Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Won't someone think of the children

2

Comments

  • #32
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Chocolate girl wrote: »
    I think it depends on the person doing exams. I've two doing exams this year and thankfully their school is not affected. One would be good and can study at home etc but the other one needs the structure of class and would do nothing. Hope it gets sorted soon for the kids sake.


    Well if they won't work or study without someone looking over their head what are they bothering for? They won't succeed at college & won't last in a job if they have not been trained in discipline & self control. As a parent you have responsibility in teaching those core values & that dosn't need a teacher/classroom.


  • #33
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I'd love a day off


  • #34
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    At any company I've worked for the concept of deciding what minor specifics were or were not part of our job usually ended up with that person having a change of heart or seeking opportunities elsewhere.

    The whole dispute is bizzare.

    Surely anything you do at your job is your work..... for which you are paid?


  • #35
    Edups
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Edups


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    I'd love a day off

    Manage to get some sleep?


  • #36
    Chocolate girl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Chocolate girl


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Well if they won't work or study without someone looking over their head what are they bothering for? They won't succeed at college & won't last in a job if they have not been trained in discipline & self control. As a parent you have responsibility in teaching those core values & that dosn't need a teacher/classroom.

    As a parent I have taught those core values. These are teenagers and not all teenagers are perfect and might need some stucture in school and perform better that way. It doesn't mean they won't succeed in college or in a job.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Edups wrote: »
    Manage to get some sleep?

    Not enough!!


  • #38
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Students won't suffer, this aspect of it gets completely blown out of proportion.Results in the LC and JC depend almost entirely by how hard the student works and students don't need the help of teachers to study.

    I think my youngest would disagree - I'm working from home today to supervise him in his studying.....I gather I've scuppered his plans for a late breakfast followed by a leisurely few hours on the PS4.....


  • #39
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Edups wrote: »
    Indeed, but when projects can't be finished in time because they need to finished in school, it does directly affect the student.

    What projects count towards LC results?


  • #40
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    theoneeyedman wrote: »
    Leaving cert students should be allowed attend school, regardless of supervision.
    Vast majority of LC students are over 18. They can get married, drive a car, vote, join the army, drink alcohol, smoke, etc legally, but they can't attend school because teacher isn't available to look over their shoulders during break times.
    It's a ****ing joke

    They are not. Vast majority have just turned 17.


  • #41
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    tonygun wrote: »
    I don't know how long ago you did your leaving, but these days most LC students would be over 18.

    Do children start primary school when they are 6 or 7 now, instead of 5?


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That might explain the unusually long delay getting from Kildare to Dublin Airport this morning. They all must be heading to Newry for the Christmas shopping.

    Isn't it a bit odd that it's the religious run schools that are closed? Island of Saints and Scholars my ar*e.


  • #43
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    whoopsadoodles wrote: »
    Most kids start school now when they're 5 or soon to turn 5. Most kids also do transition year. That makes them 18 doing their leaving. Pretty standard nowadays.

    What the fuck is this "transition" year bullshit? Is it just another year shoe-horned into the 5 years of secondary to give the little darlings more time to "find themselves"?


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    HensVassal wrote: »
    What the fuck is this "transition" year bullshit? Is it just another year shoe-horned into the 5 years of secondary to give the little darlings more time to "find themselves"?

    Both mine did Transition Year. It was wasted on one as they did very little other than go to activity centres and on "tours" which cost a fortune. The second one was much better organised, with first aid, movie making, cooking, good work experience placements, etc and he really gained from it, not least changing his mind as to what he wanted to aim for in College. The second lot funded their own activities from the mini industries they set up, mostly making and selling arts and crafts to fellow students and running a (now banned) tuck shop. They also organised a very successful table quiz and volunteered in a local daycare for the elderly.


  • #45
    fergiesfolly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭fergiesfolly


    If the Dept. of Ed closed the schools, rather than the teachers going on strike, am I right in thinking that the teachers will get paid for sitting at home today?


  • #46
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,082 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    fergiesfolly wrote: »
    If the Dept. of Ed closed the schools, rather than the teachers going on strike, am I right in thinking that the teachers will get paid for sitting at home today?

