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Why will the Govt not hold an "Irexit" referendum?

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Comments

  • #32
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    political analyst wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ireland isn't good enough to go on its own. It has always had someone rule it. Irish kings, Kingdom of England, British Empire, European Union.
    It wouldn't be on its own. It could have an economic union with the UK.
    You should rejoin the Union and become a stronger force, make Ireland great again. You never should have left.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    political analyst wrote: »
    It wouldn't be on its own. It could have an economic union with the UK.

    It would have to negotiate a separate trade agreement with every country it wants to trade with. That will take time, and cost a fortune.


  • #34
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    political analyst wrote: »
    In the aftermath of the vote by the majority of the UK electorate in favour of their country leaving the EU, why won't our government give us the opportunity to decide whether or not our country should remain in the EU?

    Surely, "Irexit" would be beneficial to us because it would save us a lot of money in terms of our financial contribution to the EU apparatus and maybe even get the Irish national debt reduced because we might only then have to pay money back to the IMF instead of to the Troika. Furthermore, Ireland could have a new economic relationship with the UK when the UK eventually leaves the EU.

    Rather than leave or stay as a permanent option, our political system should be adapted to the cycles of economics and demographic and contracts.

    For example, every 10 years a vote to remain in the EU or not, reviewed again a period of time later. Local politics like the Taoiseach could be every 12-18 months or whatever.

    Some decisions need to be looked at again periodically to see if the intended purpose is achieved.


  • #35
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    political analyst wrote: »
    It wouldn't be on its own. It could have an economic union with the UK.

    Which would require agreement from the UK. There is no guarantee that such an economic union would be on the table. Also, we would have to put that to referendum as well, if we put EU membership to referendum. If we were to vote to leave the EU, the idea that people would jump into another economic union after leaving one, doesn't strike me as likely.

    Also, it make 0 sense to leave an economic union that is far larger, to join another that is far smaller. What does that achieve?

    Sorry, but you suggestions strike me as insane and not particularly well taught out. We are not the UK, and they will likely have to deal with the fall out of leaving the EU for decades, years of uncertainty and likely to cause long term economic damage. Even if they do pull it off and make it work, it won't happen over night. The UK a far large economy will have a hell of a time trying to make Brexit a success.


  • #36
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    political analyst wrote: »
    It wouldn't be on its own. It could have an economic union with the UK.

    So, either a union with the EU or one with the UK?

    The one with the UK didn't work out that fantastically last time around, but overall Ireland did so far profit nicely from being in the EU.
    I know which one I would stick with, personally.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The day after we left the French would declare us a tax haven and slap all sorts of taxes on anything coming from this country (think Apple, Pfizer, Medtronic, Dell, Intel, Google).

    The would be taxed out of the country and we would be left trying to sell beer, beef and biscuits to the British.


  • #38
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    You should rejoin the Union.

    I think that's even less likely than Irexit


  • #39
    political analyst
    Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Shenshen wrote: »
    So, either a union with the EU or one with the UK?

    The one with the UK didn't work out that fantastically last time around, but overall Ireland did so far profit nicely from being in the EU.
    I know which one I would stick with, personally.

    It would be an economic union, not a political one. There is a difference.


  • #40
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    wes wrote: »
    There is very little demand for it.

    Also, just because the UK decided to engage in self harm, for a bunch of nonsense reasons, doesn't mean we should follow suit, and cause even greater harm to ourselves.

    BTW, the UK is a far larger economy and they have taken a hell of knock, and they aren't even out yet. It would likely be far worse for us.

    yes, but think of all the Swans it will save


  • #41
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    political analyst wrote: »
    It would be an economic union, not a political one. There is a difference.

    Economic union? First we will see what has been left of English economy in 2019.


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  • #42
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    political analyst wrote: »
    It would be an economic union, not a political one. There is a difference.

    We would be wholly dominated by the British. Our economy would be obliterated, with the multi nationals leaving, and the EU would be more than happy to make an example of us. We wouldn't have any hope of getting a exit deal, that would benefit us. We would ruining our economy for no reason what so ever. You have yet to provide a realistic argument as to how we would possibly proper outside of the EU.

    The only big idea is economic union with the UK, which make 0 sense after leaving the EU. Why join another economic union that is far smaller than the one we just left? Your idea doesn't add up at all.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    Because the vast majority of Irish people are pro European Union.

    Why are Irish people pro EU?

    We like being told what to do.

    Or, to state the obvious: we don't want to be at the mercy of the Brits again.


  • #44
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or, to state the obvious: we don't want to be at the mercy of the Brits again.

    If it's not the British telling us what to do, its the Catholic church, and if its not the Catholic church then its the E.U/a large government telling us what to do. Just another vacumn for another large, powerful entity.

    We're not the rebels we like to think we are.


  • #45
    Edups
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Edups


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    If it's not the British telling us what to do, its the Catholic church, and if its not the Catholic church then its the E.U/a large government telling us what to do. Just another vacumn for another large, powerful entity.

