2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

_Jamie_ · 09-11-2016 06:24PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Hillary Clinton conceding with great dignity. Reminding everyone to give Trump an open mind, and to keep getting involved in politics.

Trump would be throwing toys if he were in this position.

That's true. Sure, he gave a good victory speech but that's easy to do. What might a Trump concession speech have looked like? :eek:

I always knew Hillary would be dignified either way.

PopePalpatine · 09-11-2016 06:25PM

That swamp isn't getting drained any time soon.

Hank Scorpio · 09-11-2016 06:26PM

rob316 wrote: »

This is the standard anti-trump rhetoric been rolled out by the uninformed masses. "He's a lunatic, with his finger on the trigger" "what if he gets a tweet he doesn't like and he has a temper tantrum" And the irony of it, is that Clinton is known to favor military conflict, if anything WW3 has been averted by her not winning.

I don't like the guy, but when I hear he's a moron and an idiot I have to laugh, he just caused the most unlikely result in a presidential election ever. He's far smarter than what people give him credit for.

He said he would win - he did
He said he would wipe the floor with Clinton - he did
He said he would get a greater share of the minority vote than Romney did in the last election - he did

Far from the fool he's been painted as.

He called Weiner out over a year ago saying he was a huge security concern and told the crowd Huma must be sharing emails/information since they're married.

TheDoctor · 09-11-2016 06:27PM

I imagine Donald will not be a fan of the job.

He's never worked in politics before so that's a shock to the system.

Just hand over day to day business to others and run his business.

TheDoctor · 09-11-2016 06:28PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

He called Weiner out over a year ago saying he was a huge security concern and told the crowd Huma must be sharing emails/information since they're married.

If you talk enough sh** then you'll eventually get something right.

For all his correct predictions you could list twice as many stupid ones.

wes · 09-11-2016 06:29PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

That swamp isn't getting drained any time soon.

He scammed his supporters pretty well there. People claiming that he isn't part of an elite need to take note.

Fr Tod Umptious · 09-11-2016 06:30PM

_Jamie_ wrote: »

That's true. Sure, he gave a good victory speech but that's easy to do. What might a Trump concession speech have looked like? :eek:

I always knew Hillary would be dignified either way.

I love this

This morning everyone is ready for a ungracious Trump victory speech, but it never arrives.

So now they spend their time speculating that he would have given an ungracious concession speech.

And had he waited as long as Clinton to give that concession speech he would be ripped to shreds here too.

BorneTobyWilde · 09-11-2016 06:31PM

Obama meeting Trump tomorrow in Oval office at White House
Biden will meet him behind gym afterwards

TheDoctor · 09-11-2016 06:32PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Obama meeting Trump tomorrow in Oval office at White House
Biden will meet him behind gym afterwards

To be a fly on the wall at that meeting.

briany · 09-11-2016 06:40PM

wes wrote: »

He scammed his supporters pretty well there. People claiming that he isn't part of an elite need to take note.

Trump is the personification of corporate capitalism. Instead of voting in a guy who gets lobbied to, they voted in the guy who does the lobbying, and that was supposed to be some sort of coup? It cuts out the middle-man in some ways, I suppose.

wes · 09-11-2016 06:49PM

briany wrote: »

Trump is the personification of corporate capitalism. Instead of voting in a guy who gets lobbied to, they voted in the guy who does the lobbying, and that was supposed to be some sort of coup? It cuts out the middle-man in some ways, I suppose.

Exactly, and in some ways, I am glad that corporate interests are involved. It hopefully means nothing to nutty happens.

There is also a degree of schadenfreude on my part on how easily people were swindled.

09-11-2016 06:50PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And had he waited as long as Clinton to give that concession speech he would be ripped to shreds here too.

Surely someone would have sensibly pointed out that thousands of Hillary Clinton's supporters had already been standing in the convention centre for up to 12 hours, and it wasn't fair to keep them there indefinitely, before the counts were in.

And that when she lost Arizona, Clinton did immediately concede over the telephone, instead of appearing on TV and putting herself at the centre of everything.

