New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Tristram · 31-10-2016 04:46PM

What in the what now? Thought he was going to be a force for the Pats for years to come.

paulie21 · 31-10-2016 04:46PM

me89 wrote: »

Just seen this. WTF is that about?

Seems wasn't going to sign a long term deal so got some value for him now. Strange decision for mid season though

Hazys · 31-10-2016 04:54PM

paulie21 wrote: »

Seems wasn't going to sign a long term deal so got some value for him now. Strange decision for mid season though

Especially since we would have got a 3rd round comp pick for him. Roberts was playing well but fcuking hell, he's no Jamie Collins

Hazys · 31-10-2016 05:04PM

Its also a 3rd round comp pick...basically a 4th.

If we got the Browns normal 3rd round pick it would have been almost a 2nd...nuts

Utopia Parkway · 31-10-2016 05:06PM

paulie21 wrote: »

Seems wasn't going to sign a long term deal so got some value for him now. Strange decision for mid season though

Could have kept him for the season and then let him walk. Probably would have got a compensatory 3rd rounder anyway. Can't figure this one out. Don't think he's been playing all that well this season by his standards though. Maybe his attitude hasn't been the best and Bill just wanted him out the door. Either way it hurts the Pats this season.

One Hightower injury now and that defence will collapse.

TOss Sweep · 31-10-2016 05:08PM

Apparently he wanted Von Miller kinds of money but even still why shop him now. Unbeleivable at best.

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 05:11PM

Probably just Bill making sure we have no defense left when Brady is going for his 5th ring.

HigginsJ · 31-10-2016 05:14PM

The Pats just trolling the rest of the NFL at this point really!!

Hazys · 31-10-2016 05:29PM

The only silver lining i get out of this, is that BB is not retiring anytime soon, he's still get an eye on a long term plan for the Pats.

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 05:35PM

Hazys wrote: »

The only silver lining i get out of this, is that BB is not retiring anytime soon, he's still get an eye on a long term plan for the Pats.

Bill is 64 and I can't see him retiring before 70 and I wouldn't be surprised if he pushes on beyond that. Most likely he'll retire when Brady throws his last pass as a Patriot on his 50th birthday.Which would mean Bill will be around 75.

Hazys · 31-10-2016 05:37PM

How did the Browns trade a compensation pick? Aren't they not given out until just before the draft?

It must be a conditional 3rd round pick right?

Hazys · 31-10-2016 05:53PM

Hazys wrote: »

How did the Browns trade a compensation pick? Aren't they not given out until just before the draft?

It must be a conditional 3rd round pick right?

Just read it is a conditional 3rd round pick.

If the Browns get a 3rd round compensation pick, the Patriots will get that. If they don't, the Patriots will get their 4th round pick...which will only be a pick or 2 behind.

So the Pats basically get a 4th rounder for Jamie Collins. We gave up a 5th for Mingo, so the mind boggles.

JaMarcusHustle · 31-10-2016 06:47PM

I'm furious. Absolutely furious.

Edit: I understand that getting anything for him is better than letting him walk for nothing, but a conditional 3rd or 4th round pick? Absolutely fúck that, and let him help us get another Super Bowl before he walks.

A late 3rd or 4th rounder is an insult. We would have gotten a compensatory pick in 2018 if he walked anyway.

Mr. Guappa · 31-10-2016 06:56PM

Would this free up much cap room? Maybe we've something else in the pipeline?

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 07:00PM

Former Pats Coaching assistant and close friend of Bill has put out some interesting tweets about the move...

https://twitter.com/mlombardifoxtv

Mike has been a very close confidant of Bill through the years and if Collins really has been going off script, freelancing and harming the defensive game plan during games, then good riddance to him imo.

AbusesToilets · 31-10-2016 07:34PM

In shock, here. Was resigned to losing Jones in the knowledge we'd be keeping Hightower and Collins. I could understand this move if we were going after an area of need, like in OL or maybe some explosive offensive threat. But a conditional 3rd? That's robbery. If Collins is ****ing up, bench his ass. I'd say our opposition can't believe their luck today.

Shedite27 · 31-10-2016 08:17PM

Read that tweet about 2n'd play of the game, anyone got the link?

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 08:24PM

Shedite27 wrote: »

Read that tweet about 2n'd play of the game, anyone got the link?

I already put a link under those tweets that I posted. Click on the link and you'll see that tweet about 6 tweets down.

Pyjamarama · 31-10-2016 08:50PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/16/ty-law-belichicks-personnel-approach-has-cost-patriots-championships/

Maybe some truth in the above. Mad trade.

