My Log on the Run

jake1970 · 07-11-2016 09:46PM

tang1 wrote: »

Delighted for you L, you worked hard for that in training & through the race, massive well done.

Thanks B, I need to get the finger out now and start to get a few PBs over the shorter distances once I get Donadea out of the way.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Great race J and a great time well done sorry I didn't get to see you in Mc Grattans.

Thanks A, there were so many boardies that I didn't see after in the McGratans but unfortunately I coudnt stay to long. How is your recovery going?

Singer wrote: »

Great race and report L, and it was good seeing you on the day... in the pub afterwards that is, I don't have good memories of our encounter in Kilmainham

Thanks B, it was good catching up with you after in McGrattans.

jake1970 · 07-11-2016 10:10PM

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I enjoyed that report. To echo your own question, what's next on the list for yourself?

Next up is Donadea 50k in February and at the moment I am not really thinking beyond that. At some stage I will try and improve my times over the shorter distances, I only got one PB this year at the shorter distances and that was at 5 miles.

hot buttered scones · 07-11-2016 10:23PM

jake1970 wrote:

Next up is Donadea 50k in February and at the moment I am not really thinking beyond that. At some stage I will try and improve my times over the shorter distances, I only got one PB this year at the shorter distances and that was at 5 miles.

Fair play. I'd like to have a crack off 50k some day. I'll be interested to see the type of training you do.

jake1970 · 07-11-2016 11:25PM

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Fair play. I'd like to have a crack off 50k some day. I'll be interested to see the type of training you do.

So am I:D.

Ideally I would just modify a marathon training plan but with only 13 weeks to Donadea I am a bit short on time as I will need to allow for recovery from the Marathon too. P&D have plans for multi marathoning and I am considering doing the 12 week plan which includes recovery at the start of the plan but then ramps up to training 6 days a week and peaks at 60+ miles which might be just too much for my auld body. What ever plan I decide to do I will probably do back to back long runs at the weekend. I will hopefully do one long run of 40k which I will do on a 4k looped route from my house just to get a feel for running laps as Donadea is run over 10 laps of 5k. So that is sort of the plan. If anyone has any thoughts on the above or any advice on 50k training I would love to hear it.

ThebitterLemon · 07-11-2016 11:32PM

jake1970 wrote: »

So am I:D.

Ideally I would just modify a marathon training plan but with only 13 weeks to Donadea I am a bit short on time as I will need to allow for recovery from the Marathon too. P&D have plans for multi marathoning and I am considering doing the 12 week plan which includes recovery at the start of the plan but then ramps up to training 6 days a week and peaks at 60+ miles which might be just too much for my auld body. What ever plan I decide to do I will probably do back to back long runs at the weekend. I will hopefully do one long run of 40k which I will do on a 4k looped route from my house just to get a feel for running laps as Donadea is run over 10 laps of 5k. So that is sort of the plan. If anyone has any thoughts on the above or any advice on 50k training I would love to hear it.

No major difference really required to training for marathon in my opinion. Maybe slightly increase the length of the weekly LR. Maybe consider doing one of MCI or EOI marathons as one of your long runs as part of your build up.

You'd have managed the 50k off the marathon training you did but obviously would have had to scaled back the pace.

TbL

hot buttered scones · 08-11-2016 12:00AM

I had a look at the 12 week plan there and it's definitely based around a higher mileage plan - maybe the up to 70 one? I'd say you could compare it to the up to 55 plan and draw up your own version. The extra miles seem to come from a 6th day of running at recovery pace and an extra mile here and there on the sessions. You could maybe give it a go and drop the 6th day if it's too much? I like the sound of that 40k on a 4k loop. Makes it easier to stash water, gels etc.

jake1970 · 08-11-2016 11:56PM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

No major difference really required to training for marathon in my opinion. Maybe slightly increase the length of the weekly LR. Maybe consider doing one of MCI or EOI marathons as one of your long runs as part of your build up.

You'd have managed the 50k off the marathon training you did but obviously would have had to scaled back the pace.