It's just bizarre to be defending Hillary Clinton, as if her not conceding was some sort of threat, when Donald Trump said he'd accept the result "if" he won.

The level of hypocrisy is genuinely bizarre.

The Talking Bread · 09-11-2016 06:54PM

Genuine question, how much do you honestly think Donald "make America great again" Trump can fulfill any small percentages of the promises he made during this campaign.
All politicians "manipulate" voters with wishy washy soundbites but his campaign win is completely predicated on the extreme volume of same.

Here are some:

. ‘Build a wall’ — and make Mexico pay for it

. Temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States

- ‘Bring manufacturing (jobs) back’

. Impose tariffs on goods made in China and Mexico

. Renegotiate or withdraw from the North American Free Trade Agreement and Trans-Pacific Partnership

. Full repeal of Obamacare’ and replace it with a market-based alternative

. Renegotiate the Iran deal

. Leave Social Security as is

. Cut taxes

. ‘Bomb’ and/or ‘take the oil’ from ISIS

etc, etc

I genuinely dont think any of these promises will be fulfilled to any satisfactory level and he wont have ANY impact on bloody walls, muslims or Mexican immigrants.

You spoke about HC manipulating certain disadvantaged demographics. Trump's win is completely based on this manipulation.

In fact from what I am reading from a lot of your posts he has completely manipulated you on a lot of issues.

This is not a pro HC post, I think she is equally as detestable in her own way but she would have ambition,intellect, support and contacts to implement a lot of her promises.

Trumps presidency was a chance to feed his ego, I doubt even him thought it possible to win the Republican campaign, let alone the Presidency, Its a case of now the hard work is done, he can go on holiday for 4 years.

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I don't feel like I'm manipulated by Trump, I find Hillary Clinton and her team repulsive.

I agree with you about his policies, he hasn't really outlined specifics, any detail at all really. It's too early to say but with an all Republican Government it will really help him.

I think you need ego to be a leader, he chewed up and spat out those others in the primaries like it was nothing

Look at his old old interviews on Oprah etc, he's been spouting some of the same Policies for 20 years. He was much calmer back then though

The Talking Bread wrote: »

soooooooooooo what is the appeal?? Surely his policies and political intellect, ability to garnish support, party togetherness, ambition to really revolutionise the establishent and issues like employment, healthcare, social security etc etc are deal breakers for many. Its all well and good throwing your toys out of pram regarding "crooked Hillary" but what DID you expect fro Trump that appeals to you?

So are you going to answer this, no?

_Jamie_ · 09-11-2016 06:57PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So now they spend their time speculating that he would have given an ungracious concession speech.

People are basing this view on his own words! We're not pulling it from our hoops. When asked directly, he refused to say that he would concede. If people speculate on this, he only has himself to be blame.

Nabber · 09-11-2016 07:05PM

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

3 things you thought you'd never see happen:

President Donald Trump
UK leave EU
Ireland beat All Blacks

We the state or Ireland are beating all blacks........ and we call Trump racist.

Jawgap · 09-11-2016 07:09PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's literally emails on the foundation donations of people discussing how to hide the money. There's not circumstance, that's corruption.

Assange is already in prison, he can't step outside the door or he`ll be arrested and sent to Sweden, then extradited to the US. He doesn't even have a window.

He voluntarily entered the building, no one will stop him if tries to walk out the front door. He'll be arrested at which point he'll be sold to avail himself of the courts in at least 3 jurisdictions to prove his innocence......seems once again there's a double standard when it comes to Clinton.

Jawgap · 09-11-2016 07:13PM

HensVassal wrote: »

You know what I meant. Fine, nobody's going to actually buy one of these obsolete hulks. Scrap one or scrap that stupid $1.5 Trillion F35 project. That might free up a few nickels to fix the bridges and tunnels.

You do understand the concept of 'sunk cost'?

Scrap the WTF-35 by all means, but Lockheed Martin won't be issuing refunds or credit notes.

