The cost of travelling to work is becoming unsustainable

Mortpourvelo

Augeo wrote: »

€6/day to get to and from work and you are complaining :pac:
Unreal.

Agreed, I have to cough up nearly 4 grand a year to get from Portlaoise.

And OP - Emme ? Could not agree with your points more.

Ticket inspector working the train that leaves Limerick about half five in the morning (btw, two stops after Portlaoise and precious few seats left).

The number of social welfare passes compared to paying punters was horrific.

Would it kill them to get a later train ? Or at least wind the brats down to a dull roar ???

Typical Ireland though, you work and you contribute and you're last on the list for anything.

_Kaiser_

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Agreed, I have to cough up nearly 4 grand a year to get from Portlaoise.

And OP - Emme ? Could not agree with your points more.

Ticket inspector working the train that leaves Limerick about half five in the morning (btw, two stops after Portlaoise and precious few seats left).

The number of social welfare passes compared to paying punters was horrific.

Would it kill them to get a later train ? Or at least wind the brats down to a dull roar ???

Typical Ireland though, you work and you contribute and you're last on the list for anything.

I could well be wrong but isn't there a restriction on the hours these passes can be used on Dublin Bus (or maybe it was a proposal?) If not then there certainly should be. Paying commuters/workers should have priority at peak times IMO

pilly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I could well be wrong but isn't there a restriction on the hours these passes can be used on Dublin Bus (or maybe it was a proposal?) If not then there certainly should be. Paying commuters/workers should have priority at peak times IMO

No restriction, which is ridiculous. They should definitely be restricted during rush hour. I think the problem was with kids getting to school though. Maybe they could just allow it for adults travelling with kids or something?

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

...........

But because "owning a house" is seen as the measure of success in this country, who cares about reforming the rental sector as a REAL long-term alternative to ownership or commuting workers stuck on the M50 every day, right?...........

Presumably those renting.


Who like yourself seem to be good at finger pointing but to my earlier point "Lots of folks didn't buy pre boom, during the boom or post boom and come out with this speel"

There is no long term alternative to ownership unless you have the means to rent until you die pr are happy being in the social housing lottery in your elderly years.

You mention the last 5 years, plenty reasonably priced housing for sale in that window. Blame FG now there's not? Did you credit them when houses were cheap? I think not.

whisky_galore

Augeo wrote: »

unless you have the means to rent until you die.

You can't take it with you...

pilly

Augeo wrote: »

Presumably those renting.

Who like yourself seem to be good at finger pointing but to my earlier point "Lots of folks didn't buy pre boom, during the boom or post boom and come out with this speel"

There is no long term alternative to ownership unless you have the means to rent until you die pr are happy being in the social housing lottery in your elderly years.

In many countries people rent property for their entire lifetime, it's not impossible. Ireland is just not set up for it.

newacc2015

dev100 wrote: »

It's a double edged sword. Can't afford a home in Dublin move out to afford a home.

There's a lot of like minded people who do this . It's a big shock to couples or families who move down the country to afford a home . Sounds good on paper .... place in country ....get an affordable mortgage . Then the reverse happens it nearly costs more in time and money. it's scary when some people don't factor in the full costs of living in commuter counties.

Unfortunately that's life

I think the biggest cost people ignore is their children going to college. I know a ton of Dubliners whose parents moved to commuter towns for the massive generic 4 bed bungalow for 'cheaper housing'. Then when they had to go to college, their parents put them into rental accommodation as their studies were suffering with 2-3 hour commutes each way.

No one seems to factoring in having 2/3 children in rented accommodation in Dublin for 4 years is close to €80k.

Del2005

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I could well be wrong but isn't there a restriction on the hours these passes can be used on Dublin Bus (or maybe it was a proposal?) If not then there certainly should be. Paying commuters/workers should have priority at peak times IMO

There used to be a restriction it was removed years ago. Apparently people with the free pass where annoyed with not being able to get to hospital appointments in the morning, it never dawned on them that they could pay like the rest and get there.

LirW

Augeo wrote: »

There is no long term alternative to ownership unless you have the means to rent until you die pr are happy being in the social housing lottery in your elderly years.

You mention the last 5 years, plenty reasonably priced housing for sale in that window. Blame FG now there's not? Did you credit them when houses were cheap? I think not.

