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Man & Woman found dead in Mayo

135

Comments

  • #62
    Balagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    I'm so disappointed with myself. I was led by the reports and came to the conclusion their son was to blame.
    I don't believe it was accurately reported. Again we saw the father being perceived as some saintly person, with little to no mention of the son in majority of the earlier reports.

    It's appalling.

    We desperately need to improve mental health in this country. And fast.

    You were not alone in jumping to the wrong conclusion, what with the talk of 'saints'. Nobody is a saint. We need to grow up.


  • #63
    Balagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    Guess who else apparently reached the wrong conclusion?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/officers-tasered-injured-son-bf7pjd5kp Intro only as Sunday Times behind a paywall.


  • #64
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,127 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Balagan wrote: »
    Guess who else apparently reached the wrong conclusion?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/officers-tasered-injured-son-bf7pjd5kp Intro only as Sunday Times behind a paywall.

    Christ that's horrendous. And reported in the British media first - WTF are the Irish media for? This is the second time now we've had reports of the saintly father who totally unexpectedly murdered his wife (and possibly attempted to kill his son), have they learned nothing about maintaining a certain professional objectivity until the facts come out?

    I'm beginning to believe it can only be deliberate - a "soothing narrative" put out immediately, all smoothed off so nobody worries unduly.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #65
    fergiesfolly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭fergiesfolly


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    There is no one convicting any one of anything.

    How do you know no one here does not know the family ? & I didn't see anybody deciding anything, people are giving there opinion about a tragedy that is all over the media and not for the first time.

    The facts now are as related by the Garda that the Women was bludgeoned to death, the son was also bludgeoned and left for dead, and the man killed himself by drinking poison .

    The garda have ruled out the son and the mother is not a suspect. How is that idle gossip & misinformed hypothesis ?

    If your so concerned why don't you start a thread about mental health and while your at it ask can you become a moderator here. Then you can close all the threads you want.

    And I can bet you 10k euro that if it was our much talked about Travellers community somewhere involved there be 100 pages here on it.

    Did you not read the first couple of pages of this thread??!
    At least one poster suggesting the son doing it and no-one disagreed.
    And several more went on about the victim shouldn't be buried with the (alleged) murderer.
    Like they know the wishes or thoughts of the family.

    I have no desire to become a moderator and there's already more than one well followed thread on mental health here, written by people who know a lot more about it than I do.

    And what the flying fig does the travelling community have to do with any of this??!!??


  • #66
    Balagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Christ that's horrendous. And reported in the British media first - WTF are the Irish media for? This is the second time now we've had reports of the saintly father who totally unexpectedly murdered his wife (and possibly attempted to kill his son), have they learned nothing about maintaining a certain professional objectivity until the facts come out?

    I'm beginning to believe it can only be deliberate - a "soothing narrative" put out immediately, all smoothed off so nobody worries unduly.

    Turns out the tasering was in fact reported days ago in The Irish Sun
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/7255685/Elderly-couple-murdered-with-iron-bar-at-remote-cottage-in-Co-Mayo.html


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  • #67
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,127 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Balagan wrote: »
    Turns out the tasering was in fact reported days ago in The Irish Sun
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/7255685/Elderly-couple-murdered-with-iron-bar-at-remote-cottage-in-Co-Mayo.html

    1. Since when is The Irish Sun an Irish newspaper? It's a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Sun that didn't even have its own website until a few years ago. :rolleyes:

    2. The way the incident is presented implies the son may have been the murderer and actually says the guards "had to" taser him. That now seems like very poor journalism - though unsurprising from The Sun (either edition) which is a Murdoch rag.

    Have you forgotten the Sun's coverage of the Hillsborough Stadium and the "Gotcha" headline over the sinking of the General Belgrano? Sticking the word "Irish" in the title is little more than a facade.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #68
    rgace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 479 ✭✭rgace


    volchitsa wrote: »
    1. Since when is The Irish Sun an Irish newspaper? It's a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Sun that didn't even have its own website until a few years ago. :rolleyes:

    2. The way the incident is presented implies the son may have been the murderer and actually says the guards "had to" taser him. That now seems like very poor journalism - though unsurprising from The Sun (either edition) which is a Murdoch rag.

    Have you forgotten the Sun's coverage of the Hillsborough Stadium and the "Gotcha" headline over the sinking of the General Belgrano? Sticking the word "Irish" in the title is little more than a facade.


    Ya, The Sun is a disgusting, pathetic excuse for a newspaper.....but you were still wrong.


  • #69
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    seamus wrote: »
    These kinds of stories are nothing to do with safety. Usually it's a child (almost always male) who's been struggling with mental illness for many years and may or may not have been abused by his parents, or at the very least has not been well assisted by his parents.
    Stories will abound about them being a lovely family with no apparent issues - they always are.

    The murderer's final act is one of anger where they take their own life and their parents'.