Btw, how do you think Congress would react to the project being cancelled, plants bring closed, bases shut etc

FatherTed · 09-11-2016 07:17PM

Wow, the one person who predicted the way it turned out exactly was.... Michael Moore...

Midwest Math, or Welcome to Our Rust Belt Brexit. I believe Trump is going to focus much of his attention on the four blue states in the rustbelt of the upper Great Lakes – Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Four traditionally Democratic states – but each of them have elected a Republican governor since 2010 (only Pennsylvania has now finally elected a Democrat). In the Michigan primary in March, more Michiganders came out to vote for the Republicans (1.32 million) that the Democrats (1.19 million). Trump is ahead of Hillary in the latest polls in Pennsylvania and tied with her in Ohio. Tied? How can the race be this close after everything Trump has said and done? Well maybe it’s because he’s said (correctly) that the Clintons’ support of NAFTA helped to destroy the industrial states of the Upper Midwest. Trump is going to hammer Clinton on this and her support of TPP and other trade policies that have royally screwed the people of these four states. When Trump stood in the shadow of a Ford Motor factory during the Michigan primary, he threatened the corporation that if they did indeed go ahead with their planned closure of that factory and move it to Mexico, he would slap a 35% tariff on any Mexican-built cars shipped back to the United States. It was sweet, sweet music to the ears of the working class of Michigan, and when he tossed in his threat to Apple that he would force them to stop making their iPhones in China and build them here in America, well, hearts swooned and Trump walked away with a big victory that should have gone to the governor next-door, John Kasich.
From Green Bay to Pittsburgh, this, my friends, is the middle of England – broken, depressed, struggling, the smokestacks strewn across the countryside with the carcass of what we use to call the Middle Class. Angry, embittered working (and nonworking) people who were lied to by the trickle-down of Reagan and abandoned by Democrats who still try to talk a good line but are really just looking forward to rub one out with a lobbyist from Goldman Sachs who’ll write them nice big check before leaving the room. What happened in the UK with Brexit is going to happen here. Elmer Gantry shows up looking like Boris Johnson and just says whatever **** he can make up to convince the masses that this is their chance! To stick to ALL of them, all who wrecked their American Dream! And now The Outsider, Donald Trump, has arrived to clean house! You don’t have to agree with him! You don’t even have to like him! He is your personal Molotov cocktail to throw right into the center of the bastards who did this to you! SEND A MESSAGE! TRUMP IS YOUR MESSENGER!
And this is where the math comes in. In 2012, Mitt Romney lost by 64 electoral votes. Add up the electoral votes cast by Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. It’s 64. All Trump needs to do to win is to carry, as he’s expected to do, the swath of traditional red states from Idaho to Georgia (states that’ll never vote for Hillary Clinton), and then he just needs these four rust belt states. He doesn’t need Florida. He doesn’t need Colorado or Virginia. Just Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. And that will put him over the top. This is how it will happen in November.

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

CMOTDibbler · 09-11-2016 07:39PM

FatherTed wrote: »

Wow, the one person who predicted the way it turned out exactly was.... Michael Moore...

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Yeah, I read that and thought it was well constructed. Certainly turned out that way.

Low turnout has to have been a factor too. Less than 50% voted which I think is the lowest since 1996 and only the second lowest since 1924.

The Talking Bread · 09-11-2016 07:44PM

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

3 things you thought you'd never see happen:

President Donald Trump
UK leave EU
Ireland beat All Blacks

Leicester winning PL, in my opinion genuinely trumped all of those. And by a fair distance!

CMOTDibbler · 09-11-2016 07:47PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Leicester winning PL, in my opinion genuinely trumped all of those. And by a fair distance!

I see what you did there

Well done!

4068ac1elhodqr · 09-11-2016 07:48PM

Nostradamus may have been on to something:

“The great shameless, audacious bawler,
He will be elected governor of the army:
The boldness of his contention,
The bridge broken, the city faint from fear. ”

The masculine woman will exert herself to the north
She will annoy nearly all of Europe and the rest of the world.
Two failures will put her in such an imbalance
That both life and death will strengthen Eastern Europe

Letters are found in the queen's chests,
No signature and no name of the author.
The ruse will conceal the offers;
so that they do not know who the lover is.