TbL

Thanks for that Tbl, I thought that marathon training would be enough but its nice to have a runner of your experience confirm it.

jake1970 · 09-11-2016 12:01AM

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I had a look at the 12 week plan there and it's definitely based around a higher mileage plan - maybe the up to 70 one? I'd say you could compare it to the up to 55 plan and draw up your own version. The extra miles seem to come from a 6th day of running at recovery pace and an extra mile here and there on the sessions. You could maybe give it a go and drop the 6th day if it's too much? I like the sound of that 40k on a 4k loop. Makes it easier to stash water, gels etc.

Yeah I will probably tweak it a bit to suit me.
The neighbours will probably think that I have finally flipped when they see me running past their house 10 times

Murph_D · 21-11-2016 03:44PM

Hi J - I'm down for Donadea too. 12 weeks starting today!

Haven't thought a lot about it - my instinct is to modify the 12-week version of P&D55, adding a few miles to the LRs. I've done a run in Donadea and as far as I recall it involves at least some gravel/trail so maybe an idea to incorporate some off-road into the plan too.

Younganne doing this too, expressed an interest in visiting the park one of these days, now that it's getting cold and wet, if you'd like to join us?

D

jake1970 · 22-11-2016 12:19AM

Murph_D wrote: »

Hi J - I'm down for Donadea too. 12 weeks starting today!

Haven't thought a lot about it - my instinct is to modify the 12-week version of P&D55, adding a few miles to the LRs. I've done a run in Donadea and as far as I recall it involves at least some gravel/trail so maybe an idea to incorporate some off-road into the plan too.

Younganne doing this too, expressed an interest in visiting the park one of these days, now that it's getting cold and wet, if you'd like to join us?

D

I would definitely be up for a run in Donadea, maybe UM1 could give us a guided tour.

While I am here I suppose I should update my log.

Post marathon week:
Plenty of rest.

Week beginning the 7th
back running and I managed to run 17 miles at recovery pace over 4 runs. These runs highlighted a few niggles one being a tight hip that thankfully loosened up by the end of the week.

Week beginning the 14th
23 miles at recovery pace over 4 runs.

jake1970 · 23-11-2016 10:38PM

This week sees the start of my training for Donadea 50k. I am following a plan from P&D which is 12 week plan from the multi marathoning section of the book. The reason I opted for this plan and not the usual 12 week plan was because the first 2 weeks of the plan have plenty of recovery runs as I don't think I have fully recovered from DCM yet. I will have to tweak the plan as it has 6 days a week of training and I just cant manage that many days and the weekly mileage is also higher than I am use to so I will be cutting that back a bit too. My training paces will be the same as the paces that I trained for DCM.

Monday
5 miles @ 9:03 recovery

Tuesday
5 miles @ 9:01 recovery

After 2 weeks of nothing only recovery runs and another 2 recovery runs so far this week I will inject a little bit of speed into the legs by way of strides on my next run.

jake1970 · 28-11-2016 08:43AM

Thursday
6 miles @ 8:15m/m with 6x100m strides
It was nice to get a bit of speed back into my training, the legs really liked. Most enjoyable run since coming back after DCM.

Friday
4 miles @ 9:09m/m recovery

Sunday
7 miles @ 8:35m/m General Aerobic.
This was down in the plan as a recovery run but I couldn't face another run of recovery miles so I decided to run at GA pace instead.

jake1970 · 01-12-2016 09:51AM

Monday
6 miles @ 9:06m/m recovery

Tuesday
7 miles @ 8:17m/m General aerobic

Since DCM I seem to be slowly losing my running mojo, this week in particular it has being really bad. It took a lot of convincing to get out for a run this week and when I do run it feels like a chore. If I didnt run this week it wouldn't have bothered me and that's not like me. If I wasn't signed up for Donadea I don't think I would be running now, hopefully this is only a temporary thing and maybe its only a hangover from DCM.

Neady83 · 02-12-2016 09:37AM

jake1970 wrote: »

Since DCM I seem to be slowly losing my running mojo, this week in particular it has being really bad. It took a lot of convincing to get out for a run this week and when I do run it feels like a chore. If I didnt run this week it wouldn't have bothered me and that's not like me. If I wasn't signed up for Donadea I don't think I would be running now, hopefully this is only a temporary thing and maybe its only a hangover from DCM.

