JC assessment task December

Jamfa · 14-11-2016 05:32PM

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

You are right about directive not being explicit enough on this issue. Who do they present the 4 to ? My bold text was simply to give clarity not to admonish anybody?

You really need to read the various guidelines for the CBA & AT as the answers to your questions are in them.

Mardy Bum · 14-11-2016 06:01PM

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

implausible wrote: »

In fairness, the directive doesn't clearly state that.

They are meant to present four pieces and two will be assessed from that four.

You are right about directive not being explicit enough on this issue. Who do they present the 4 to ? My bold text was simply to give clarity not to admonish anybody?

ASTI leaders did not clarify anything about the AT about a month ago when asked about it at regional meeting.
The AT is not marked by teachers. We have to follow the syllabus by law which involves redrafting work. I'm at a loss as to why teachers think it can't be done. The directive does not state it can't be done as the CBA is different to the AT.

judeboy101 · 14-11-2016 06:37PM

implausible wrote: »

No, you don't need posts. The paperwork is minimal - the teacher fills in one sheet per student to decide how to assess the CBA, the student fills in one reflection sheet and the teacher gathers them together. At the SLAR, you make a list of pieces of work to be discussed and whoever is coordinating the SLAR fills in a one page report on the meeting. That's two sheets per teacher per CBA. The revised JC spec ensured that the paperwork was minimal.

We have 14 hours this year of paid sub cover per English teacher to meet to sort out what we're doing and from 2017 (I think) every teacher involved in JC gets a 40 minute timetable reduction (unheard of concession from the dept).

Replacing 40mins of teaching with 40 mins of paperwork. As a teacher something is just wrong with that.

TheDriver · 14-11-2016 06:48PM

Correct, every teacher (in theory of JC) gets 40 mins less from Sept 2017 so 21 hrs 20mins

implausible · 14-11-2016 06:57PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

Replacing 40mins of teaching with 40 mins of paperwork. As a teacher something is just wrong with that.

Where did I say it was 40 minutes of paperwork? For the Oral CBA you fill in the sheet as the student is presenting. You then select the recordings you want to share at the SLAR. The SLAR meeting took place during house exams.

Setting, marking and reporting a second year exam is far more onerous.

I can see where teachers are coming from if they haven't been through the process. Initially, my fears about the JC were that there would be mountains of paperwork, but the revised JC, the fact that it isn't state certified, the information we got at inservice and having been through the process all show that this is no longer an issue.

Edit: if teachers weren't given the reduction, there would be wails of "we haven't got time for this."

Benicetomonty · 14-11-2016 07:19PM

Re: the AT, I dont really understand why parents of students in ASTI schools are being threatened with the loss of 10% if we are actually expected to do it. My understanding is it's based on completion of 2nd CBA and ASTI members arent doing that so I have no intention of giving it any more thought until the union says otherwise.

I might also add that with Xmas exams imminent, Id expect the travesty that are those sample papers to come to the fore. Awful questions with no marking scheme in sight and without even the full compliment of sections (no film studies section for example) to peruse... I certainly hope the continuing opposition to the CBAs doesnt detract from just how shockingly bad the exam itself is squaring up to be.

man_no_plan · 14-11-2016 07:33PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

Replacing 40mins of teaching with 40 mins of paperwork. As a teacher something is just wrong with that.

Yea but this is kind of lose lose.

Do a bit of admin as well as teaching.
No.

Okay do a bit of admin and have some time in recognition of the extra work involved in giving feedback.

I'm not happy about that either

What do you suggest?

Our system has been working well for 20 years let's leave it alone.

cupcake queen · 14-11-2016 08:08PM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Re: the AT, I dont really understand why parents of students in ASTI schools are being threatened with the loss of 10% if we are actually expected to do it. My understanding is it's based on completion of 2nd CBA and ASTI members arent doing that so I have no intention of giving it any more thought until the union says otherwise.

I might also add that with Xmas exams imminent, Id expect the travesty that are those sample papers to come to the fore. Awful questions with no marking scheme in sight and without even the full compliment of sections (no film studies section for example) to peruse... I certainly hope the continuing opposition to the CBAs doesnt detract from just how shockingly bad the exam itself is squaring up to be.