Where I come from the rental market is also struggling with offering a long-term alternative. There have been unlimited rental agreements with the restriction of rent increase not higher than the inflation. I lived in an apartment like that and if my whole situation wouldn't have changed I would've stayed in that place for a very long time. To be fair, the building quality was really good, so it's not comparable with the average Dublin apartment.
Unfortunately in the recent years, most management companies tried to withdraw these contracts to turn in into short term agreements - usually 2 years and afterwards hiking the rent up. This leaves people not being able to buy in the same situation.

In all fairness, I do not understand the Irish prejudice when it comes to apartments. The poor building quality of whats on the market is a fair point, but in general it seems like they are seen either as investment or housing for the poor. I'd have no problem buying a good apartment for my family to live in for a lifetime.


Your point of fairly priced houses: My MIL is selling her mothers house with her siblings. It's based in Santry and even though the place is in pretty bad shape, they'll still get at least 300k for this dump (had the valuation 2 weeks ago). I would have no clue how I could fork that out much money for a run down place.
On the northside of Dub the only affordable areas are actually some where lots of people wouldn't even set a foot in (I can already here my MIL talk about certain areas and how she'd never visit there :rolleyes: ).
Dublin altogether is just barely affordable for a good amount of people.

endacl

My bike is free at this point. The only cost in running it is the belly I'd otherwise have.

..... site needs a <smug> smiley....

whisky_galore

pilly wrote: »

In many countries people rent property for their entire lifetime, it's not impossible. Ireland is just not set up for it.

Renting is thought of something students or what 'people waiting to get on the property ladder' do...something interm quirky thing that people in their 20's/30's do before they grow up, get married and get proper houses and start firing babies out like all good decent Irish people are supposed to.

end of the road

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I could well be wrong but isn't there a restriction on the hours these passes can be used on Dublin Bus (or maybe it was a proposal?) If not then there certainly should be. Paying commuters/workers should have priority at peak times IMO

why should we get priority. public transport is for everybody. not just those of us who work. lets say we did get priority, what would happen if they're was still severe overcrowding and you couldn't get a seat? we prioritise people earning over or under a certain amount?
you don't actually pay for a seat unless you reserve one, you actually pay to travel on the service.

Carlos Orange

end of the road wrote: »

you don't actually pay for a seat unless you reserve one, you actually pay to travel on the service.

Which you can't do if the bus/train is completely full which did happen sometimes when I commuted.

end of the road

psinno wrote: »

Which you can't do if the bus/train is completely full which did happen sometimes when I commuted.

the train doesn't have a legal limit as to how many it can take unlike the bus though.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

.........

You mention the last 5 years, plenty reasonably priced housing for sale in that window. Blame FG now there's not? Did you credit them when houses were cheap? I think not.

LirW wrote: »

.......


Your point of fairly priced houses: My MIL is selling her mothers house with her siblings. It's based in Santry and even though the place is in pretty bad shape, they'll still get at least 300k for this dump (had the valuation 2 weeks ago). I would have no clue how I could fork that out much money for a run down place..............
Dublin altogether is just barely affordable for a good amount of people.

My point referred to the last 5 years, not the present moment.

Emme

end of the road wrote: »

the train doesn't have a limit as to many it can take unlike the bus though.

Yes it does. I have seen pregnant women jammed up against train corridor doors fainting and/or vomiting because of overcrowding. At one stage it was so bad that the morning Waterford Heuston trains often had to stop en route to get ambulances for passengers who became unwell. I was one of those. Fainted getting onto the train, got trampled by other people getting on and IR had to call an ambulance for me.

Do you propose employing pushers like some Japanese see railways? If so trains should put in hanging straps ans provide sick bags for passengers.

Carlos Orange

end of the road wrote: »

the train doesn't have a limit as to many it can take unlike the bus though.

You seem unfamiliar with the basic laws of physics.

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

Yes it does. I have seen pregnant women jammed up against train corridor doors fainting and/or vomiting because of overcrowding. At one stage it was so bad that the morning Waterford Heuston trains often had to stop en route to get ambulances for passengers who became unwell. I was one of those. Fainted getting onto the train, got trampled by other people getting on and IR had to call an ambulance for me.

Do you propose employing pushers like some Japanese see railways? If so trains should put in hanging straps ans provide sick bags for passengers.

no it doesn't. you don't have to like it and by all means don't, but they're is no legal limit on the amount of passengers a train can take. i have never said that is fine, so read what i actually wrote rather then what you wanted me to have written.

Alun

end of the road wrote: »

so read what i actually wrote rather then what you wanted me to have written.

You edited it after psinno replied to add the 'legal' bit!

