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Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

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Comments

  • #1772
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,874 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I think if you increased the font size by just one more point you'll convert everyone to rabid nationalism.
    Despite the EU's best efforts at removing barriers Ireland is still rabies free.


  • #1773
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,874 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Thread title needs to change for November 5th. Some sort of Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta theme.
    Bonfire night - something something Bonfire of the Vanities


  • #1774
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,874 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    demfad wrote: »
    How do you think £350 million could be found?
    Defence is costing £673m a week.

    Of course the EU isn't about a European army. But if it was than the £8bn that Brexit might save would be have been consumed by increased spending on the military.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defence-budget-increases-for-the-first-time-in-six-years
    1 April 2016 marks the first day that these commitments come into effect with the core defence budget increasing by £800m from the 2015/16 baseline of £34.3bn to £35.1bn. In addition, the MOD will receive £2.1bn from the Joint Security Fund by the end of this Parliament. This means the Defence budget will increase by nearly £5bn to £39.7bn in 2020/21.


  • #1775
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,874 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    jmayo wrote: »
    We have 11 out of a total of 751.

    That is 1.47% of the MEPs
    When the UK leaves we'll get another one and a greater % representation in the EU \o/


    So if our economy goes downhill during the two years of negotiation after Article 50 we can take the UK down with us. Brexiters have to understand that if our backs are to the wall it would be political suicide for our leaders to kowtow to the UK.


  • #1776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Bonfire night - something something Bonfire of the Vanities
    More like - Brexit, May sending a rocket up the EU's hole!


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  • #1777
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Brexit causing a split in the North between the DUP and Sinn Fein if it wasn't split enough as it is. The SDLP might vote against article 50 as Northern Ireland voted against Brexit. I wonder will the SNP also block article 50.

    From the Belfast Telegraph.
    Brexit divisions between the DUP and Sinn Fein have sharpened after the High Court in London ruled Parliament must have a vote before the UK can start the process of leaving the European Union.

    Yesterday's landmark ruling threatened to throw the Government's timetable for the start of formal negotiations into disarray and heightened speculation of a snap general election - for which the DUP says it is already preparing for.

    He also ruled out any Sinn Fein move to end its boycott of the House of Commons, even if its four MPs could make the difference in a crunch vote. The Government has already said it will appeal the verdict to the Supreme Court, with a hearing earmarked for early next month.

    Prime Minister Theresa May is expected to make a statement to MPs on the issue on Monday.

    Officials are already warning that failure to overturn the decision could mean months of delay before Article 50 is triggered to begin up to two years of negotiations on the terms of the UK's new relationship with Europe.

    DUP MP Sammy Wilson said the verdict will be a great comfort to the "arrogant anti-democratic Remainers", which they will use "to the full".

    "The losers in the referendum have been seeking for a weapon to carry out a prolonged guerrilla war," he said.

    "They want prolonged debates on the Government negotiating position, a running commentary on the negotiations, and have demanded commitments to maintain the free movement of people and the single market - the most damaging aspects of our membership."

    But Mr McGuinness said: "Brexit will have a massive impact on every one of Ireland's 32 counties. So we believe that any decisions that need to be taken about the future of this island should be taken between the Assembly and the Dail."

    As Taoiseach Enda Kenny visited Stormont for discussions on the EU withdrawal crisis, Assembly Opposition parties also faced in different directions.

    More: Next stop the Supreme Court as speculation mounts Prime Minister could go to the country early

    The Ulster Unionist Pary said if the appeal was unsuccessful its two MPs - Tom Elliott and Danny Kinahan - will still vote for the Article 50 mechanism to go ahead, while the SDLP said its three MPs - Mark Durkan, Alasdair McDonnell and Margaret Ritchie - will vote to support the majority in NI (56%) who wanted to stay in the EU.

    Mr Durkan said: "The idea seemed to be that Parliament had no role whatsoever and could entrust these matters entirely to the Royal Prerogative and those who are meant to be leading the process.