I have just started using the papers with my (high ability) third years and am surprised by their reaction. They dont like filling in answers in the spaces provided as they find it too restrictive (which it is, but I didn't think they would see it that way). One student even said they had included spaces for the answers so that it would seem less intimidating to students. He is presumably correct in this which is so disheartening as surely higher level English should be a little challenging. They were not impressed and their comments were totally spontaneous. They would not have had any experience of the old papers either, they just recognise them for what they are.

MrJones1973 · 14-11-2016 08:20PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI leaders did not clarify anything about the AT about a month ago when asked about it at regional meeting.
The AT is not marked by teachers. We have to follow the syllabus by law which involves redrafting work. I'm at a loss as to why teachers think it can't be done. The directive does not state it can't be done as the CBA is different to the AT.

Head office confirmed it today. Ring them yourselves. I give up !

thefasteriwalk · 14-11-2016 08:49PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI leaders did not clarify anything about the AT about a month ago when asked about it at regional meeting.
The AT is not marked by teachers. We have to follow the syllabus by law which involves redrafting work. I'm at a loss as to why teachers think it can't be done. The directive does not state it can't be done as the CBA is different to the AT.

The AT (collection of texts) is corrected by teachers and rounded off with a SLAR meeting.

Mardy Bum · 14-11-2016 09:05PM

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI leaders did not clarify anything about the AT about a month ago when asked about it at regional meeting.
The AT is not marked by teachers. We have to follow the syllabus by law which involves redrafting work. I'm at a loss as to why teachers think it can't be done. The directive does not state it can't be done as the CBA is different to the AT.

The AT (collection of texts) is corrected by teachers and rounded off with a SLAR meeting.

AT goes to SEC. Teachers do not correct it. Well Mswhite fair enough- they hadn't a month ago.

thefasteriwalk · 14-11-2016 09:17PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

AT goes to SEC. Teachers do not correct it. Well Mswhite fair enough- they hadn't a month ago.

The Collection of Texts is corrected by teachers just as the Oral Assessment was. The results will be recorded on the school assessment sheet that the students will receive along with state results.

The booklet from the CBA2 will be sent to the SEC. 10%.

implausible · 14-11-2016 09:31PM

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

The Collection of Texts is corrected by teachers just as the Oral Assessment was. The results will be recorded on the school assessment sheet that the students will receive along with state results.

The booklet from the CBA2 will be sent to the SEC. 10%.

You need to use the terms correctly or risk creating more confusion. CBA1 (oral assessment) and CBA2 (collection of texts) are assessed by the teacher in class using the four descriptors.

The Assessment Task is carried out in school, using a booklet sent by the SEC and marked by the SEC (at the same time as the final exam.) The AT will include reflection on CBA2 and the students will have the two pieces chosen for assessment in CBA2 in front of them, but those pieces will not be sent away.

The SLAR is carried out at the end of CBA2, nothing to do with the AT.

thefasteriwalk · 14-11-2016 09:35PM

implausible wrote: »

You need to use the terms correctly or risk creating more confusion. CBA1 (oral assessment) and CBA2 (collection of texts) are assessed by the teacher in class using the four descriptors.

The Assessment Task is carried out in school, using a booklet sent by the SEC and marked by the SEC (at the same time as the final exam.) The AT will include reflection on CBA2 and the students will have the two pieces chosen for assessment in CBA2 in front of them, but those pieces will not be sent away.

The SLAR is carried out at the end of CBA2, nothing to do with the AT.

Yes, I know they won't be sent away - as I've already said, they're corrected by teachers using the same criteria as the Oral Assessment. Deadline Dec. 2nd.

implausible · 14-11-2016 09:36PM

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Head office confirmed it today. Ring them yourselves. I give up !

They would need to get their asses in gear though and get that information out to the members. You can't blame people for not being aware of information that isn't publicly available.

This is what the ASTI website has to say about CBA2:

Since September 2015, teachers of English have been enabling students to assemble their Collection of Texts (Portfolio). The creation of such work by the student is an intrinsic part of the English specification. Work in this regard is not prohibited by the directive. However, the ASTI directive does prohibit members from engaging in Classroom Based Assessments (CBAs) for the purposes of the Junior Cycle Profile of Achievement.

Stewie Griffin · 14-11-2016 10:14PM

Ok, ok. I'm not getting the clarity I thought I would here.

Some people seem to be conflating the Collection of Texts (CBA2) and the Assessment Task. My understanding was that the CoT (CBA2) are not to be assessed by ASTI teachers, but all students are to complete the AT. This AT booklet is retained by school and sent to SEC with final exam in June (similar to CSPE).

