Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Ulysses Gaze · 09-11-2016 10:12PM

mzungu wrote: »

+ 1. It needs proper long sentences and none of this getting out early due to good behaviour lark.

Some offences are so serious (Murder, Rape/Sexual Assault, Serious Aggravated Assault) that Judicial Discretion should be scrapped altogether in sentencing them.

osmiumartist · 09-11-2016 10:13PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Some offences are so serious (Murder, Rape/Sexual Assault, Serious Aggravated Assault) that Judicial Discretion should be scrapped altogether in sentencing them.

I'd go so far as to say mandatory sentences would be better for every conviction, but that's for another thread.

The Rape of Lucretia · 09-11-2016 10:16PM

Is the discussion of 'rape culture' all just due to a serious decline in pillage ?

09-11-2016 10:17PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Some offences are so serious (Murder, Rape/Sexual Assault, Serious Aggravated Assault) that Judicial Discretion should be scrapped altogether in sentencing them.

Not sure if many are aware of this but a life sentence for rape is possible in this state.

09-11-2016 10:18PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is the discussion of 'rape culture' all just due to a serious decline in pillage ?

The Pillage of Lucretia... not bad.

Muahahaha · 09-11-2016 10:20PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

Yes, we get it. Case = guilty.
Who needs that silly "conviction" bit. Silly old "innocent until proven guilty" malarkey.

I think the point has gone right over your head and it is nothing to do with innocent until proven guilty. Rape is a criminal matter so in order for the DPP to even consider taking a case first the Gardai must gather medical evidence and conduct interviews then the file gets considered by the DPP. The DPP will only take a case if they are confident that the perpetrator is guilty and if they think they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is a hell of a lot of State resources spent on bringing rape cases to the criminal courts. Plenty of women get raped but never get justice, simply because the DPP doesnt feel there is enough evidence to commit to spending limited resources.

osmiumartist · 09-11-2016 10:32PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think the point has gone right over your head and it is nothing to do with innocent until proven guilty.

So your figure for the rape incidence rate is... go on then. We have a conviction rate. You've got "I think it should be..." yeah?

Muahahaha · 09-11-2016 10:51PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

So your figure for the rape incidence rate is... go on then. We have a conviction rate. You've got "I think it should be..." yeah?

eh, no. We have reporting statistics to the Rape Crises Centre and then reporting stastics to the Gardai. There is a huge discrepancy between the two figures. So unless you are going to try to tell us a majority of women enjoy going to the Rape Crises Center to report fake rapes then yes, something is seriously amiss. If you cant see that then you should really open your eyes because there is tons of evidence on this.

And thats not even counting the majority of women who never report rape, to anyone. Same goes for child abuse, the majority of it never gets even reported because it happens in the family home. As does rape, it is not always down the dark alleyway that you think, most rape takes place in a relationship.

FortySeven · 09-11-2016 10:55PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh, no. We have reporting statistics to the Rape Crises Centre and then reporting stastics to the Gardai. There is a huge discrepancy between the two figures. So unless you are going to try to tell us that women enjoy going to the Rape Crises Center to report fake rapes then yes, something is seriously amiss.

And thats not even counting the majority of women who never report rape, to anyone. Same goes for child abuse, the majority of it never gets even reported because it happens in the family home

And which should we believe? A criminal justice system filled with checks and balances from start to conclusion or a phone line from a charity that has no interest financially in the reduction of any sexual assault. (against women)

osmiumartist · 09-11-2016 11:05PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh, no. We have reporting statistics to the Rape Crises Centre and then reporting stastics to the Gardai. There is a huge discrepancy between the two figures. So unless you are going to try to tell us a majority of women enjoy going to the Rape Crises Center to report fake rapes then yes, something is seriously amiss. If you cant see that then you should really open your eyes because there is tons of evidence on this.

And thats not even counting the majority of women who never report rape, to anyone. Same goes for child abuse, the majority of it never gets even reported because it happens in the family home. As does rape, it is not always down the dark alleyway that you think, most rape takes place in a relationship.

Well go on then.
Pick a number. The only hard number we have (35 per year) obviously doesn't suit your agenda.

eviltwin · 09-11-2016 11:05PM

FortySeven wrote: »

And which should we believe? A criminal justice system filled with checks and balances from start to conclusion or a phone line from a charity that has no interest financially in the reduction of any sexual assault. (against women)

It has to get to court first for those checks and balances to apply. What that poster describes does happen. I'm a rape survivor. My abuser raped others but never saw a courtroom. We are not statistics, we do not feature in official figures but it still happened.