Mr. Guappa · 31-10-2016 09:06PM

It's a crazy trade on the face of it. Even if you've decided that Collins won't be a Patriot next year, he would seem to have value for the remainder of this year. Certainly more value than getting a compensatory 3rd in 2017 when we would likely get the same in 2018 anyway if he left in FA. So, in effect, we've given Collins away for next to nothing.

The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that BB believes that getting Collins out the door now makes our D better right now. As hard as that is to believe it's the only thing that makes sense.

eagle eye · 31-10-2016 09:47PM

There has to be a reason for this. It's quite possible that Collins has become a locker room cancer and we can't have that. He hasn't played well either and I honestly said wtf yesterday a couple of times when he missed tackles. I have to admit that I didn't think for one second that his errors were on purpose but you could look at it that way tbf.

These things have happened over the years and it never seems to hurt the Patriots so I'm not going to worry too much about this. I really like Collins a lot and I'm disappointed to see him gone but we're on to Seattle.:cool:

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-10-2016 10:06PM

I'm kinda in two minds what to think.

A young, hugely talented linebacker than we could have kept this year and franchised next year. Keeping him and Hightower would surely have benefited the time remaining with Brady for another SB. His all round game is excellent and his value is greater than a 3rd/4th rounder.

Then I remember the talk in the off season about the huge money he reportedly wanted. And I think about how he isn't Kuechly or Miller. And how he doesn't seem to put in back to back standout games. And if the Lombardi reports are true, then he's trying to make flash plays for more money than what's right for the team.

I didn't like the trade of Mankins, and yet we go and win the SB. Chandler Jones (our best pass rusher) was traded and he's probably going to be watching the playoffs from home (and having another year where he gets the sacks, but still no consistent pressure on the QB to suggest he merits elite money).

Part of me is pissed. But then part of me says that if you pissed Bill off enough to get traded to the Browns..............then there must be a reason and some fault on behalf of Collins. Would like Bill to explain it more, but it'll be "doing what's best for the team" that'll be used.

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 10:44PM

eagle eye wrote: »

There has to be a reason for this. It's quite possible that Collins has become a locker room cancer and we can't have that. He hasn't played well either and I honestly said wtf yesterday a couple of times when he missed tackles. I have to admit that I didn't think for one second that his errors were on purpose but you could look at it that way tbf.

These things have happened over the years and it never seems to hurt the Patriots so I'm not going to worry too much about this. I really like Collins a lot and I'm disappointed to see him gone but we're on to Seattle.:cool:

I feel the same way about it and reading what Lombardi said changed things for me. It also makes sense now why he's not been playing well. As you said, if he's a locker room cancer then he had to go. You also can't have a player trying his own plays on the field. We won our last Superbowl thanks to the brilliance of Brady and two class defensive plays from Hightower and Butler.

Not having Collins around won't change much. Hightower is the Alpha dog on defensive and he's the man deserving the good money. Only for him, we were screwed when Mayo went down in consecutive seasons with injuries. Poor Butler is earning peanuts right now, yet he's out there giving it his all week in and week out. If the stories about Collins are true, then my respect for Hightower and Butler has only increased.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-10-2016 10:54PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

If the stories about Collins are true, then my respect for Hightower and Butler has only increased.

Will they be signed?
The trade of Jones and now Collins has freed up a huge chunk of money that potentially was going to be used.
They might look to franchise Hightower and sign Butler.

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 11:03PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Will they be signed?
The trade of Jones and now Collins has freed up a huge chunk of money that potentially was going to be used.
They might look to franchise Hightower and sign Butler.

We all know how important Hightower is and Butler is our No. 1 corner so I think they will be sorted. We have $9 million in cap space available and I think they will sign both in the coming offseason. I think the cost of tagging Hightower would be around $14 million, so they might be more inclined to sort out a long term deal for him rather than tagging him.

JaMarcusHustle · 31-10-2016 11:05PM

eagle eye wrote: »

There has to be a reason for this. It's quite possible that Collins has become a locker room cancer and we can't have that.

There are zero reports of Collins being a "cancer", which is stupid phrase to begin with. You're only throwing that out there now that he's gone. Hightower and Roberts certainly didn't seem to think he was a "cancer".

https://twitter.com/zeus30hightower/status/792850393986281472

eagle eye wrote: »

He hasn't played well either and I honestly said wtf yesterday a couple of times when he missed tackles.