Mr. White, are you saying that your call to ASTI Head Office today confirmed that ASTI teachers are not to cooperate with the AT, due to be completed during the w/b 5-9 December?

Honest to God, I'm not able to keep up.

implausible · 14-11-2016 11:50PM

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Yes, I know they won't be sent away - as I've already said, they're corrected by teachers using the same criteria as the Oral Assessment. Deadline Dec. 2nd.

I was just trying to be clear. In your previous post you said:

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

The booklet from the CBA2 will be sent to the SEC. 10%.

which could be interpreted as the collection of texts (CBA2) being sent away. It's the Assessment Task that is sent to the SEC.

MrJones1973 · 15-11-2016 10:39AM

Im writing to Standing committee to ask them to clarify this now. Im also contacting an SC member.
I will have an answer by nightfall

MrJones1973 · 16-11-2016 10:33AM

Have heard back from one SC member who says it falls under directive but I have a letter into SC which hopefully should be read Thursday morning and that will be final word.

Mardy Bum · 16-11-2016 05:34PM

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Have heard back from one SC member who says it falls under directive but I have a letter into SC which hopefully should be read Thursday morning and that will be final word.

How exactly do teachers stop it if the school management runs it themselves?

MrJones1973 · 17-11-2016 10:04AM

ItJust got an email from general secretary. Asti members are to do nothing associated with the AT task. As for management running it I can't comment but members should not assist The process .

Stewie Griffin · 17-11-2016 10:57AM

Thanks for that. I presume that this clarity will be made public by SC after today.

Like I said, I was under the impression that the AT booklet wasn't a Classroom Based Assessment and therefore wasn't under the terms of the directive. I suspect there are more like me. The public clarification of this would be most welcome.

siulach · 22-11-2016 12:52AM

Have just been re-examining the following site:

http://www.curriculumonline.ie/Junior-cycle/Junior-Cycle-Subjects/English-(1)/Assessment-and-reporting/Assessment-Task

I notice that the SEC state that the AT will 'vary from year to year': Varying from year to year, the Assessment Task will be devised from some or all of the following elements:
A short stimulus in written, audio, audio-visual or multi-modal format to prepare for the written task
A written task that tests the students in one or more of:
their ability to outline and/or discuss their experience of compiling The Collection of the Student’s Texts
their understanding and evaluation of that experience
their capacity to demonstrate and reflect on the skills they have developed.

I know I'm clutching at straws here, but does anybody know exactly when we will be told whether this years task will involve stimulus material or not? Are we expected to wait until the day of the Assessment Task and see what we are presented with?

ASTI state we are not to engage with AT, but surely we owe it to the students to be able to tell them what format they can expect, and at the moment detail is sadly lacking.

Jamfa · 22-11-2016 01:23AM

siulach wrote: »

Have just been re-examining the following site:

http://www.curriculumonline.ie/Junior-cycle/Junior-Cycle-Subjects/English-(1)/Assessment-and-reporting/Assessment-Task

I notice that the SEC state that the AT will 'vary from year to year': Varying from year to year, the Assessment Task will be devised from some or all of the following elements:
A short stimulus in written, audio, audio-visual or multi-modal format to prepare for the written task
A written task that tests the students in one or more of:
their ability to outline and/or discuss their experience of compiling The Collection of the Student’s Texts
their understanding and evaluation of that experience
their capacity to demonstrate and reflect on the skills they have developed.

I know I'm clutching at straws here, but does anybody know exactly when we will be told whether this years task will involve stimulus material or not? Are we expected to wait until the day of the Assessment Task and see what we are presented with?

ASTI state we are not to engage with AT, but surely we owe it to the students to be able to tell them what format they can expect, and at the moment detail is sadly lacking.

It's really clear in the Guidelines: http://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/c318aad0-8734-4679-b4a1-31ef416c6e94/Assessment-Task-example-and-guidelines.pdf
They don't answer questions about the stimulus so it isn't that important. The format of the AT is straightforward and well documented in the Guidelines.
Your students won't be sitting the AT as you're in the ASTI so it won't matter to them.

siulach · 22-11-2016 10:58PM

Jamfa wrote: »

It's really clear in the Guidelines: http://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/c318aad0-8734-4679-b4a1-31ef416c6e94/Assessment-Task-example-and-guidelines.pdf
They don't answer questions about the stimulus so it isn't that important. The format of the AT is straightforward and well documented in the Guidelines.
Your students won't be sitting the AT as you're in the ASTI so it won't matter to them.