    We're not the rebels we like to think we are.

    Then leave?


  • #46
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Edups wrote: »
    Then leave?

    If we leave and the E.U does come apart, we'll be one of the very last countries to do so.


  • #47
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    So sleepy.


  • #48
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    political analyst wrote: »
    What about an economic agreement between Ireland and the UK?

    And what are you putting on the table? Your uncompetitive corporate tax rate up for discussion? How about those heavily subsidised tech jobs with secret tax arrangements to attract them?

    What's in it for the UK?


  • #49
    wally79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,996 ✭✭✭wally79


    What have the romans ever done for us?


  • #50
    Birneybau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    political analyst wrote: »
    In the aftermath of the vote by the majority of the UK electorate in favour of their country leaving the EU, why won't our government give us the opportunity to decide whether or not our country should remain in the EU?

    Surely, "Irexit" would be beneficial to us because it would save us a lot of money in terms of our financial contribution to the EU apparatus and maybe even get the Irish national debt reduced because we might only then have to pay money back to the IMF instead of to the Troika. Furthermore, Ireland could have a new economic relationship with the UK when the UK eventually leaves the EU.

    Are you really a political analyst? Doesn't seem it.


  • #51
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,867 ✭✭✭touts


    The EU was hamstrung from the moment German Unification was permitted. Germany was always a destabilising influence in the heart of Europe ever since Bismarck created it. 3 wars between 1870 and 1945 and it was finally broken up. It should have been left that way in 1989 with East Germany joining the EC as an independent country. The EU was never going to work once all the political and economic levers were switched to favour Germany. You could either do the EU or German Reunification and reconstruction but not both at pretty much the same time. Britain is just the first out the door. Other EU nations (Greece, Holland even France) could well follow in the next decade.

    That said while the EU was a step too far too soon the EC was not. A trading block with common economic policies should be retained and that is central to Ireland's interests.

    So should we now leave. No. We should stick it out and see if the EU can be reformed because sooner or later it will be (it just might take another country or two to leave to shake things up). When that happens we are better off inside the tent than asking to get back in on perhaps less favourable terms.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Birneybau wrote: »
    Are you really a political analyst? Doesn't seem it.
    Political science student who has to write an essay for college more like.


  • #53
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    political analyst wrote: »
    Then don't post on it.

    Too late.


  • #54
    Edups
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Edups


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    If we leave and the E.U does come apart, we'll be one of the very last countries to do so.

    No, you misunderstood, if you don't like Ireland, leave.


  • #55
    Edups
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Edups


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    Too late.

    You're a renegade, McBain.


  • #56
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Edups wrote: »
    No, you misunderstood, if you don't like Ireland, leave.

    Who said I didn't like Ireland? :confused:


  • #57
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    There isn't demand for one. How about we wait until the UK puts together some form of plan, we'll see how that goes and then we'll talk about it.


  • #58
    political analyst
    Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    touts wrote: »
    The EU was hamstrung from the moment German Unification was permitted. Germany was always a destabilising influence in the heart of Europe ever since Bismarck created it. 3 wars between 1870 and 1945 and it was finally broken up. It should have been left that way in 1989 with East Germany joining the EC as an independent country. The EU was never going to work once all the political and economic levers were switched to favour Germany. You could either do the EU or German Reunification and reconstruction but not both at pretty much the same time. Britain is just the first out the door. Other EU nations (Greece, Holland even France) could well follow in the next decade.

    That said while the EU was a step too far too soon the EC was not. A trading block with common economic policies should be retained and that is central to Ireland's interests.

    So should we now leave. No. We should stick it out and see if the EU can be reformed because sooner or later it will be (it just might take another country or two to leave to shake things up). When that happens we are better off inside the tent than asking to get back in on perhaps less favourable terms.


    In an interview on the two-part documentary about the Taoiseach that was broadcast last week, Noonan said that the Germans were not against retrospective debt relief for Ireland but that their hands were tied because the European Central Bank wouldn't entertain the idea.


  • #59
    Butters1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    I've seen a few polls on this and an 'Irexit' would be overwhelmingly defeated anyway. They don't call one because there is no real political demand to call one in the first place, except from a few outlying SF Tiocfaidh Ar La types who have no idea how economics, trade and representative democracy actually works.

    Also, it sounds like 'erection'.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    political analyst wrote: »

    maybe even get the Irish national debt reduced because we might only then have to pay money back to the IMF instead of to the Troika.

    What a weird and wonderful concept, OP! Why would we as a nation no longer have to service a national debt based solely on the idea that we are no longer so closely associated with the lenders? If you have a mortgage with the Bank of Ireland and you decide to withdraw all your money and close your account there, you think they won't be sending the bailiffs if you stop paying them?


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  • #61
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,782 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I love my Irish AND European Union citizenship.

    A break up of the EU would not be a good thing for our continent.


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