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Why are men dropping out of society? - mod note in 1st post

12357…27

Comments

  • #122
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    PucaMama wrote: »
    That is an American study. Doesn't apply here. Like studies on African males may not apply to European men.

    Irish divorce experts quote very similar figures.

    "More than seven out of 10 judicial separation and divorce applications where there are dependant children were initiated by mothers,"

    http://www.independent.ie/life/family/family-features/why-does-ireland-have-the-lowest-divorce-rate-in-the-eu-34217513.html


  • #123
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    silverharp wrote: »
    its not about blaming "half the population" but the same thing is happening in Japan so I'd say its more an economic problem. As I see it lower status males are not required, employers only want to give them minimum wage jobs and everything else follows on from that. they might as well "opt out" and make the best of a low cost low wage lifestyle.
    The thing about Japan is that it is both men and women are rejecting companionship, so it is not exclusively a male thing. Take these figures:
    The institute's latest research found that 69 per cent of men and 59 per cent of women in Japan do not have sexual partners.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japan-sex-problem-maki-fukasawa-a7347456.html

    Granted, there are more lads abstaining, but the figure for women is still pretty high over there too. Whatever is happening, I would not be certain that economics explains it fully. Also, note the caveat by the author of the original study, she believes that some of the high figures might be explained by confusion over the meaning of a key question on the survey.


  • #124
    maregal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭maregal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Threads like this don't belong here. It's so totally removed from anything to do with the average Irish male and imo damage the forum and drag it down. Is their not some far flung corner of Boards for this kind of crap?

    And it begins. Females arrive to instruct the men on what they can and cannot discuss in the Gentlemen's Club. Label us insane, delusional and call for the thread to be shut down.

    Women are more likely to initiate divorce and get the house along with alimony payments. Fact. Is it any wonder men are wary of going near females?


  • #125
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Threads like this don't belong here. It's so totally removed from anything to do with the average Irish male and imo damage the forum and drag it down. Is their not some far flung corner of Boards for this kind of crap?
    It's a subject of the day and being discussed and indeed followed as a lifestyle by some men, so it bears discussion, so long as it remains within the charter of the forum and wider Boards.

    Speaking personally I prefer to shine a light on points and opinions, rather than jump to suppress them as a reflex action. The latter doesn't sit well with me. A position will either stand or fall on it's merits and I have no doubt folks are well capable of applying their own angle on such points and opinions. As indeed they have on this thread. We are all adults here. Well.. maybe not me so much…

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #126
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    maregal wrote: »
    And it begins. Females arrive to instruct the men on what they can and cannot discuss in the Gentlemen's Club. Label us insane, delusional and call for the thread to be shut down.

    Women are more likely to initiate divorce and get the house along with alimony payments. Fact. Is it any wonder men are wary of going near females?

    Why are women "females" while men are still men. Typical language for your type.

    It doesn't matter who starts a divorce the only person responsible for the divorce is whoever caused the end of the relationship or do you believe a woman beaten by her husband shouldn't be allowed initiate divorce? What if it's a man being abused?


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  • #127
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    maregal wrote: »
    And it begins. Females arrive to instruct the men on what they can and cannot discuss in the Gentlemen's Club. Label us insane, delusional and call for the thread to be shut down.

    Women are more likely to initiate divorce and get the house along with alimony payments. Fact. Is it any wonder men are wary of going near females?

    It's women, not females. If you can't be bothered to show respect don't expect to be taken seriously. And I think it's great that you are staying away from women I really do :)


  • #128
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    maregal wrote: »
    Is it any wonder men are wary of going near females?
    "Females"? Are you A) American, B) African American, C) a biologist? TBH it grinds me gears this imported "gender war" jargon. In a big way. Then again I get a pain in my hair when I read "mom" and "store" coming from Irish lips, so people vary…

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #129
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Threads like this don't belong here. It's so totally removed from anything to do with the average Irish male and imo damage the forum and drag it down. Is their not some far flung corner of Boards for this kind of crap?

    Report the opening post & seek a closure.... or don't read it.

    choice is yours.


  • #130
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    maregal wrote: »
    And it begins. Females arrive to instruct the men on what they can and cannot discuss in the Gentlemen's Club. Label us insane, delusional and call for the thread to be shut down.

    Women are more likely to initiate divorce and get the house along with alimony payments. Fact. Is it any wonder men are wary of going near females?

    Your agenda is so disturbing.

    Carrying around so much bitterness and hatred towards another gender cannot be healthy for anyone, man or woman. There's no objectivity to your views at all.


  • #131
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Your agenda is so disturbing.

    Carrying around so much bitterness and hatred towards another gender cannot be healthy for anyone, man or woman. There's no objectivity to your views at all.

    In fairness to the guy, he was called delusional, and people suggested the thread should be closed. Some of the responses on this thread are like a Lewis law for MRAs.


