El Presidente Trump

Boggy Turf · 11-11-2016 11:59AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the media reaction since he won has been a disgrace - instead of trying to promote Unity and moving on, all they are doing is showing the same 3 or 4 short clips over and over again, just to incite more hatred and division, which is what they are accusing Trump of doing.

Agreed. It has been an over-reaction across the board.

jmayo · 11-11-2016 12:00PM

Actually was looking at two winning candidates and just thought of some positives.

The Clare Champion can run with this headline ...

Clare Hotelier Wins White House.

Then people should not forget Mike Pence's granddaddy, on his mothers side, emigrated from Sligo.
He is one of the Cawleys.
Hell I bet I know some of his relatives.

The current lad had Mayo relatives, but they were diluted with some feckers from Louth.

Oh and Pence's maternal grandmothers parents were, get this, from Doonbeg in Clare.

And where is Trump's hotel/golf course again ?

Hasn't Trump just set up one of the local lads for a plum job.
How more Irish could you get.

jimgoose · 11-11-2016 12:01PM

jmayo wrote: »

...Hasn't Trump just set up one of the local lads for a plum job.
How more Irish could you get.

Sure he's only in the door five minutes and he's practically a native, begob! :pac:

Permabear · 11-11-2016 12:03PM

This post has been deleted.

Christy42 · 11-11-2016 12:06PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Trump is in a difficult place now as regards his pre election topics.

if he doesnt build his wall, his critics will lash him.
if he builds the wall, his critics will lash him and so on.

these people are so bitter and so jealous of the fact he won, they will just do everything in their power now to find fault from now on.

the media reaction since he won has been a disgrace - instead of trying to promote Unity and moving on, all they are doing is showing the same 3 or 4 short clips over and over again, just to incite more hatred and division, which is what they are accusing Trump of doing.

What do you expect. He got elected off of promises that they knew where unworkable and would work out terrible. If he doesn't build it he is going back on his word. If he does it will be a disaster. Maybe he should have made workable policies before getting elected and he might have had a way out! He dug this hole, he can get himself out.

gandalf · 11-11-2016 12:07PM

Widdershins wrote: »

My advice was to familiarise yourself with the facts of those peoples situation instead of writing them off. All you can say to that is ''upskill''

Look the fact that matters is the job pool these people have if they stay at their base education and skills level is shrinking rapidly and not only in the manufacturing side of things but also the service side of things. We can all empathise and stand around singing Kumbaya but it doesn't take away from the cold hard fact that the vast majority of these people are unemployable in the modern world and as time goes by they become even more unemployable.

I understand their plight, I feel sorry for them but in reality the only people that can help them is themselves. I sincerely doubt Trump and the Republicans will provide them with the training and then jobs they need (for balance I doubt the Democrats and Hillary would have delivered for them either).

What I and others are saying whilst very harsh is the reality for them and us in the coming future.

jmayo · 11-11-2016 12:08PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Ehh she was political appointee to various committees in Arkansas.

She had major part to play in election of her husband to various offices throughout his career.

She was first first lady to have office in West Wing showing how involved she was in the Clinton administration.
She was considered the most involved first lady outside of Eleanor Roosevelt.

She had even worked on election campaigns as far back as 60s.

You don't have to be elected politician to be a political insider.

Would you say that the likes of Alastair Campbell was not a political insider ?

_Jamie_ · 11-11-2016 12:09PM

20Cent wrote: »

Also why do you want to bring it up in a thread about the US?
Derail it perhaps.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Widdershins · 11-11-2016 12:11PM

gandalf wrote: »

Look the fact that matters is the job pool these people have if they stay at their base education and skills level is shrinking rapidly and not only in the manufacturing side of things but also the service side of things. We can all empathise and stand around singing Kumbaya but it doesn't take away from the cold hard fact that the vast majority of these people are unemployable in the modern world and as time goes by they become even more unemployable.

I understand their plight, I feel sorry for them but in reality the only people that can help them is themselves. I sincerely doubt Trump and the Republicans will provide them with the training and then jobs they need (for balance I doubt the Democrats and Hillary would have delivered for them either).

What I and others are saying whilst very harsh is the reality for them and us in the coming future.

They know Hillary wouldn't deliver. We *doubt* Trump will. Some hope is better than none. It remains to be seen.

Pherekydes · 11-11-2016 12:13PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

She didn't lose because she's a woman. She lost because she is seen as untrustworthy and just more of the same.

No, she lost because of the system. The same system that Trump said was rigged in her favour.

Jelle1880 · 11-11-2016 12:14PM

rafatoni wrote: »

You sound hysterical. Are you ok?

How will their eduaction have an impact on other countries? Genuinely interested.

Are you saying Trump in power will cause issues for Harvard and MIT?

You seem to be trying very hard to derail this thread with nonsense about how people in Ireland shouldn't care, or how it won't affect us.

Jelle1880 · 11-11-2016 12:14PM

rafatoni wrote: »

You sound hysterical. Are you ok?

How will their eduaction have an impact on other countries? Genuinely interested.