Thanks for your reply Jamfa. I'm glad at least that they don't have to answer questions in their pro-forma booklet about the stimulus. I had suspected as such, but I couldn't find anything explicit to confirm same on any of the documentation available online.

I'm not so sure about your statement that my students won't be doing the AT. Management in my school are investigating the possibility of allowing students to carry out the AT with the aid of external supervisors. In this way, no union directives will be contravened as teachers will not be involved in supervising the exam. However, as you can appreciate, the selection of stimulus material could present a conflict with union directives, if (as I suspect) the English teacher is responsible for the selection of a stimulus. Unless alone the NCCA specify a stimulus that is to be used for students of ASTI teachers who are sitting the AT. One wouldn't hold one's breath, given that the guidelines and information has remained more or less static since the summer.

It's baffling that we haven't been given any further instructions other than 'do not engage with AT'. Is it sufficient to merely refuse to supervise this exam, or are we being told to behave as though it doesn't exist at all?!

Jamfa · 23-11-2016 12:28AM

According to the NCCA the students have to have completed the CBA if they are to do the AT. So unless your management can get people in to assess the Collection of Texts CBA and then go through them with your class and prepare them for the AT then I can't see how it will happen.

siulach · 23-11-2016 07:00PM

Jamfa wrote: »

According to the NCCA the students have to have completed the CBA if they are to do the AT. So unless your management can get people in to assess the Collection of Texts CBA and then go through them with your class and prepare them for the AT then I can't see how it will happen.

In our school, we did the Collection of Texts as part of mainstream class activity, so we set and marked a number of creative writing tasks as we always would have done, but refrained from awarding the descriptors as per the ASTI directive reproduced below:
The ASTI Directive does not prohibit teachers from facilitating students in creating a Collection of Texts as part of mainstream classroom activity. Rather, it prohibits the awarding of the descriptors - Exceptional, Above Expectations, In-line with Expectations, Yet to meet Expectations - to students’ texts as part of Classroom Based Assessment 2 and the recording and reporting of such descriptors in the Junior Cycle Profile of Achievement.

So, technically, they have an assessment equivalent to CBA2 done, it's just that we treated it as a mainstream class activity. The students could, therefore, sit the AT if it is overseen by management, in our case anyhow. I'd say we would have to request that management select a stimulus material if they do continue with AT.

Good to know at least that there isn't likely to be a question on the stimulus material on the AT, although to be honest, I wish the department had made that clearer in what they have put online.

Jamfa · 23-11-2016 07:30PM

But to complete CBA2 is to award the Descriptors following the SLAR meeting and have them as part of the JCPA which you won't be doing. I think it's worth challenging the DES but I suspect they'll make schools declare that they have fully completed and reported the CBA before the school can administer the AT. Have you had your students select the two texts for assessment and do you plan to assess them?

siulach · 23-11-2016 08:00PM

I guess it all depends on whether the DES will want to play hard ball and try to force the entire package of CBA1, CBA2 through, along with pushing through the AT. However, the deadline for the Oral Assessment has long passed and there hasn't been a word from any official channels to us about that. I'd say the school based assessment part of the JCPA is unlikely to go ahead this year, or at least, is unlikely to be compulsory. I might be being completely naïve here, but I reckon that the DES will regard it as a partial victory if they get the ATs completed. I doubt they will be asking too many questions on the whys and wherefores once the 10% booklet finds its way to the SEC by June.

I told my students to select two pieces to redraft, and explained to them that these would be for use in the event of the AT going ahead, but I haven't corrected the redrafts at all. To be honest, I was hoping that by this stage of the year, we would have a better idea of where we were going. I've being trying to give the students the best chance of having the whole syllabus done whilst keeping in line with union directives, but it's coming to a crucial time now where the grey area between the union directives and the expectations of the SEC are going to cause headaches.

Jamfa, do you mind me asking, what will happen in your school? I'd love to have some idea of what's happening in other places.

chases0102 · 25-11-2016 12:26AM

Hi folks, just a quick question - are 3rd year English students (non ASTI) doing the CBA2, the Assessment Task and Christmas House exams this year?

JC assessment task December

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