FortySeven · 09-11-2016 11:12PM

eviltwin wrote: »

It has to get to court first for those checks and balances to apply. What that poster describes does happen. I'm a rape survivor. My abuser raped others but never saw a courtroom. We are not statistics, we do not feature in official figures but it still happened.

I'm also a rape 'survivor'. I grew up in care homes in the 90s.

Lets leave the victim bit at the door shall we?

Do you honestly believe we men are against the prosecution of ANY type of sexual assault? We detest it, we shun and fight any notion of it in our families, our communities and our countries.

Rape culture is a myth. The prosecution rate of a creaking, antiquated criminal justice system is a separate matter altogether and such a niche market in the definition of culture that the fragmentation has become so obtuse it is now back looking itself in the eye.

eviltwin · 09-11-2016 11:17PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I'm also a rape 'survivor'. I grew up in care homes in the 90s.

Lets leave the victim bit at the door shall we?

Do you honestly believe we men are against the prosecution of ANY type of sexual assault? We detest it, we shun and fight any notion of it in our families, our communities and our countries.

Rape culture is a myth. The prosecution rate of a creaking, antiquated criminal justice system is a separate matter altogether and such a niche market in the definition of culture that the fragmentation has become so obtuse it is now back looking itself in the eye.

I'm not suggesting there is a rape culture or that all men are anything. There is no need for that defensive tone. Not sure how you got any of that from my post tbh.

FortySeven · 09-11-2016 11:21PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not suggesting there is a rape culture or that all men are anything. There is no need for that defensive tone. Not sure how you got any of that from my post tbh.

Apologies eviltwin.

I didn't notice the username. I had been following the argument put forward by midlandmissus and I just assumed I we responding to the same poster.

A mistake on my part.

Sorry.

demfad · 10-11-2016 09:26AM

py2006 wrote: »

For the most part I didn't see it as a big deal and the only time it pops into my mind is when the likes of Louise O'Neill or Una Mulally or any 'modern' feminist talks of this subject matter.

Trump wasn't describing once off grabs he was describing attempts to initiate sexual intercourse with women.

If she was a lot bigger and a lot stronger than you, intimidating, powerful and famous and took anything other than a strong physical defense as consent for sexual intercourse would you not see it as a 'big deal'?

How many women did Trump force intercourse on because they were shocked or afraid to repel him because of his power and fame?

If you were grabbed inappropriately you should complain. If youre worried people will laugh at you for complaining then that has a lot to do with how culture perceives manhood/masculinity. You wont find any feminists laughing at you.

demfad · 10-11-2016 09:32AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh, no. We have reporting statistics to the Rape Crises Centre and then reporting stastics to the Gardai. There is a huge discrepancy between the two figures. So unless you are going to try to tell us a majority of women enjoy going to the Rape Crises Center to report fake rapes then yes, something is seriously amiss. If you cant see that then you should really open your eyes because there is tons of evidence on this.

And thats not even counting the majority of women who never report rape, to anyone. Same goes for child abuse, the majority of it never gets even reported because it happens in the family home. As does rape, it is not always down the dark alleyway that you think, most rape takes place in a relationship.

Good post. Since the law making it illegal to rape a spouse came into existence in the early 90's there has been only one conviction under it I believe. Pretty shocking.

demfad · 10-11-2016 09:46AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Do you honestly believe we men are against the prosecution of ANY type of sexual assault? We detest it, we shun and fight any notion of it in our families, our communities and our countries[/B].

Can't you see with the election of Donald Trump to be president of the United States that what you state cannot be true? If men fought "any notion" of sexual assault then why did this man win the Republican nomination and the presidency?

Walter H Price · 10-11-2016 09:53AM

I would have voted trump and watching the winging whining libertard's like Louise O'Neill cry over spilled milk has nearly been the sweetest part of his win.

I'm not sexist by the way i vote based on politics , just i would never have considered voting for the establishment creature Clinton , i would 100% support Marine Le Pen for president of France.