Are you saying Trump in power will cause issues for Harvard and MIT?

You seem to be trying very hard to derail this thread with nonsense about how people in Ireland shouldn't care, or how it won't affect us.

I'm not hysterical, but nice attempt for an ad hominem attack.

Permabear · 11-11-2016 12:16PM

This post has been deleted.

Akrasia · 11-11-2016 12:16PM

rob316 wrote: »

My wife still cant get past the idea that she lost because she is a woman. Can't understand how you could elect that racist, sexist pig over a woman who has spent 40 years in politics.

She didn't lose 'because she's a woman'.

This is actually a bit mad, Hillary campaigned on being the 1st female president. In other words, she wanted people to vote for her because she was a woman. If Hillary was a man with the same personality and political baggage as Hillary had, she probably would have lost by even more.

Some in the republican base were probably turned off her because she is a woman, but she was never gonna win them anyway because they are republicans. She should have been targeting the Democratic base, and independents, but at the end of the day, her voting record, her arrogance in conspiring with the DNC to install her as their nominee, and her constantly having something to hide (her paid speeches, her deleted emails, the investigations showing that she broke the law...) meant that there weren't enough people enthusiastic about her to push her over the line against the standard republican turnout.

Trump didn't get any more votes than Romney did, but Hillary did way worse than Obama. She got 10 million fewer votes than Obama in 2008 and 5 million fewer than he got in 2002.

The Democratic party lost this election, not just Clinton. The republicans aren't gaining ground, the democrats are losing supporters, by always trying to win the 'centre', they're losing their own base.

The centre in the U.S. is actually way to the left of where the Democrats think it is, but they're in conflict with their wealthy donors who they have to keep on board, so they campaign on the basis of only promising the bare minimum required to win enough right wing votes to beat the republicans.

The republicans are at the peak of their support, they've gone full nutjob, there is nowhere for them to go. the democrats need to allow the republicans to have that base of 60 million voters, and go after the other 150 million voters who are up for grabs, almost all of them more liberal and progressive than where the republicans and the democrats are right now.

rob316 · 11-11-2016 12:18PM

Watching TV earlier. think it was CNN or FOX they were talking to a protestor.

Some absolute idiots but this was my favorite.

" This is a great democratic nation, look at all these people out here and across America protesting, we do not want Donald Trump as our president"

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

seenitall · 11-11-2016 12:19PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

No, she lost because of the system. The same system that Trump said was rigged in her favour.

The same system that gave us all of the Democrat incumbents through the years, too. It's a non-argument, so to speak. For both parties. But only one of them is crying into their cornflakes over it now, of course.

Jelle1880 · 11-11-2016 12:19PM

rob316 wrote: »

Watching TV earlier. think it was CNN or FOX they were talking to a protestor.

Some absolute idiots but this was my favorite.

" This is a great democratic nation, look at all these people out here and across America protesting, we do not want Donald Trump as our president"

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If they do it peacefully then they are well within their democratic right to protest Trump's presidency, right ?

Why was this not an issue when Republicans protested and started up the Tea Party in response to Obama's election ?

gandalf · 11-11-2016 12:21PM

Widdershins wrote: »

They know Hillary wouldn't deliver. We *doubt* Trump will. Some hope is better than none. It remains to be seen.

But the scary thing is anyone who was interviewed were convinced that Trump has a plan. There were no details to the plan. Make America Great again is an aspiration, it isn't a plan. Bring the jobs back isn't a plan it's a slogan. I believe people got suckered in by an aspiration and slogans and the actual plan is vapourware. What's worrying is what short term decisions will be made to try and achieve this non-plan and what real long term damage will it do to the US and to external markets.

From a purely selfish Irish perspective 135,000 people are directly employed by US owned or majority owned Enterprises. In 2014 $310 billion was invested in Ireland. How many of those jobs will be effected, how many knock on secondary jobs. I certainly expect any US firms looking to locate outside of the US will slow down their plans until the see what this new administration is going to do. That directly affects us.

_Jamie_ · 11-11-2016 12:22PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

A lot of Irish people I know are not happy with that. A lot of Irish people I know want further separation of church and state. Religious participation continues to decline in this country. It will take a while for that to filter through to sweeping changes in education and government. But I for one am confident it will happen. It might just take a while. It won't happen overnight.

As said by others, your whataboutery here comes across as deflection. It's very transparent. We are talking about the US here, not Ireland.

keano_afc · 11-11-2016 12:24PM

I can imagine the media reaction to these "protests" would be exactly the same if Clinton has won and it was Trump's supporters on the streets. :rolleyes:

jmayo · 11-11-2016 12:25PM

gandalf wrote: »

Look the fact that matters is the job pool these people have if they stay at their base education and skills level is shrinking rapidly and not only in the manufacturing side of things but also the service side of things. We can all empathise and stand around singing Kumbaya but it doesn't take away from the cold hard fact that the vast majority of these people are unemployable in the modern world and as time goes by they become even more unemployable.

What I and others are saying whilst very harsh is the reality for them and us in the coming future.