I don't think there's one of us on here that hasn't had that feeling Jake and it's completely understandable after the training block you put in for DCM.

Maybe start running sans watch for a bit and pulling back the milage to 3/4 mile fun runs? It might bring the joy back into the runs?

hot buttered scones · 02-12-2016 03:41PM

jake1970 wrote: »

Monday
6 miles @ 9:06m/m recovery

Tuesday
7 miles @ 8:17m/m General aerobic

Since DCM I seem to be slowly losing my running mojo, this week in particular it has being really bad. It took a lot of convincing to get out for a run this week and when I do run it feels like a chore. If I didnt run this week it wouldn't have bothered me and that's not like me. If I wasn't signed up for Donadea I don't think I would be running now, hopefully this is only a temporary thing and maybe its only a hangover from DCM.

I know the feeling. I'm finding it very hard to get out the door lately myself. The mind is taking a lot longer to recover from DCM and the training than the body. Plus it's freezing out. Role on 2017.

jake1970 · 05-12-2016 06:25PM

Neady83 wrote: »

I don't think there's one of us on here that hasn't had that feeling Jake and it's completely understandable after the training block you put in for DCM.

Maybe start running sans watch for a bit and pulling back the milage to 3/4 mile fun runs? It might bring the joy back into the runs?

If I had half the motivation you seem to have at the moment Neady I would be very happy. I sort of followed your advice over the weekend while I didn't leave the watch at home I didn't really take much notice of it and I also changed things by running a couple of new routes.

Saturday
5.3 miles @ 8:44m/m
So I headed out for this run Saturday afternoon and I decided to do a bit of exploring, I headed down a few roads that I hadn't been down since I was a kid. It was interesting to see how so much had changed over the years.

Sunday
10.4 miles @ 8:43m/m
I decided to take a different route again on Sunday. This was a very hilly route and I found it quite challenging, legs were tired by the I got home.

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I know the feeling. I'm finding it very hard to get out the door lately myself. The mind is taking a lot longer to recover from DCM and the training than the body. Plus it's freezing out. Role on 2017.

My body seems to be taking its time recovering and I feel just so slow maybe that has also added to my lack of motivation.

chickey2 · 05-12-2016 06:48PM

Although I'm sorry to hear about your lack of motivation, I'm kind of glad to hear I'm not the only one! I've been feeling the same since DCM and only ran once last week. I've no advice but if you find a magic cure let us know!

denis b · 05-12-2016 09:23PM

I really struggled last year after DCM '15 and put it down to some form of post event blues after all the highs. Did think at the time that it might be natures way of protecting the body when it needs some downtime. Kind of made sense to me then. No doubt people have very different experiences. You will know when you are ready to go again so enjoy the tourist memory runs for now.

hot buttered scones · 05-12-2016 10:32PM

denis b wrote:

I really struggled last year after DCM '15 and put it down to some form of post event blues after all the highs. Did think at the time that it might be natures way of protecting the body when it needs some downtime. Kind of made sense to me then. No doubt people have very different experiences. You will know when you are ready to go again so enjoy the tourist memory runs for now.

Makes perfect sense. I'm in the same place at the moment myself. I'm coming around to idea that we all need an "off season".

Younganne · 05-12-2016 10:55PM

It will all fall into place for you jake and I think varying your route will definitely help. 5th run in December and I've 5 different routes so far. Now 2 were in the Phoenix park but different route and on the trails today!! Will have to get inventive in the park tomorrow!!:D

jake1970 · 06-12-2016 09:32PM

chickey2 wrote: »

Although I'm sorry to hear about your lack of motivation, I'm kind of glad to hear I'm not the only one! I've been feeling the same since DCM and only ran once last week. I've no advice but if you find a magic cure let us know!

denis b wrote: »

I really struggled last year after DCM '15 and put it down to some form of post event blues after all the highs. Did think at the time that it might be natures way of protecting the body when it needs some downtime. Kind of made sense to me then. No doubt people have very different experiences. You will know when you are ready to go again so enjoy the tourist memory runs for now.