    "That would constitute a request for us to commit a dereliction of duty."

    Alliance MLA Stephen Farry said if the Supreme Court upheld the verdict the issue of legislative consent motions from the devolved adminstrations in Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff would arise - and urged the Executive to urgently seek legal advice.

    TUV leader Jim Allister said the will of the UK electorate had been ignored.

    "Whatever of the court's motivation, it is clear those who took this case saw it as a vehicle to thwart the will of the people so clearly expressed in the referendum," he said.

    "In that they must not succeed."

    The verdict in London came less than a month after the High Court in Belfast dismissed the UK's first Brexit legal challenge.


  • #1778
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    robindch wrote: »
    While the comment was certainly open to grand misinterpretation, I don't immediately see that she was wishing illness upon kids per se, but instead wishing that the people who voted to remove EU-originated research and funds could see first hand what their vote actually causes.
    Here's what she said.
    "I want people who are leaving(want to leave) to one day unfortunately have a child who needs that treatment but it's not there because collaboration's not been there."

    There it is in black and white, she's talking about punishing voters who chose to leave.
    This is from a health professional who works with sick children.
    She could have easily used the commonly accepted phrase "I hope they never have a child that needs.....".
    It's indicative of the toxic level of the Brexit debate that exists on both sides.
    You want more proof look at post #1708, more ignorant bile.
    But hey it's good for a thanks or two on this thread.


  • #1779
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Brexit causing a split in the North between the DUP and Sinn Fein if it wasn't split enough as it is. The SDLP might vote against article 50 as Northern Ireland voted against Brexit. I wonder will the SNP also block article 50.

    From the Belfast Telegraph.

    The DUP and Alister preaching about respecting referendums. I knew there would be hilarity.


  • #1780
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Brexit causing a split in the North between the DUP and Sinn Fein if it wasn't split enough as it is. The SDLP might vote against article 50 as Northern Ireland voted against Brexit. I wonder will the SNP also block article 50.

    Maybe,.maybe not but the Tories have a majority so what does it matter?


  • #1781
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Maybe,.maybe not but the Tories have a majority so what does it matter?

    Possibility that it will be a free vote again. It was for calling the ref.


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  • #1782
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Possibility that it will be a free vote again. It was for calling the ref.

    No chance of there being a free vote.


  • #1783
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No chance of there being a free vote.

    Using the whip will bring the Tories back to the reason the stupid referendum was called in the first place - internal division. So who knows.


  • #1784
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Here's what she said.
    "I want people who are leaving(want to leave) to one day unfortunately have a child who needs that treatment but it's not there because collaboration's not been there."

    There it is in black and white, she's talking about punishing voters who chose to leave.
    This is from a health professional who works with sick children.
    She could have easily used the commonly accepted phrase "I hope they never have a child that needs.....".
    It's indicative of the toxic level of the Brexit debate that exists on both sides.
    You want more proof look at post #1708, more ignorant bile.
    But hey it's good for a thanks or two on this thread.


    I disagree with how she said it but I work in research and although I don't work in medical research I have many friends that do. The people who voted leave were told that a vote to leave would have a negative effect on science collaboration and science funding.

    My lab already will lose funding from the 2020 Horizon funds from the EU. A few hundred thousand. We'll have that replaced by the American government but the UK haven't stepped up to the mark.

    The leave voters have used a number of BS reasons to cut medical research in the UK and make it far harder to advance knowledge and save lives.


  • #1785
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Maybe,.maybe not but the Tories have a majority so what does it matter?
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No chance of there being a free vote.

    Who knows.


  • #1786
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Using the whip will bring the Tories back to the reason the stupid referendum was called in the first place - internal division. So who knows.

    There will be internal division regardless.

    The whip will be used.


  • #1787
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Who knows.

    Anyone with half a brain. If I'm wrong fair enough. I also said Trump wouldn't be prez...


  • #1788
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Anyone with half a brain. If I'm wrong fair enough. I also said Trump wouldn't be prez...