Ok you are one of ones I commented about yesterday when I raised this.
Earlier you talked about upskilling, education, etc.

What is someone that hasn't the highest IQ or isn't naturally dispensed towards formal education meant to do ?

Lets be honest a huge chunk of people aren't suited to academic education.
It is not meant to be condescending, but it is the equivalent of saying not everyone is capable of working with their hands and producing artisan work.

An issue I think that has occurred in Ireland is that there is this mindset that everyone should go off to third level education and shure it looks great when we show how many graduates we have to all them foreigners.
The only issue is the standard is diluted, you find mickie mouse courses and people doing course for the sake of it.

And what is the definition of upskill, what is it meant to be ?
If you are normal unemployed factory floor worker what do you upskill to ?
Are you meant to now be a computer programmmer, a systems analyst, a futures trader, a carpenter, a chef, an interior designer ?

This argument always reminds of a time when farmers were being told to diversify into rearing rabbits, pheasants, deer, running B&B farmbreaks,etc.

That is all well and good for a few, but the major issue is that there isn't the market for everyone to move into the new sphere.

20Cent · 11-11-2016 12:27PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

False equivalence.

Permabear · 11-11-2016 12:27PM

This post has been deleted.

rob316 · 11-11-2016 12:28PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If they do it peacefully then they are well within their democratic right to protest Trump's presidency, right ?

Why was this not an issue when Republicans protested and started up the Tea Party in response to Obama's election ?

The irony is lost on them though. That protestor called it a great democratic nation. The democratic process was followed, a system the electorate have trusted for a long time, he won.

jimgoose · 11-11-2016 12:29PM

Traditionally in the USA and Britain, there was mass blue-collar employment in various manufacturing and resource industries. These have now largely disappeared, leaving vast swathes of regular Joes and Josies more-or-less permanently unemployed. This is a relatively new problem in these jurisdictions and no-one, not even Mr. T, seems to have the first glimmer what to do about it. As for Ireland, we never had mass blue-collar employment and made up for it with Aer Lingus and bloody awful Christy Moore songs.

Morpheus · 11-11-2016 12:31PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Traditionally in the USA and Britain, there was mass blue-collar employment in various manufacturing and resource industries. These have now largely disappeared, leaving vast swathes of regular Joes and Josies more-or-less permanently unemployed. This is a relatively new problem in these jurisdictions and no-one, not even Mr. T, seems to have the first glimmer what to do about it. As for Ireland, we never had mass blue-collar employment and made up for it with Aer Lingus and bloody awful Christy Moore songs.

If there's no work for these people, then how come so many J1s from ireland or Mexicans can get crap paying jobs there? why don't the unemployed americans just start off on the bottom rung and get crap pay to do a job?

valoren · 11-11-2016 12:34PM

gandalf wrote: »

But the scary thing is anyone who was interviewed were convinced that Trump has a plan. There were no details to the plan. Make America Great again is an aspiration, it isn't a plan. Bring the jobs back isn't a plan it's a slogan. I believe people got suckered in by an aspiration and slogans and the actual plan is vapourware. What's worrying is what short term decisions will be made to try and achieve this non-plan and what real long term damage will it do to the US and to external markets.

From a purely selfish Irish perspective 135,000 people are directly employed by US owned or majority owned Enterprises. In 2014 $310 billion was invested in Ireland. How many of those jobs will be effected, how many knock on secondary jobs. I certainly expect any US firms looking to locate outside of the US will slow down their plans until the see what this new administration is going to do. That directly affects us.

His campaign was the US version of 'Vote Yes for Jobs'.

Renegade Mechanic · 11-11-2016 12:35PM

gandalf wrote: »

I really feel sorry for the inhabitants of the "rust belt" thinking Trump is going to bring blue collar manual jobs back. Firstly a lot of jobs have been replaced or are about to be replaced by Automation and then the ones that do still require a human involved will require the US staff to take a serious cut in wages to prise the jobs away from China and other such global sweat houses. Funnily I don't see American workers being willing to make this sacrifice on pay. It's going to be interesting to see how they react when they realise they have been sold a pup!

What's the alternative? Just abandon them? Because Work Fo-No Ting can do it for 5 cents an hour? That's it, sorry lads, **** yis

You can't just leave people to fester and rot. Donald was the only candidate left even acknowledging them, whatever of his promises.
Which, ironically, makes him the candidate working hardest to stop Hitler, because it's when you abandon people to a fate like that, while still taxing them that things like fascism are actually born....

jimgoose · 11-11-2016 12:37PM

Morpheus wrote: »

If there's no work for these people, then how come so many J1s from ireland or Mexicans can get crap paying jobs there? why don't the unemployed americans just start off on the bottom rung and get crap pay to do a job?

Maybe, being "relics" of a time when 30,000 or so headed off to the Big Three at each shift start-time in Detroit alone, because there are too many of them and many of them expect proper wages? I don't know, you'd have to ask them.

jmayo · 11-11-2016 12:38PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes but you are still refusing to see the point that you can be involved with politics without actually being the politician that is up for election.

El Presidente Trump

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