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  • #132
    hytrogen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    An interesting dynamic emerged this morning on newstalk on the Brexit discussion around 9am. Panel were equal men & women, all with different approaches to the issue.
    Long story short two men went at it, very heated debate tone, female presenter had to shut them up, other female panellists could only giggled at the more aggressive toned debater everytime he made a counter argument to her which infuriated the debate further and somewhat distastefully to listen to.
    A thought emerged that she felt intimidated by his argument and because she couldn't respond effectively she emasculated him as a response in a tone of "oh silly old man haha"
    Anyway I don't like the contempt some women hold for men when it comes to perfectly rational discussion.
    But I have to admit they are naturally better at marketing themselves to an employer than the average male is these days, ruthless and tyrannical to an extent..


  • #133
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    mzungu wrote: »
    The thing about Japan is that it is both men and women are rejecting companionship, so it is not exclusively a male thing. Take these figures:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japan-sex-problem-maki-fukasawa-a7347456.html

    Granted, there are more lads abstaining, but the figure for women is still pretty high over there too. Whatever is happening, I would not be certain that economics explains it fully. Also, note the caveat by the author of the original study, she believes that some of the high figures might be explained by confusion over the meaning of a key question on the survey.

    their economy never really recovered after their 80's bubble and they have one of the lowest replacement population rates so they aint doing what their parents did. there is a market mismatch, the average Japanese woman will tend to only marry someone who makes 40-50K a year but only 25% of men up to 39 make this. so they either live in hope or do other things.
    so again its not about blaming women its about incentives. Japan's old people will not vote to have their welfare drop or reform the economy so its stuck in glue.
    As far as Japan goes they ought to let their population crash and pick up the pieces later, its a very crowded place to live and the japs are good at automation.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #134
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    In fairness to the guy, he was called delusional, and people suggested the thread should be closed. Some of the responses on this thread are like a Lewis law for MRAs.

    His behaviour is delusional though. He really believes this about half the human population. He actually believes women are that different to men. Sorry "females" as he says.


  • #135
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    PucaMama wrote: »
    His behaviour is delusional though. He really believes this about half the human population. He actually believes women are that different to men. Sorry "females" as he says.

    I had a response written but it was backseat modding I think. MGTOW is absurd and I'll leave it at that.


  • #136
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's women, not females. If you can't be bothered to show respect don't expect to be taken seriously. And I think it's great that you are staying away from women I really do :)

    Why don't you and other call out the posters in the "other" forum then for using Males in exactly the same manner? Surely its equally disrespectful?

    The reaction to the OP's and some of the others posting is what I'm talking about we don't tend to offer men who've developed anti-social tendencies a positive way out we tend to view them as either dangerous or pathetic (or both).


  • #137
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    In fairness to the guy, he was called delusional, and people suggested the thread should be closed. Some of the responses on this thread are like a Lewis law for MRAs.

    To have such an intense distrust of half the population is delusional though.


  • #138
    maregal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭maregal


    @Wibbs: thank you for not submitting to the SJW censorship mob. You're an exemplary moderator which is why I believe you're universally respected among admins, your fellow mods and the larger user base.
    PucaMama wrote: »
    His behaviour is delusional though. He really believes this about half the human population. He actually believes women are that different to men. Sorry "females" as he says.

    Is "females" a derogatory term now? It's hard to keep up with ever-changing SJW rulebook.

    You directly labelled me as delusional in post #114. "You seem delusional". Your predictable ad hominem attacks don't bother me personally but I'd prefer if you dealt with the thread topic.
    • Why do you think men are dropping out of society?
    • Do you accept the vast majority of divorces in the West are initiated by women?


  • #139
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    eviltwin wrote: »
    To have such an intense distrust of half the population is delusional though.

    I doubt anyone starts out that way. Their experiences in life lead them to that point of view. In many aspects of life (political and professional for example) men tend to have more power than woman. In others, particularly romantic interactions, women have the upper hand. Woman bristle against the former; is it surprising when men bristle against the latter.

    Again, and I can't stress this enough, I have no time for MGTOW. But I can see how men can end up thinking this way.


  • #140
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Why don't you and other call out the posters in the "other" forum then for using Males in exactly the same manner? Surely its equally disrespectful?

    The reaction to the OP's and some of the others posting is what I'm talking about we don't tend to offer men who've developed anti-social tendencies a positive way out we tend to view them as either dangerous or pathetic (or both).

    They are viewed as dangerous because they often are, in the same way an abused neglected dog could be dangerous through aggression, these men have been brainwashed (abused) into being very very angry towards women.


  • #141
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    I doubt anyone starts out that way. Their experiences in life lead them to that point of view. In many aspects of life (political and professional for example) men tend to have more power than woman. In others, particularly romantic interactions, women have the upper hand. Woman bristle against the former; is it surprising when men bristle against the latter.