The Talking Bread · 09-11-2016 08:11PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Leicester winning PL, in my opinion genuinely trumped all of those. And by a fair distance!

I see what you did there

Well done!

Genuinely and I swear would have used that exact turn of phrase regardless of Trump! It's a popular phrase!

devnull · 09-11-2016 08:12PM

Hillary did campaign often with the slogan "Love Trumps Hate."

Good of her to do his promotion of hate for him

Arytonblue · 09-11-2016 08:13PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yeah, I read that and thought it was well constructed. Certainly turned out that way.

Low turnout has to have been a factor too. Less than 50% voted which I think is the lowest since 1996 and only the second lowest since 1924.

That's a very important point and one of the few good insights I've seen today on this thread. I imagine it will take a long while before the turnout from '08 is bettered, dislike for both candidates, a general fatigue from an awful campaign was always going to favour Trump I think.

Having said that there has to be some perspective here. Outside of the Midwest, Clinton performed exactly as most had predicted, swept the West and Northeast, won Colorado and Nevada, after an early scare won Virginia and nationally will likely(but barely) win the popular vote. She was always likely to lose Ohio and Iowa, Florida and N.C. were complete toss ups, so the true puzzles are Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

I did a pretty rudimentary analysis of each state and no doubt Trump managed to flip several rural and suburban counties, but that was never going to be enough to win all three. The key for democrats in these states has always been massive turnout in cities like Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Ann Arbour, Milwaukee and Madison. This is how they've won these states since '92 without fail and for whatever reason the turnout was just not there. The polls leading up to election day had her relatively comfortably ahead in all three, so for me it's not the 'secret Trump voter' factor, or even the supposed surge of the white blue collar vote, it was a lukewarm turnout from traditional Democrat strongholds that won the day. Now for this you could come with a myriad of reasons, but I thought it was worthwhile to showcase that this may not have been the overly dramatic shift in America that people are talking about.

Having said all that I still can't believe it.:eek:

Overheal · 09-11-2016 08:21PM

Jawgap wrote: »

You do understand the concept of 'sunk cost'?

Scrap the WTF-35 by all means, but Lockheed Martin won't be issuing refunds or credit notes.

Btw, how do you think Congress would react to the project being cancelled, plants bring closed, bases shut etc

Skunk cost is why the Navy's new omgwtf 80 mile range artillery shell now cost $800,000 per shot fired

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gizmodo.com_the-2Dus-2Dnavys-2Dnew-2Dwarship-2Dgun-2Dcosts-2D800-2D000-2Dto-2Dfire-2D1788656227&d=CwMFaQ&c=Ngd-ta5yRYsqeUsEDgxhcqsYYY1Xs5ogLxWPA_2Wlc4&r=yBvNWbo4xzd-ELH2Xzvv4e6MV9R09DJQyVy49vJuZ2c&m=UNCtMcBBEdw-z7xEVFisYwgfj9mlWS1KanPQmIPqLyk&s=iMHwrkqGmK9Lx_0T7ULG1BT3j1nx1Y7zqrqq-E_GSB0&e=

The Talking Bread · 09-11-2016 08:21PM

Tbh, I am shocked Clinton team couldn't find any more "dirt" on Trump. After 70 years living that sort of life of controversy, his team done a great job covering a lot of stuff up. Whether personal, business wise or politically wise. I don't think they used his NRA affiliation much to their advantage either.
In some ways Trump is a saint of a politician compared to others, past and present.

TheDoctor · 09-11-2016 08:21PM

So who wants to start the 2020 thread?

marienbad · 09-11-2016 08:23PM

Can I ask our American friends now that the GOP have swept the board for their thoughts after this extraordinary night ?

The Talking Bread · 09-11-2016 08:23PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

So who wants to start the 2020 thread?

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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