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Makes perfect sense. I'm in the same place at the moment myself. I'm coming around to idea that we all need an "off season".

Younganne wrote: »

It will all fall into place for you jake and I think varying your route will definitely help. 5th run in December and I've 5 different routes so far. Now 2 were in the Phoenix park but different route and on the trails today!! Will have to get inventive in the park tomorrow!!:D

It is nice to know that I am not the only one that has or is experiencing this malaise and hopefully its only a matter of time before it all falls back into place after all its only 9 weeks from Saturday till Donadea:eek:

jake1970 · 08-12-2016 11:00PM

Tuesday
9.3 miles @ 8:17m/m General aerobic
Managed to find a new road that I haven't been down before but I will explore at the weekend on my long run. I threw in a mile @MP just to see what it would be like and it was tough:(

Wednesday
5.2 miles @ 9:07m/m recovery

Thursday
9 miles @ 8:19 m/m General aerobic
Glorious morning for a run which included 8 x 100m strides. No zip in the legs when doing the strides. I am a bit concerned about my loss of speed but I think that the problem may be that since DCM my quads are a bit tight but I thought that it might be just fatigue and that they would eventually come around so I think its time to ring the Physio.

El Caballo · 10-12-2016 08:09AM

My advice would be to not freak out about losing speed after a marathon, when you have being focusing on running miles and specific marathon pace, you will have neglected speedwork in that time and as the saying goes, use it or lose it. It's not gone permanently, our body doesn't work like that but it just needs to be retrained again to run fast which will take time and work to get back. Strides are good for that and a few shorter workouts of 200/400's will also help to bring it back. Think of it this way, if you were training for a good 1500 time for a couple of months, you wouldn't expect to have the endurance to run a good marathon a few weeks later, in fact a slow 20 miler would probably be agony and a grind which is pretty much the same concept.

It will take time but your speed will come back with practice. It may feel tough at the start but everyweek, it will become more natural again until you start asking yourself "where's my marathon endurance gone gone":p and you have to start building that up again.

jake1970 · 12-12-2016 11:06PM

El Caballo wrote: »

My advice would be to not freak out about losing speed after a marathon, when you have being focusing on running miles and specific marathon pace, you will have neglected speedwork in that time and as the saying goes, use it or lose it. It's not gone permanently, our body doesn't work like that but it just needs to be retrained again to run fast which will take time and work to get back. Strides are good for that and a few shorter workouts of 200/400's will also help to bring it back. Think of it this way, if you were training for a good 1500 time for a couple of months, you wouldn't expect to have the endurance to run a good marathon a few weeks later, in fact a slow 20 miler would probably be agony and a grind which is pretty much the same concept.

It will take time but your speed will come back with practice. It may feel tough at the start but everyweek, it will become more natural again until you start asking yourself "where's my marathon endurance gone gone":p and you have to start building that up again.

That is reassuring to know that my speed will come back. But unfortunately after DCM last year my speed never returned to its previous level, maybe I just didnt train hard enough:). Once I get Donadea out of the way I will then turn my attention back to some speed work and hopefully pick up a few PBs over the shorter distances in 2017.

jake1970 · 12-12-2016 11:55PM

Saturday
13.1 miles @ 8:21m/m
I had found a new route to run on Tuesday so I decided to explore it further on todays run but it turned out to be a dead end:( I had checked it out on a map and it looked like a through road but I must have taken a wrong turn but it was an enjoyable run and I finished it with a fast last mile(7:47m/m)

Sunday
4.1 miles @ 9:19m/m Recovery.
Surprisingly to me my legs were very stiff after Saturdays run, maybe it was because it was my longest run since DCM and I ran it a bit fast but the legs were not happy.

El Caballo · 13-12-2016 12:33AM

jake1970 wrote: »

That is reassuring to know that my speed will come back. But unfortunately after DCM last year my speed never returned to its previous level, maybe I just didnt train hard enough:). Once I get Donadea out of the way I will then turn my attention back to some speed work and hopefully pick up a few PBs over the shorter distances in 2017.