    Yes. They are available and turning up for work. Why wouldn't they be paid.


  • #47
    Edups
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Edups


    HensVassal wrote: »
    What projects count towards LC results?

    Off the top of my head, woodwork, history and geography, engineering, technical graphics, art...


  • #48
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Edups wrote: »
    Withdrawal of supervision is causing schools to close

    Teachers have withdrawn supervision

    Teachers caused schools to close

    So let's say a school has got subs in to do the S&S instead of the ASTI members... Those ASTI teachers who went to work and are now teaching.... Should they be docked all their days pay?


  • #49
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Chocolate girl wrote: »
    I think it depends on the person doing exams. I've two doing exams this year and thankfully their school is not affected. One would be good and can study at home etc but the other one needs the structure of class and would do nothing. Hope it gets sorted soon for the kids sake.

    Hope it gets sorted for all students (not just exam years)... Also hope it gets sorted for the profession as a whole for years to come, as this affects ALL future students who aren't even in school yet!


  • #50
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    tonygun wrote: »
    I don't know how long ago you did your leaving, but these days most LC students would be over 18.

    My second lad will not be 17 doing his leaving his younger sister will hardly be 17 by the time she gets her results. The number of "kids" at the open night for her first year class that looked like they'll need a pension book by the time the have their leaving cert done was crazy. What is the fascination with endlessly infantilising children currently. Turning 18 after the leaving is one thing but 18/19 doing the leaving as a general rule is crazy.


  • #51
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    At any company I've worked for the concept of deciding what minor specifics were or were not part of our job usually ended up with that person having a change of heart or seeking opportunities elsewhere.

    The whole dispute is bizzare.

    Surely anything you do at your job is your work..... for which you are paid?

    What if yer boss told you to take on extra overtime for 3 years and he'd START to pay you when the 3 years were up. Then when the 3 years ended he just said.... no!

    Now that would be bizarre!


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    What if yer boss told you to take on extra overtime for 3 years and he'd START to pay you when the 3 years were up. Then when the 3 years ended he just said.... no!

    Now that would be bizarre!

    Put a bit of flesh on those bones. If it's that straightforward we should all be marching in the dail to vindicate the rights of ASTI members. If on the other hand there's a bit more to it or another side to the story maybe you'd lay it out for us.


  • #53
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    What if yer boss told you to take on extra overtime for 3 years and he'd START to pay you when the 3 years were up!

    That would be great!

    I work O/T all the time and I don't get paid for, but I get TIL..... not months worth like a teacher does as it's capped.
    The wife works in an environment where working excess hours is "expected" if one wants to 'get ahead'. She gets no quid-pro-quo for working a 10 hour day.

    As I said.... it is very strange that staff in schools get to pick and chose what they consider to be their job while they are in the building.

    For many of us, the boss landing a new responsibility on our desk is certainly not met with strikes & months of 'negotiations'


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    What if yer boss told you to take on extra overtime for 3 years and he'd START to pay you when the 3 years were up. Then when the 3 years ended he just said.... no!

    Now that would be bizarre!

    If it's part of their working day, then it's not overtime. Why is it only the religious run schools that seems to have this problem? The non religious ones are open and working away.


  • #55
    Butters1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If it's part of their working day, then it's not overtime. Why is it only the religious run schools that seems to have this problem? The non religious ones are open and working away.

    It's not specifically religious schools. It's actually down to the ASTI union. They're the ones pushing the strike and they traditionally have the highest concentration of members in the religious schools. Dual union schools are open.


  • #56
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If it's part of their working day, then it's not overtime. Why is it only the religious run schools that seems to have this problem? The non religious ones are open and working away.


    Its nothing to do with religious schools.

    Its to do with whether teachers in schools are part of the asti or the tui unions


    Also, you cant force everyone to do overtime. Pay some people for doing it and not pay others.

    You cant sign an agreement to pay teachers if they do it for 3 free years and then just break that agreement


  • #57
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I think there would be some sympathy for pay equalization. It is unfair that someone starting a job a few years later is paid less just for that but withdrawing s&s is just ridiculous. And everyone knows the option of being paid for s&s was on the table.