    Again, and I can't stress this enough, I have no time for MGTOW. But I can see how men can end up thinking this way.

    I can get how men end up that way but what I don't get is that rather than dropping out of the dating/relationships thing they also seem to divorce themselves from all women including purely platonic relationships.


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  • #142
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    I doubt anyone starts out that way. Their experiences in life lead them to that point of view. In many aspects of life (political and professional for example) men tend to have more power than woman. In others, particularly romantic interactions, women have the upper hand. Woman bristle against the former; is it surprising when men bristle against the latter.

    Again, and I can't stress this enough, I have no time for MGTOW. But I can see how men can end up thinking this way.

    I agree no one is born this way, we are the product of our experiences. I don't have any issues with anyone choosing to remain single. What I find worrying is the way it's then assumed all women are bitches when even the OP must have people in his life who are happy with their partners.


  • #143
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    PucaMama wrote: »
    They are viewed as dangerous because they often are, in the same way an abused neglected dog could be dangerous through aggression, these men have been brainwashed (abused) into being very very angry towards women.

    Surely its better to reach out to them then and support a change in their thinking isn't it rather than further isolating them?


  • #144
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    silverharp wrote: »
    their economy never really recovered after their 80's bubble and they have one of the lowest replacement population rates so they aint doing what their parents did. there is a market mismatch, the average Japanese woman will tend to only marry someone who makes 40-50K a year but only 25% of men up to 39 make this. so they either live in hope or do other things.
    Must be why there are a zillion Japanese backpackers on the world circuit these days. Japan's loss is the worldwide hostel industries gain! :D

    so again its not about blaming women its about incentives. Japan's old people will not vote to have their welfare drop or reform the economy so its stuck in glue.
    As far as Japan goes they ought to let their population crash and pick up the pieces later, its a very crowded place to live and the japs are good at automation.
    Just to clarify, when I said that originally I was referring specifically to the MGTOW collective, and not the Japan situation.

    On a serious note, if the population does crash they have some crappy years ahead.


  • #145
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    maregal wrote: »
    @Wibbs: thank you for not submitting to the SJW censorship mob. You're an exemplary moderator which is why I believe you're universally respected among admins, your fellow mods and the larger user base.



    Is "females" a derogatory term now? It's hard to keep up with ever-changing SJW rulebook.

    You directly labelled me as delusional in post #114. "You seem delusional". Your predictable ad hominem attacks don't bother me personally but I'd prefer if you dealt with the thread topic.
    • Why do you think men are dropping out of society?
    • Do you accept the vast majority of divorces in the West are initiated by women?

    1. I am far from a sjw type person.
    2. They are looking for a way out of responsibility I.e. Having and raising children. Eternal teenagers, they never want to grow up and can't accept life as an adult.
    3. Yes I do. Kinda has something to do with so many countries outside the "west" either not allowing divorce or restricting women's rights within marriage.
    Edit: re the females bit. An adult female human is called a woman. Call us women. We are not animals. Do not talk about us like we are.


  • #146
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    maregal wrote: »
    Is "females" a derogatory term now? It's hard to keep up with ever-changing SJW rulebook.

    Not when it's used in a David Attenborough type context when he's describing other species.
    Female adult humans are called women.

    The sweeping generalisations from you are sickening and I know one or two lads who are on a similar level.
    You's seem to have an unrealistic view that the problems are with society and women and not with your own attitudes towards the world.


  • #147
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Why don't you and other call out the posters in the "other" forum then for using Males in exactly the same manner? Surely its equally disrespectful?

    Which other forum has a thread with women blaming all men for their perceived ills in life?


  • #148
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I can get how men end up that way but what I don't get is that rather than dropping out of the dating/relationships thing they also seem to divorce themselves from all women including purely platonic relationships.

    This is all a little bit amateur psychology, but I think it's very easy to turn a sense of bitterness that you feel into an external idea, and make someone else responsible for your unhappiness. Once you do that, it's hard to trust people who belong to that group. BLM activists can often express very angry ideas towards white society in America for example. (In their case the emotion is less driven by bitterness and rather injustice, but the wider group is still mistrusted.)


  • #149
    hytrogen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    Advice to OP and anyone else struggling lately, roam free like a proud free wild bull elephant amongst the Serengeti with our tusks held high & pride in our stroll, and an air of "feck them all I'm off to the pub!"


  • #150
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    To maregal, and I think you know this, the problem with your use of females, is that you used the word men in literally the same sentence. If you didn't mean it in a degaratory way, why didn't you refer to men as males as well?


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  • #151
    hytrogen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    RDM_83 again wrote:
    Surely its better to reach out to them then and support a change in their thinking isn't it rather than further isolating them?

    Unfortunately like everything (perceived as) bad in this society, it gets swept under the rug and forgotten about..


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