Grandeeod

I'm an oldie on these forums. Reading this and other similar threads reminds me of 2006 and the very same threads on boards. History repeats itself. We are meant to learn from history. Its the best education you can avail of.

Alas, we did nothing but talk the talk about transport needs and housing all those years ago. Recession delivered an "excuse". The slow slow recovery is now re-awakening, the same old problems.

Nothing has changed.

Emme

end of the road wrote: »

no it doesn't. you don't have to like it and by all means don't, but they're is no legal limit on the amount of passengers a train can take. i have never said that is fine, so read what i actually wrote rather then what you wanted me to have written.

end of the road's model of train travel

http://unbelievableindia.com/crowded-indian-train/

weldoninhio

magicbastarder wrote: »

it costs you €120 gross or net?

I pay €120 a month for my ticket.

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

end of the road's model of train travel

http://unbelievableindia.com/crowded-indian-train/

on what basis? because i stated a fact that in this country they're is no limit set down in law or elsewhere as to how many passengers can be carried on our trains? just because i state it does not mean i agree with it. however in saying that, if a limit was brought in tomorrow and i was refused boarding because the limit was reached i wouldn't be to happy.

hatrickpatrick

Why is everybody focusing on the car tax aspect of the OP? The cost of a DART ticket has gone up massively since the beginning of the recession. It now costs almost €5 on leap and more than €5 with a ticket to commute to and from work in the city centre from Dun Laoghaire or any of its nearby stations. That is ludicrous. I believe the fare is €2.70 each way on the bus - also ludicrous. Now, if you work full time you can avail of tax saver tickets which save a little - people who are commuting to and from college and working part time jobs get doubly f*cked over.

It's ridiculous. With regard to the DART, the service has declined massively in quality (every 15 minutes even at rush hour? Feckin' hell.) while becoming more and more expensive - and yet IE complains of falling passenger numbers?

_Kaiser_

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is everybody focusing on the car tax aspect of the OP? The cost of a DART ticket has gone up massively since the beginning of the recession. It now costs almost €5 on leap and more than €5 with a ticket to commute to and from work in the city centre from Dun Laoghaire or any of its nearby stations. That is ludicrous. I believe the fare is €2.70 each way on the bus - also ludicrous. Now, if you work full time you can avail of tax saver tickets which save a little - people who are commuting to and from college and working part time jobs get doubly f*cked over.

It's ridiculous. With regard to the DART, the service has declined massively in quality (every 15 minutes even at rush hour? Feckin' hell.) while becoming more and more expensive - and yet IE complains of falling passenger numbers?

Agree with this.

I remember asking something similar previously - how is it justifiable for the same journey on the same vehicles (buses) to cost nearly double than what they did a decade ago after a severe recession that many are still recovering from and when services have been cut/merged or extended ridiculously in the same time

But apparently it's more important we have things like Irish language announcements, shiny new buses (which are arguably worse than what they replaced, and a questionable expense under the financial circumstances - especially when most of what's been sold is still in daily use elsewhere), and WiFi on-board rather than having cheap and reliable services first

Anongeneric

The last 5 years it was impossible to get a mortgage for most people, the banks were not lending.

Fine Gael should not be applauded for having cheap house prices a few years ago, as they weren't responsible for it,
The banks not approving mortgages, plus the banking sector worldwide imploding is what was responsible for cheap house prices during those years.

I'm not on here to bash FG or FF, (as much as I'd like to and it's deserved for a number of different reasons),
But it's fairly safe to say that neither of them are capable of managing the housing market correctly.

I can't believe people aren't talking more about the fact that low earners will now be helping fund 600k house purchases in this country through their tax contributions.
Edit, this was in response to "Augeos" comments on same.

magicbastarder

weldoninhio wrote: »

I pay €120 a month for my ticket.

gross or net?

ted1

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's a joke. I work in Coolock, live in Rush. 25km door to door. And it costs me €120 a month on work related travel on buses that are less than reliable.

That's using a Leap Taxsaver card. It's a farce.

That's just over an hour cycling.

ted1

end of the road wrote: »

why should we get priority. public transport is for everybody. not just those of us who work. lets say we did get priority, what would happen if they're was still severe overcrowding and you couldn't get a seat? we prioritise people earning over or under a certain amount?
you don't actually pay for a seat unless you reserve one, you actually pay to travel on the service.

Because if your not working you don't need to be anywhere.

_Kaiser_

ted1 wrote: »

That's just over an hour cycling.

You're joking right? Coolock to Rush on a bike?

I know this forum is obsessed with cycling anyway, but it's not actually the solution for every trip!