    It's a common struggle tbh - parents find it very difficult to compartmentalise feelings about their children and accept when things are not "normal" and outside assistance is required. Instead they try to "fix" it themselves. In the case of a mentally ill person, this may lead to direct conflict between the parent and child and a breakdown in the relationship.
    After years of the parents trying to "do what's right" for their child, they've accidentally become a pseudo prison officer in their own home and the mentally ill child's condition has continually worsened without professional help. To the point where things like this happen.

    I doubt it is just an Irish thing, though we are incredibly slow in this country to even dare suggest that a child may need help. Even nurses and doctors are very slow to say anything. A relative of my wife has a child who is on the spectrum, everyone's pretty sure of it. But no-one would even dare suggest they go get him assessed, lest the family get upset and stop talking to them.

    I sincerely hope the son (should he hopefully recover from his serious injuries) never happens to come across this speculative half-arsed ignorant post.


  • #70
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    I sincerely hope the son (should he hopefully recover from his serious injuries) never happens to come across this speculative half-arsed ignorant post.
    You realise that by quoting the post you've made that more likely? Even if the poster decides to delete it, your quote won't disappear unless a mod or you yourself does it.


  • #71
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,127 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    rgace wrote: »
    Ya, The Sun is a disgusting, pathetic excuse for a newspaper.....but you were still wrong.

    How? The Irish Sun is not an Irish newspaper. It's owned by Murdoch FFS.

    And it's not enough to have mentioned the incident when the spin put on it was to make it look more like the son was the killer : the tasering matters because they attacked an injured victim. The IS presented the incident very differently.

    That actually proves my point about Irish journalism, only in the case of the Sun there's an added element of the worst British tabloid press as well - they jumped to conclusions and wrote their coverage accordingly. "The saintly father killed by the unstable adopted son" - truly great gutter journalism. (So maybe they missed the "saintly" part. They'll be annoyed about that.)

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • #72
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    You realise that by quoting the post you've made that more likely? Even if the poster decides to delete it, your quote won't disappear unless a mod or you yourself does it.

    Well, I'm sure the Mod in his or her infinite wisdom will also remove my post if that happens to be the case.


  • #73
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,127 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Balagan wrote: »
    You were not alone in jumping to the wrong conclusion, what with the talk of 'saints'. Nobody is a saint. We need to grow up.

    That's true, but more pressingly, when somebody murders someone, even if it's "only" their wife or children, we need to accept that any previous impression of goodness and normality, never mind saintliness, may well have been wrong.

    If it turns out that the killer had some sort of catastrophic breakdown and had lost his grasp on reality, then fair enough, we can say it was totally out of character and so on - but we've seen enough of these killings now to know that this mustn't be the default assumption. That is a comforting lie we tell ourselves, IMO. And most importantly, that probably makes it more likely that someone else will be inspired to do the same thing.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #74
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    You realise that by quoting the post you've made that more likely? Even if the poster decides to delete it, your quote won't disappear unless a mod or you yourself does it.
    I won't delete it. Firstly because deleting the post doesn't erase the fact that I made an erroneous assumption and plenty of people saw that error.

    And secondly because in the more general sense I feel the content of the post still stands on its own.


  • #75
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    And sadly as I suspected, a joint funeral is being held as a "joint tragedy".

    If I was the son and I recovered, there is no way in Hell I'm mourning my mother next to the b*****d who murdered her.


  • #76
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    volchitsa wrote: »
    That's true, but more pressingly, when somebody murders someone, even if it's "only" their wife or children, we need to accept that any previous impression of goodness and normality, never mind saintliness, may well have been wrong.

    If it turns out that the killer had some sort of catastrophic breakdown and had lost his grasp on reality, then fair enough, we can say it was totally out of character and so on - but we've seen enough of these killings now to know that this mustn't be the default assumption. That is a comforting lie we tell ourselves, IMO. And most importantly, that probably makes it more likely that someone else will be inspired to do the same thing.

    Could not agree more - I'm sick to death of "lovely quiet GAA men" being excused murdering their family.


  • #77
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    And sadly as I suspected, a joint funeral is being held as a "joint tragedy".

    If I was the son and I recovered, there is no way in Hell I'm mourning my mother next to the b*****d who murdered her.

    These people must be buried. The son isn't able to organise the funeral. The siblings of the dead couple have organised it
    Do you think the priest should have refused the request to officiate? How would that be helpful?


  • #78
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    fits wrote: »
    The gardai would bever have called it suicide if a successful suicide attempt had not occurred. Language is important. The case was accurately reported in my view, people just didnt 'listen' to what was being said.

    This is the thing. People see what they want to see, read what they want to read, jump to conclusions then cry that they were misled.
    In future wait until facts are available before condemning anyone


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    And sadly as I suspected, a joint funeral is being held as a "joint tragedy".

    If I was the son and I recovered, there is no way in Hell I'm mourning my mother next to the b*****d who murdered her.

    Maybe Im being naiive, but if there is a husband out there who is even considering murdering his wife, family and then himself, do these joint funerals, and language like "tragic couple" only go on to strengthen their resolve. "If I do it, I'll still be considered a hero by the community".

