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The cost of travelling to work is becoming unsustainable

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    #122
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    psinno wrote: »
    Is it discrimination to charge everyone to travel at peak hours?

    Im almost certain that OAP free travel passes restrict users from buses at peak times.
    Must check with mother in law. Gulp.


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    #123
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,492 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    psinno wrote: »
    Is it discrimination to charge everyone to travel at peak hours?

    Yes because free means free not judging whether your need to travel is a "worthy" need or not.

    People who have free travel have satisfied the criteria to get it and if they need to travel then they will be on the train or bus regardless of whether they pay or not.

    All you are doing by charging them for travel at certain times is imposing unnecessary expense and inconvenience on them.


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    #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Im almost certain that OAP free travel passes restrict users from buses at peak times.
    Must check with mother in law. Gulp.

    There are no travel or time restrictions.

    "Where free travel can be used
    Free travel is available on most Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Dart and Luas Services and on certain private bus and ferry services. Free travel does not include some special services such as Dublin Bus NITELINK and AIRLINK services. You may also travel free of charge on certain cross-border services between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    If you are permanently living on any of the Aran Islands, you may get up to 12 single (or 6 return) air trips each year between the islands and the mainland. People who live permanently on Tory Island (Co. Donegal) are entitled to a 8 (or 4 return) free journeys on the seasonal helicopter service operating between the island and the mainland.

    There are no restrictions on the times you can use your Free Travel Card."

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html


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    #125
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Del2005 wrote: »

    We should be building more social housing, but we also need to ensure that its been used for people who need it. If people in social housing can afford to run a new car and take foreign holidays then they don't need social housing and should be moved on so that the next needy person can get a helping hand.

    This attitude makes no sense. It's judgemental of people who do better through employment and it also wants to ghettoise social housing areas into only those in extreme poverty and the unemployed. It's a recipe for social marginalisation and isolation and creating intergenerational unemployment, and poverty and welfare dependency and discintentivising class mobility and uptake of employment opportunities.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #126
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    psinno wrote: »
    That doesn't really address the question of why people who don't qualify for council homes because they don't have a low income should be allowed to live in them because they once qualified.

    Because ghettos of social housing estates with only the extreme poor and unemployed living there are a bad thing.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #127
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    pilly wrote: »
    Only solution is to look for a job closer to where you live, even if it's less well paid. You'll save a whole load of money and stress.

    There's nothing like working close to home.

    I don't know what the OP is qualified in but there's plenty of jobs here in Kilkenny which would be far closer than Dublin everyday.


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    #128
    hytrogen
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    This attitude makes no sense. It's judgemental of people who do better through employment and it also wants to ghettoise social housing areas into only those in extreme poverty and the unemployed. It's a recipe for social marginalisation and isolation and creating intergenerational unemployment, and poverty and welfare dependency and discintentivising class mobility and uptake of employment opportunities.
    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    Because ghettos of social housing estates with only the extreme poor and unemployed living there are a bad thing.

    It's a shame the term "social housing" has been vilified as a term "for the unemployed or unemployable" in this country. Like the "travelling community" vilified for being translucent and unsettled. Painted by the same filthy unwelcoming brush. In many other countries the term, or what we should be clarifying on, is state owned housing where the people rent from the state and not a private landlord be you employed or not. That is what a healthy property market has, a balance between state owned and privately owned accommodation, but I'll leave that to the Accommo forum for further discussion. We had that once, the houses owned by the state-owned railway for the railway workers & their families in many small towns or villages and it worked but to name one example. Funny how history is washed down the drain


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    #129
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Are there any restrictions on free pass travel holders using public transport during peak hours? Seems like the obvious solution and would increase actual hard cash revenue to CIE etc which is what they really need.


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    #130
    91wx763
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭91wx763


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Emme wrote: »
    I am sick of being screwed for my hard earned salary by all and sundry. Sick of trying to find a seat on a train in the morning full of people who don't pay anything to travel and could more than likely travel on a later train if they wished. Sick of racketeering extortionist borderline criminal car park operators who make the Kray twins look like amateurs.

    Are you the only worker who pays train fare or are you having a pop at those who may be genuinely unable to either work or get work?

    However, I DO agree that they should only be allowed travel offpeak or like the UK system, only within a certain radius of their home. Should they need to travel at peak times or outside this radius, they should be able to claim pack a portion of their travel costs.

    Sitting on ones backside on the dole is torture for one used to and willing to work.
    NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!


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    #131
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    91wx763 wrote: »
    NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!

    In Ireland OAP's don't realise how good they have it...all I ever hear is whine whine whine incessantly. I think it's great they are well treated but i'm firmly of the opinion it is at the expense of young people and middle income workers. Who effectively see 0 benefit to paying huge taxes.


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    #132
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    road_high wrote: »
    In Ireland OAP's don't realise how good they have it...all I ever hear is whine whine whine incessantly. I think it's great they are well treated but i'm firmly of the opinion it is at the expense of young people and middle income workers. Who effectively see 0 benefit to paying huge taxes.

    The same huge taxes OAPs also paid.


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    #133
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Donal55 wrote: »
    The same huge taxes OAPs also paid.

    Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower ;)


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    #134
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,492 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    road_high wrote: »
    Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower ;)

    Think back to the really hard times when we managed to look after the old timers. Of course the taxes of the people working today pay for the pensions just as they paid for those before them.That's the way it works for good or bad.

    Don't worry about older people giving out, it comes with the territory, your day will come too cheer up.


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    #135
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    road_high wrote: »
    Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower ;)

    ...also paid. Taxes.