    Also as someone who had internal continuous assessment for 12 years I am big fan of it. It encourages regular work which helped enormously to people like me who were relatively capable and very lazy students. Our leaving cert year was not very stressful at all because we knew our internal examination is fairly demanding and if you passed that with a bit of work you should be ok.


  • #58
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If it's part of their working day, then it's not overtime. Why is it only the religious run schools that seems to have this problem? The non religious ones are open and working away.

    My lunch time, both before and after work are NOT part of my working day.

    TUI were formed out of the VEC's so have tie ins with the 3rd level and further education sector.
    TUI are in Lansdowne road.
    ASTI are not.


  • #59
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    That would be great!

    I work O/T all the time and I don't get paid for, but I get TIL..... not months worth like a teacher does as it's capped.
    The wife works in an environment where working excess hours is "expected" if one wants to 'get ahead'. She gets no quid-pro-quo for working a 10 hour day.'

    Believe it or not a lot of teachers do take on extra unpaid work that you never hear about.... or would give credit for.
    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    As I said.... it is very strange that staff in schools get to pick and chose what they consider to be their job while they are in the building.'

    Interesting you find it strange. Perhaps you are unaware as to how it wasn't a case of 'picking and chosing'. It was part of our contract. You work the S&S and you get paid. We did it for free for 3 years then decided not to do it if the govt. werent going to keep to the agreement. And even at that we continued to work for free in Sept. and Nov. past the cut off point.

    Do you accept that the Dept. had known about this since before the summer?
    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    For many of us, the boss landing a new responsibility on our desk is certainly not met with strikes & months of 'negotiations'

    So you have no breaking point then? Even if your boss says they will pay you for it... but then don't.

    As I've said before, I'm going to loose more money than this S&S payment is worth... by standing by a principle.
    The dept were willing to pay strangers indefinitely way over the odds to do it in place of teachers too... so the money is there.
    The dept. would have budgeted years ago to pay out on this S&S as part of the HR agreement... so the money is there.
    The dept. are currently paying TUI teachers to do it... so the money is there.

    Similarly my union has asked me to take a weeks pay hit just to protest for better conditions for junior teachers (aside from the pay cuts we'll be getting because the schools are being closed). And I'll do it..
    Because I'm greedy?


  • #60
    d2ww
    Closed Accounts Posts: 500 ✭✭✭d2ww


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Believe it or not a lot of teachers do take on extra unpaid work that you never hear about.... or would give credit for.



    Interesting you find it strange. Perhaps you are unaware as to how it wasn't a case of 'picking and chosing'. It was part of our contract. You work the S&S and you get paid. We did it for free for 3 years then decided not to do it if the govt. werent going to keep to the agreement. And even at that we continued to work for free in Sept. and Nov. past the cut off point.

    Do you accept that the Dept. had known about this since before the summer?



    So you have no breaking point then? Even if your boss says they will pay you for it... but then don't.

    As I've said before, I'm going to loose more money than this S&S payment is worth... by standing by a principle.
    The dept were willing to pay strangers indefinitely way over the odds to do it in place of teachers too... so the money is there.
    The dept. would have budgeted years ago to pay out on this S&S as part of the HR agreement... so the money is there.
    The dept. are currently paying TUI teachers to do it... so the money is there.

    Similarly my union has asked me to take a weeks pay hit just to protest for better conditions for junior teachers (aside from the pay cuts we'll be getting because the schools are being closed). And I'll do it..
    Because I'm greedy?

    Wasn't it the case that you had the choice at the time to either take a general pay cut, or screw over the new recruits? You choose the latter, so the justice for new teachers line rings a little hollow.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It has the feel of something that is going to be a long dispute and get bitter as he government digs their heels in. An insider was talking on the radio the other day and said there is a lot of very to the left leadership in the INTO who want to ferment agitation, the we are going to get up off knees types. To me there is a lot of irony in a middle class somewhat costed profession using the rhetoric of James Larkin.

    They should get the money back but in the same way as the TUI and INTO


Advertisement
Advertisement