Another false narrative that has appeared. PFF have him ranked as the 9th best linebacker in the league this year, and 2nd best in coverage - something we always look for in linebackers. Those grades would be even higher if it weren't for an uncharacteristic poor performance against Buffalo. He has a higher rating at this point than he did at the same stage last season.

eagle eye wrote: »

I have to admit that I didn't think for one second that his errors were on purpose but you could look at it that way tbf.

He's not a Patriot anymore, so he must have been making those mistakes on purpose. This is the worst narrative to have emerged.

Son Of A Vidic wrote:

Not having Collins around won't change much. Hightower is the Alpha dog on defensive and he's the man deserving the good money. Only for him, we were screwed when Mayo went down in consecutive seasons with injuries.

This is ridiculous - why do we have to sell short what Collins accomplished here in order to make ourselves feel better about this trade? Collins has been one of the best linebackers in the NFL for near 3 years now, and anything we've done on defence over the last few years is as equally attributable to Collins as it is to Hightower. They both stepped up.

People saying "Oh well he wanted Von Miller money without putting up Von Miller numbers" aren't comparing like with like - Miller is rushing the passer almost exclusively, Collins is rushing the passer, defending the run, covering tight ends and receivers and running backs, and making game changing plays on special teams. When you describe Collins, you're pretty much describing Belichick's wet dream.

I don't like losing Collins one bit, but I can accept that maybe with the amount of deals we have to work out this offseason that losing another name in addition to Chandler Jones may have been inevitable. But I don't have to downplay what Collins achieved here and I don't have to make up theories about him being a "cancer" or making poor plays on purpose.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-10-2016 11:22PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

When you describe Collins, you're pretty much describing Belichick's wet dream.

And yet Bill traded him, so something doesn't add up.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I don't agree with the Miller stuff. Miller is doing his job very well as a rusher; I don't think Collins has done his job as well as he hasn't been consistent. Now maybe I'm wrong, but if he wants $18m-$19m, he needed to do a lot more.

Son Of A Vidic · 31-10-2016 11:50PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

This is ridiculous - why do we have to sell short what Collins accomplished here in order to make ourselves feel better about this trade?

Mike Lombardi, a former Pats coach, a very good friend and close confidante & adviser to Bill, he's the one that made me feel better about the trade when I read his comments. The link is above for all to read.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Collins has been one of the best linebackers in the NFL for near 3 years now, and anything we've done on defence over the last few years is as equally attributable to Collins as it is to Hightower. They both stepped up.

Hightower is the leader on defense, Hightower did the impossible by making the loss of Mayo through injuries almost irrelevant. Two linebackers weren't getting two big pay days and when has that ever happened with us? The next Mayo style contract for a LB was always going to Hightower and rightly so. Yes Collins certainly wasn't playing particularly great or consistent this year. But I like most fans wanted Collins to stay but that's before all this broke.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Collins is rushing the passer, defending the run, covering tight ends and receivers and running backs, and making game changing plays on special teams. When you describe Collins, you're pretty much describing Belichick's wet dream.

Sometimes I think we all got lost in his athleticism and I was certainly very guilty of that. But what happened today got me thinking back to the AFC title game. Collins didn't always bring big plays in the big games. I almost forget that Collins made two shocking plays in The AFC title game last January, when he was beaten by the Broncos TE Owen Daniels giving up two TD's in the process. Yes that's right, Owen Fricking Daniels beat Collins for two TD's in a game we only lost by two points.

I trust Belichick's good judgement on this, he knows more and has seen more than we have. I also trust what Lombardi has said on the matter. If a player starts playing off script and doesn't stick to the game plan, then that's diva behaviour and it can't be tolerated. Elsewhere maybe, but certainly not in NE.

JaMarcusHustle · 31-10-2016 11:53PM

You've quoted me and not addressed any of my points or questions

brinty · 01-11-2016 12:15AM

JaMarcusHustle wrote:

Another false narrative that has appeared. PFF have him ranked as the 9th best linebacker in the league this year, and 2nd best in coverage - something we always look for in linebackers. Those grades would be even higher if it weren't for an uncharacteristic poor performance against Buffalo. He has a higher rating at this point than he did at the same stage last season.

JaMarcus you're a knowledge able guy and I respect your opinions

But if he's the 9th best linebacker per PFF why would he be traded away?? and for a third rounder from the browns who always overpay on trades

Yes I know it's a contact year and diminishes the value but why would the pats not be looking to resign him

BTW I'm not a pats fan and trying to be unbiased in what I say

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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