    Personally I think the murderer in a murder suicide should be buried in an unmarked grave somewhere, he should be vilified, he should be disgraced, so anyone else even contemplating doing this realizes they will be hated afterwards. It might have zero impact, but if it made one guy question his actions, it'd be worth it.


  • #80
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    infogiver wrote: »
    These people must be buried. The son isn't able to organise the funeral. The siblings of the dead couple have organised it
    Do you think the priest should have refused the request to officiate? How would that be helpful?

    An unmarked grave should be located.

    No way should a murderer EVER be given the same treatment as their victim.

    I feel for that poor son.


  • #81
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Maybe Im being naiive, but if there is a husband out there who is even considering murdering his wife, family and then himself, do these joint funerals, and language like "tragic couple" only go on to strengthen their resolve. "If I do it, I'll still be considered a hero by the community".

    Personally I think the murderer in a murder suicide should be buried in an unmarked grave somewhere, he should be vilified, he should be disgraced, so anyone else even contemplating doing this realizes they will be hated afterwards. It might have zero impact, but if it made one guy question his actions, it'd be worth it.

    The thing is that's your feeling. The only people who get to decide where and how and with whom anyone is buried are the immediate family.


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  • #82
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    infogiver wrote: »
    The thing is that's your feeling. The only people who get to decide where and how and with whom anyone is buried are the immediate family.

    Well, it shouldn't be.

    You murder anyone, especially a loved one and you forego any human treatment.

    Should be covered in lime and dumped with the trash.


  • #83
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    An unmarked grave should be located.

    No way should a murderer EVER be given the same treatment as their victim.

    I feel for that poor son.

    But that's NOT what the immediate family of these dead people wanted.
    Do you think that funeral arrangements should be a matter for the general public ( who know nothing of the dead people) to decide? Why?


  • #84
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    Well, it shouldn't be.

    You murder anyone, especially a loved one and you forego any human treatment.

    Should be covered in lime and dumped with the trash.

    There has been no inquest, no murder trial, nothing .
    Yet You have, personally, having no more information then any of us here, decided that the wishes of the grieving devastated shocked family should be completely disregarded and, to satisfy your desire for your completely irrational outrage, this dead man dumped in a lime pit.
    Tell me, should all funeral arrangements be referred to some kind of court of public opinion before being approved?


  • #85
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    infogiver wrote: »
    There has been no inquest, no murder trial, nothing .
    I'm also not entirely sure what one would expect to achieve by treating someone's body with contempt. They're dead and gone. It's not like you're punishing them in any way.


  • #86
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm also not entirely sure what one would expect to achieve by treating someone's body with contempt. They're dead and gone. It's not like you're punishing them in any way.

    Because as an earlier poster said about the Hawe case - by treating murderer and victim the same, you are negating her suffering and death and that of the children.


  • #87
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Mortpourvelo wrote: »
    Because as an earlier poster said about the Hawe case - by treating murderer and victim the same, you are negating her suffering and death and that of the children.

    You keep repeating this but you won't explain why you think that the grieving family's wishes should be completely disregarded in favour of your personal feelings?


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    infogiver wrote: »
    The thing is that's your feeling. The only people who get to decide where and how and with whom anyone is buried are the immediate family.

    Yes thats my opinion. This is a discussion forum. Opinions are encouraged.

    The immediate family in this case is the son who is recovering from brain surgery due to injuries his father inflicted on him. We don't know if the son was even consulted.

    I thought my point was pretty clear though.

    I wonder did Tom Fitzgerald, having seen the funeral Alan Hawe got, with the talk of him being a pillar of the community etc. etc, think "Great, I'll get a nice funeral as well".


  • #89
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yes thats my opinion. This is a discussion forum. Opinions are encouraged.

    The immediate family in this case is the son who is recovering from brain surgery due to injuries his father inflicted on him. We don't know if the son was even consulted.

    I thought my point was pretty clear though.

    I wonder did Tom Fitzgerald, having seen the funeral Alan Hawe got, with the talk of him being a pillar of the community etc. etc, think "Great, I'll get a nice funeral as well".

    Absolutely opinions are encouraged, and challenged all the time.
    I don't imagine the son was consulted.
    It's reported that he's fighting for his life.
    Nobody could or should speculate about what someone in his very unfortunate tragic situation would want.
    These people had to be buried and the next in line for consultation were the many siblings of both the dead people.
    Wether you like it or not or approve or not this is the funeral they arranged.
    If it's the case that Mr Fitzgerald watched Alan Hawes funeral and decided to murder his family purely do he would have a pillar of the community funeral then , well, I'm not a psychiatrist but would that not make him insane?


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,242 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Very quiet area. Settled, yeah, yeah.


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  • #91
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm also not entirely sure what one would expect to achieve by treating someone's body with contempt. They're dead and gone. It's not like you're punishing them in any way.

    Punishing the grieving family in reality.
    For some strange reason this seems to be a reasonable outcome for lots of boardsies posting on this thread


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