I don't think it has anything to do with not training hard enough. I've followed your training since the day you started posting in the novice thread and your training over the last year and a half has been fantastic in my opinion, the results that you have had prove it so I hope you are not interpreting my post as saying that as that wasn't my intention.

Anyway, you will probably hate me for saying this but you just ran a cracking marathon not too long ago, cut yourself some slack and take a week or two off and enjoy the break. I understand that this may scupper your plans of Donedea but maybe there's more to be gained from some downtime right now. Just a thought

jake1970 · 13-12-2016 10:51AM

El Caballo wrote: »

I don't think it has anything to do with not training hard enough. I've followed your training since the day you started posting in the novice thread and your training over the last year and a half has been fantastic in my opinion, the results that you have had prove it so I hope you are not interpreting my post as saying that as that wasn't my intention.

Anyway, you will probably hate me for saying this but you just ran a cracking marathon not too long ago, cut yourself some slack and take a week or two off and enjoy the break. I understand that this may scupper your plans of Donedea but maybe there's more to be gained from some downtime right now. Just a thought

No that wasnt my interpretation at all, my comment about not training hard enough was meant to be a dig at myself. I see other runners make great gains after they run marathons and I thought after my first marathon that I would make great gains over 5 and 10k distances too and I am disappointed that it didnt happen. I think I have to be a bit more patient.

I think you are right about taking a week or two off. Getting motivated to go for a run is very hard lately and I am going to take next week off. My initial plan for Donadea is long gone and now it looks like the plan will be just to get around before the 5 hour cut off but I am starting to think now that running it might not be the best idea.

healy1835 · 13-12-2016 05:11PM

jake1970 wrote: »

No that wasnt my interpretation at all, my comment about not training hard enough was meant to be a dig at myself. I see other runners make great gains after they run marathons and I thought after my first marathon that I would make great gains over 5 and 10k distances too and I am disappointed that it didnt happen. I think I have to be a bit more patient.

I think you are right about taking a week or two off. Getting motivated to go for a run is very hard lately and I am going to take next week off. My initial plan for Donadea is long gone and now it looks like the plan will be just to get around before the 5 hour cut off but I am starting to think now that running it might not be the best idea.

Although I wouldn't have anywhere near the experience that most on here have, I'd be thinking along the lines of not doing Donadea. I know it's local to you and would be another nice one ticked off the list, but I think with the way you're feeling right now, maybe it's best to just build a good base and focus on some shorter distances and go again next autumn at a marathon. Don't forget you're still coming off a PB at the DCM, and maybe a year between marathons would be the way to go to achieve the sub 3:10 (or faster

), rather than a heavy enough programme for 50k and then facing into another marathon programme.

jake1970 · 14-12-2016 09:10AM

healy1835 wrote: »

Although I wouldn't have anywhere near the experience that most on here have, I'd be thinking along the lines of not doing Donadea. I know it's local to you and would be another nice one ticked off the list, but I think with the way you're feeling right now, maybe it's best to just build a good base and focus on some shorter distances and go again next autumn at a marathon. Don't forget you're still coming off a PB at the DCM, and maybe a year between marathons would be the way to go to achieve the sub 3:10 (or faster ), rather than a heavy enough programme for 50k and then facing into another marathon programme.

Not doing Donadea is something I am considering. I will take next week off and I have a physio appointment for Friday for a sports massage and after that I will make a decision on Donadea. You are right when you say its on my list but if I dont do it this time it will still be on that list.

Congrats on your good news regrading Berlin.

Younganne · 14-12-2016 10:09PM

jake1970 wrote: »

Not doing Donadea is something I am considering. I will take next week off and I have a physio appointment for Friday for a sports massage and after that I will make a decision on Donadea. You are right when you say its on my list but if I dont do it this time it will still be on that list.

Have a bit of down time over the Christmas and i bet you'll be mad to get out running again. Think Dec 31 is cut off date for deferral(but i could be wrong) but itf its not for you this time, no point forcing it!!

My Log on the Run

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