the problem of being less rugby enthusiastic and having a nearby bidding rival in France that can beat up on infrastructure

Can you explain this argument as it makes no sense. France having a bid won't matter if we actually win. NZ is an isolated country unlike Ireland. Can you provide any evidence to suggest that attendance will be lower in Ireland?

You keep making posts based on your own ideas and you've admitted to being influenced by an irrational dislike of the sport. Lets see you back up some of these claims you are making with evidence and not bias.

VinLieger · 16-11-2016 12:55pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

2. For the 6N the Welsh/Scots etc only come over once every 2 years, in a world cup folks will be coming over 4 times in a month, now I know it won’t be the same people all the time but some will be, so I’d expect shorter, cheaper stays.

This like the football Euros and World cups is a special event only held 4 years so fans go all out and travel and stay for weeks at a time. If anything its actually more unique as rugby fans don't have european or other regional championships in between world cups.
Your ignoring the big hitters like NZ, SA and Aus who's fans will travel for weeks at a time due to the expectations of how far they will make it in the tournament, during those weeks there's alot of downtime where they will travel for sightseeing and go to watch other matches around the country.
This will be the same of many countries even closer to home like Scots, Welsh, England, France and Italy, people will take weeks at a time to fit 2-3 of their own teams matches in not to mention other teams matches they can get tickets for that also fit into their window of time here.
Thats how it worked in NZ, thats how it worked in England, its how it will work in Japan in 3 years and there's no reason to think it will be any different if we win the bid for 2023

former total · 16-11-2016 12:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you provide a link to where this has been stated? This is a large claim, can you show us the maths that indicate we will be worse off than other WC hosts?

I know Fr Tod is getting it from all angles, but this just shows he doesn't understand the process.

Ireland won't get a penny of TV money, nor did England or NZ. It all goes directly to World Rugby, as does all the commercial income.

16-11-2016 12:59pm

former total wrote: »

I know Fr Tod is getting it from all angles, but this just shows he doesn't understand the process.

Ireland won't get a penny of TV money, nor did England or NZ. It all goes directly to World Rugby, as does all the commercial income.

I wasn't aware of that either but then again I'm not making claims I can't in any way back up.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2016 1:02pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

4. I don’t think NZ is as good a comparison for Ireland as people want it to be. NZ got away with smaller stadiums because it was NZ, a small but very enthusiastic rugby country. Ireland has the problem of being less rugby enthusiastic and having a nearby bidding rival in France that can beat up on infrastructure

As mentioned, our bid is not based on providing the best infrastructure and obviously we would lose every time on that basis.

Ireland also has the benefit of not being one of the most difficult countries in the world to get to for the normal rugby following population.

RWC Bid 2023/2027

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