I'm a White , Straight , Cis-Gender (watever the fcuk that is), Solidly Middle Class , Red Blooded .Male and fcuking proud of it , i love my "Privilege"... i hope Trumps win heralds the death of this PC , Snowflake Generation , Libertard , Cultural Marxist BS

Ordinary people are sick to the back teeth Men in particular of being constantly call out as being homophobic , sexist , racist whatever .... Trump said it all and he's still president the SJW thing has become the but of jokes to most people and that's awesome.

FortySeven · 10-11-2016 10:25AM

demfad wrote: »

Can't you see with the election of Donald Trump to be president of the United States that what you state cannot be true? If men fought "any notion" of sexual assault then why did this man win the Republican nomination and the presidency?

Jesus Christ. He was just showing off in private whilst being secretly recorded. He said something, he likely didn't do it.

Rich, powerful men generally don't need to go around assaulting women for sex. They either use the girls queuing up looking for a catch or they pay for it.

Trying to equate his election to all men are rapists is hilarity.

Zulu · 10-11-2016 10:25AM

I suspect that the Hillary message of: "If you don't vote for me, you are not a feminist" backfired. Royally.

People aren't stupid, and trying to back them into a corner with their vote isn't welcome. This message was aimed at educated women, who, lets face it, understand that it's fu(kin sexist. You're feminist, ergo you vote for me because I'm a woman. That's bound to rile people, especially when it's a message that coming along with the email scandal, the Bernie Sanders shenanigans, and all the dirt that was being dug up about her by the otherside.

Educated women saw through the bs and voted the way they saw fit. I can't say I agree with their candidate, but that's their choice (the irony that some feminists don't respect their opinion/vote isn't lost on me).

Now, lets see what comes out of the ashes, and lets all hope he isn't in the mood to launch a nuke.

demfad · 10-11-2016 10:25AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Mothers want the best for their sons. Feminisits (modern ones) appear to view their own offspring as a future, potential threat.

It's ****ing scary.

Feminism would have sons treated equally to daughters. Girls are doing better than boys in school because schooling is now culturally defined as nerdish and girlish. Nothing to do with feminism.

I do take exception to your quote above. How you bring a child up has a huge affect on a child's core beliefs. Of course they will try and bring up their child to believe boys and girls are equal. If you bring them up to believe they are unequal then you will cause them problems in life. And if a boy has male privilege as a core belief, he can't respect women as equals. With the wrong personality, he could do a lot worse. This is simpe nature/nurture stuff:
Bring children up to believe studying is for p***sies, then youll see the issues you see. Bring them up to believe women are less than them, you'll get a lot of domestic violence, rape culture etc. Feminsism addresses this.

Walter H Price · 10-11-2016 10:28AM

Zulu wrote: »

I suspect that the Hillary message of: "If you don't vote for me, you are not a feminist" backfired. Royally.

Great quote from Tomi Lahren the other day i think it was who said that as a woman she was voting for Trump because she believed in his politics and the politics of the Republican party and as a woman she wouldn't be made feel ashamed for voting with her brain and not with her vagina.

FortySeven · 10-11-2016 10:34AM

demfad wrote: »

Feminism would have sons treated equally to daughters. Girls are doing better than boys in school because schooling is now culturally defined as nerdish and girlish. Nothing to do with feminism.

I do take exception to your quote above. How you bring a child up has a huge affect on a child's core beliefs. Of course they will try and bring up their child to believe boys and girls are equal. If you bring them up to believe they are unequal then you will cause them problems in life. And if a boy has male privilege as a core belief, he can't respect women as equals. With the wrong personality, he could do a lot worse. This is simpe nature/nurture stuff:
Bring children up to believe studying is for p***sies, then youll see the issues you see. Bring them up to believe women are less than them, you'll get a lot of domestic violence, rape culture etc. Feminsism addresses this.

Total arse. The minute you mentioned privilege. Arse biscuits.

demfad · 10-11-2016 10:34AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Jesus Christ. He was just showing off in private whilst being secretly recorded. He said something, he likely didn't do it.

Part of his showing off was to claim he sexually assaulted women. If he was showing off he thinks this is OK. If he thinks its OK then why wouldn't he do as he says he does?
Over a dozen women have come forward claiming he did just that.
That and his own words means that almost certainly he did what he said he did, many times.