    I can't predict the future bud. I think it's silly to assert certainty over this.


  • #1789
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There will be internal division regardless.

    The whip will be used.

    Nobody thought Cameron would be stupid enough to call a referendum. Who knows what pressure it will cause. May will, like all Tories, put her political survival and the Tories first.


  • #1790
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I can't predict the future bud. I think it's silly to assert certainty over this.

    You don't need to predict the future to rule out unlikely scenarios.


  • #1791
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Nobody thought Cameron would be stupid enough to call a referendum. Who knows what pressure it will cause. May will, like all Tories, put her political survival and the Tories first.

    Agreed. And May's political survival rests on leaving the EU. She's nailed her colors to the mast on this issue.


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  • #1792
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Agreed. And May's political survival rests on leaving the EU. She's nailed her colors to the mast on this issue.

    :D she leads a majority of MPs who don't want to leave.

    Her 'colours' are that she will do what she is told to do. The courts have said it is Parliament who is sovereign in this.


  • #1793
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    :D she leads a majority of MPs who don't want to leave.

    Hence why the whip will be used.


  • #1794
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Hence why the whip will be used.

    I personally think she will go to country first. Secure her position first.

    It would also clarify if people still want to leave, having had a taste of what will happen.


  • #1795
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I personally think she will go to country first. Secure her position first.

    I don't think so, call another GE and there's no guarantee that the tories will still have a majority. All she needs to do is force one vote.


  • #1796
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    demfad wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Awaiting George Osbornes emergency budget...

    Both sides said dubious things to try and win. Although I think 350 million a week could be spent on the health service after we leave the EU. Just requires the political will to do it, it isn't an impossibility.

    How do you think 350 million could be found?

    If it's a hard Brexit then collossal amounts of money will have to be paid to Nissan and their Car manufacturing amigos, and also to the other big industries to offset tax, country of origin losses etc.
    Medium size and small business will be hit badly with no sweetheart deals there. With no trade deals taking decades to be in place and all of them worse than what the UK currently enjoys then GDP will stagnate or recede.
    WHERE do you see this 350 million a week coming from? Cloud Cuckoo Land?
    If you go for a soft Brexit, then the UK is in the single market, will obey the rules (with no say) and be under the ECJ. They wil also pay in as they pay in now (or more) so the 350 million is mute.
    Considering 19 billion is spent of our own money to the EU every year, I think investing more money in the NHS is certainly doable.


  • #1797
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Who knows.

    Anyone with half a brain. If I'm wrong fair enough. I also said Trump wouldn't be prez...

    Trump is going to win on Tuesday, the time of the Establishment is over.


  • #1798
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,110 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Trump is going to win on Tuesday, the time of the Establishment is over.

    An arch capitalist coming to power in the US is the end of the establishment? :)

    You a Trump supporter too?


  • #1799
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Trump is going to win on Tuesday, the time of the Establishment is over.
    Yeah because a billionaire white male is sooo anti establishment.


  • #1800
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Trump is going to win on Tuesday, the time of the Establishment is over.

    An arch capitalist coming to power in the US is the end of the establishment? :)

    You a Trump supporter too?
    The media hates him, the big multinationals hate him, he is going to rip the system apart. Due to social media and the availability to vast swathes of information, the media have less control on society now, that is what I think anyway.


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  • #1801
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    I am fundamentally against the EU. It stands for things I just can't accept. The European Commission for me is the antithesis of democracy. The institution was designed to strip democratic rights away from sovereign nations and look to Federalize Europe.
    I am against that and it seems the people who voted leave do too.

    The irony here is painful: a few unelected white males in 17th century wigs and gowns decided the other day that the declared wishes of a majority of the English electorate in 2016 are inferior to the wishes of the members of parliament (including one unelected parliament where blood and religion are still qualifications for membership in 2016).

    You could not make the delusions and jingoistic mentality of the Brexiters up.


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