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    #136
    mayway
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 276 ✭✭mayway


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Where do you live and where do you work?
    How does an increase in car tax or car insurance affect the cost of travelling to work? You'ld have to pay that if you had a car and didn't work. You even have to pay it if you just get the train and don't use your car.

    Seriously? You don't understand how an increase in car tax and insurance doesn't make a car more expensive? Come on.


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    #137
    mayway
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 276 ✭✭mayway


    I find budgeting very easy and tremendous fun.

    Start with what you earn net. Say 12000. Subtract what you have to spend eg food, rent, etc. What you're left with then what you afford to spend on luxury items e.g. nights out, pub, off license, car, bus fare, etc.

    If you find that you can't afford a car then get rid of it. Similarly for bus and train fares, if you can't afford them then don't use them. To get work you can simply walk. If it's further that 5 or 6 miles then get a bike. Simple! If you're 50 miles away then move or get a different job closer to where you live. Also, you can solve the no seat on the train problem by moving to the end of the line so the train will start at your station with all seats available! Problem solved.

    You are welcome.


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    #138
    mayway
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 276 ✭✭mayway


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    n97 mini wrote: »
    There is something insane about commuters having 100km+ commutes to Dublin. But not as insane as the low rise building regulations in Dublin. The docklands areas should be full of high rise. IFSC is Dublin's answer to Canary Wharf... yeah right!

    100km+ commutes are insane. Why spend so much of your life commuting? Ridiculous.

    Anything more than 20-25 minutes is just wrong. I live in Dublin on a 1/2 acre which allows me and my family plenty space. My commute is 20 minutes each way and I have a second 4 bedroom house in Drumcondra which I bought 15 years ago and I rent out.

    You can achieve whatever you want if you are prepared to work for it.


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    #139
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,611 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm delighted for you, but why are you telling us about how well you've done in life?


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    #140
    mayway
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 276 ✭✭mayway


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm delighted for you, but why are you telling us about how well you've done in life?
    Just trying to offer some hope to the whingers out there.


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    #141
    hannible the cannible
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 163 ✭✭hannible the cannible


    mayway wrote: »
    Just trying to offer some hope to the whingers out there.

    Yes , the hope that they don't turn out to be someone like you


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    #142
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    mayway wrote: »
    Seriously? You don't understand how an increase in car tax and insurance doesn't make a car more expensive? Come on.

    As has already been explained, while increases in motor tax and insurance obviously affect the cost of owning and operating a car, since they are pretty much flat rate expenses (in my experience the question about annual mileage on insurance quotes has a negligible influence) they impact the cost of commuting to and from work if and only if you only have the car because you need it to get to and from work. If you would otherwise get rid of the car, then fine, they add to the cost of commuting. However the majority of car owners in Ireland are not in this situation (myself included, I don't drive to work), and as such they are an added lifestyle cost, and thus discretionary expenses.


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    #143
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,611 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i own a car and do not use it to get to work. as such, increases in motor tax and insurance do not impact my cost of commuting in any way.


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    #144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    91wx763 wrote: »
    NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!

    Pensioners in England get free travel in their local area, by bus. Unlike Ireland where they can travel the country on any public transport, at any time of day or night for free.


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    #145
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    road_high wrote: »
    Are there any restrictions on free pass travel holders using public transport during peak hours? Seems like the obvious solution and would increase actual hard cash revenue to CIE etc which is what they really need.

    No there isn't

    Why on earth should there be?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #146
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    road_high wrote: »
    Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower ;)

    Right so they never paid any taxes in their lives and fūck them basically

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #147
    appfry
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭appfry


    I recently retired. Not old enough to get the OAP for a good few years yet, but we got rid of one car as we dont both need to go different directions to work anymore and the amount of money we save per year now is massive.

    Amazing the difference not having to commute is, as well as going down to just one car. Its worth the same as a mortgage.
    Dont underestimate what your commute costs you, especially if you are a couple who have to run two cars.


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    end of the road wrote: »
    because to solve everything in relation to the countries housing needs we can't either
    1. simply rely on the private rental market, it costs a lot more long term and it's unsustainible to rely on it.
    2. simply rely on everyone being able to get a mortgage as some are just unmortgageible and (rightly) the banks aren't giving mortgages out like sweets, we saw what happened when they were. that also cost and was unsustainible
    so we need a third option, social/council housing for those of a low income including the huge number of low income workers.

    Enough social housing as a 3rf option will never be built.
    If we resort to that too many will get on the gravy train.

    As you say there's a huge number of low income workers. Being on low income & being handed a council house isn't a solution to anything from a big picture viewpoint.


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    #149
    TheAnalyst_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭TheAnalyst_


    Ultimately if you have only yourself to blame. You have the power to change yoru situation. If a 2 hour commute each way to the midlands is your only solution then suck it up.

    I drive 1.5km to my job. It takes a few minutes in city traffic. I have free parking and pay no motor tax or tax on my fuel. It makes my life a daily pleasure.
    I did the sums and left Ireland years ago and I always crack a smile when my old mates whatsapp group is alight about 3 hour delays on the m50.


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    #150
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,611 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    why would you even bother driving 1.5km?


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    #151
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Augeo wrote: »
    Enough social housing as a 3rf option will never be built.
    If we resort to that too many will get on the gravy train.

    As you say there's a huge number of low income workers. Being on low income & being handed a council house isn't a solution to anything from a big picture viewpoint.

    It absolutely is. It adresses issues of homelessness, poverty, social exclusion.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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