If American culture detested any sign of sexual assault (as the poster i replied to implied) then how could this man get elected? Either they don't care or they believe that the women who came forward are all liars. It denotes a deeply misogynistic culture either way.

Zulu · 10-11-2016 10:34AM

demfad wrote: »

Can't you see with the election of Donald Trump to be president of the United States that what you state cannot be true? If men fought "any notion" of sexual assault then why did this man win the Republican nomination and the presidency?

No demfad, you are wrong.
Sure Trump is a crass, brash git. Any, if I had to guess, it wouldn't surprise me to find out he sexually assaulted someone. He fits the profile I reckon.

But talk is also cheap. Saying one thing doesn't equate to doing it. And he's much like our own Michael O'Leary, in that he'll say anything to get your heckles up, because you know what, he doesn't give a **** about you.

You're right to be upset he's elected. But not because men rallied behind a sexual predator. That's not true. People did not vote for him because they believe him to be a sexual predator, rather, people saw beyond the mud slinging, beyond the crass comments, beyond the media message, and saw the only opportunity for change that was available.

Obama won, a black president in a racist country, because he promised change. "Yes we can"

Hillary lost the election because she promised more of the same.

demfad · 10-11-2016 10:36AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Total arse. The minute you mentioned privilege. Arse biscuits.

You'll probably need to supply a reason there?

FortySeven · 10-11-2016 10:38AM

demfad wrote: »

Part of his showing off was to claim he sexually assaulted women. If he was showing off he thinks this is OK. If he thinks its OK then why wouldn't he do as he says he does?
Over a dozen women have come forward claiming he did just that.
That and his own words means that almost certainly he did what he said he did, many times.

If American culture detested any sign of sexual assault (as the poster i replied to implied) then how could this man get elected? Either they don't care or they believe that the women who came forward are all liars. It denotes a deeply misogynistic culture either way.

I'm so glad he got elected so this presumptuous, accusational, fearful and downright dangerous form of women's power can be put in a box, thrown off the back of a truck, set on fire and then pissed on.

Does that make me an abuser?

Zulu · 10-11-2016 10:38AM

demfad wrote: »

Feminism would have sons treated equally to daughters. Girls are doing better than boys in school because schooling is now culturally defined as nerdish and girlish. Nothing to do with feminism.

Horse manure. Utter, utter, utter horse manure.
Feminism would have sons treated equally to daughters? Then what are they doing to address the crisis in the education system?
<cue tumble weed>

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 10:40AM

Walter H Price wrote: »

I would have voted trump and watching the winging whining libertard's like Louise O'Neill cry over spilled milk has nearly been the sweetest part of his win.

I'm not sexist by the way i vote based on politics , just i would never have considered voting for the establishment creature Clinton , i would 100% support Marine Le Pen for president of France.

I'm a White , Straight , Cis-Gender (watever the fcuk that is), Solidly Middle Class , Red Blooded .Male and fcuking proud of it , i love my "Privilege"... i hope Trumps win heralds the death of this PC , Snowflake Generation , Libertard , Cultural Marxist BS

Ordinary people are sick to the back teeth Men in particular of being constantly call out as being homophobic , sexist , racist whatever .... Trump said it all and he's still president the SJW thing has become the but of jokes to most people and that's awesome.

Reading today that several Colleges in the US have arranged counselling for their students and cancelled exams.

Trump is a disaster of course but if that's the calibre of the youth - America is f****d.

10-11-2016 10:40AM

Walter H Price wrote: »

I would have voted trump and watching the winging whining libertard's like Louise O'Neill cry over spilled milk has nearly been the sweetest part of his win.

I'm not sexist by the way i vote based on politics , just i would never have considered voting for the establishment creature Clinton , i would 100% support Marine Le Pen for president of France.

I'm a White , Straight , Cis-Gender (watever the fcuk that is), Solidly Middle Class , Red Blooded .Male and fcuking proud of it , i love my "Privilege"... i hope Trumps win heralds the death of this PC , Snowflake Generation , Libertard , Cultural Marxist BS

Ordinary people are sick to the back teeth Men in particular of being constantly call out as being homophobic , sexist , racist whatever .... Trump said it all and he's still president the SJW thing has become the but of jokes to most people and that's awesome.

You seem very angry and defensive.

Good for you that you'd vote Le Pen. That just says to me your racism trumps (hur hur) your sexism. Not something to fist pump about.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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