2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

MRnotlob606 · 27-10-2016 10:15PM

Trump is very nasty.

KingBrian2 · 27-10-2016 10:28PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Trump is very nasty.

No more than the usual in American politics particular in the rural areas of the country. Proud of their country and tradition. I wouldn't forsake them for it. Plenty of racists where among the Obama fan club but they never had a controlling majority. The extreme left have also been radicalized by this election in a Nation that usually eschewed them to one side. A lot of Americans are just not represented at all that is why I believe Clinton to be the worse candidate. Trump at least wants to use his base to change America. Judging this on what I see before me now on the ground in America their could be a completely different picture.

alastair · 27-10-2016 10:42PM

gosplan wrote: »

. Trump wouldn't have gotten a shot without 8 years of liberalism and the long terms effects of the crash.

Jaysus! When did this happen?

BorneTobyWilde · 28-10-2016 12:56AM

So many new voters because of Trump. 1000's of new people who have never voted or taken parts in polls will be out for Trump in ever state and town.
How can these people be reflected in the current polls, I think they can't be. Who is going to ring a person who has never voted before to poll them.
I think Trump will get huge support on the day. The race is still close, I don't see a landslide victory for either.

BorneTobyWilde · 28-10-2016 01:09AM

Pence's dog dies and now his plane goes off end of runway . Having bad luck.

K-9 · 28-10-2016 01:18AM

Hillary is doing well with early voters though, it seems she is getting her vote out. Trump's problem is while he attracts a fervent following he also brings out votes for Hillary, some of which may not have bothered voting otherwise.

Hillary is also way ahead in the u-30 vote.

daithi7 · 28-10-2016 01:24AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Pence's dog dies and now his plane goes off end of runway . Having bad luck.

Ah but he picked a great candidate to be VP for..... he must feel really, really, really lucky!!!

P.s. it's this kind of self delusion that replaces the American dream these days for millions of Americans. Pence being VP to a racist, simplistic, dangerous, demagogue is only symptomatic of that kind of American and that kind of America. America badly needs to reinvent itself and find it's mojo again under the next president (I.e. Clinton) cos otherwise it's looking more and more like a rapidly deteriorating super power with an angrier and more isolated lower middle class with each passing year. And that's a pity, in a land of plenty it world be nicer if people were happier....And the world would also be a safer, more secure place if that was so.

RobertKK · 28-10-2016 03:34AM

I should be in bed, but I had CNN on there and Don Lemon is on, he started off his program by laughing at Donald Trump for saying Mike Pence and the people on the plane that skidded off the runway could have been in grave danger.
Very unprofessional, because the plane was going too fast on landing and started its landing too late on the runway and even damaged the runway at La Guardia.
Most people would have been terrified if they experienced that, and would not have seen it as funny.
Whether he likes someone or not, he should look at the human side of things and not make little of it, which he did by calling it minor, despite on Anderson Cooper's show, they said Pence and the people on the plane were very lucky as they were not far from having a real disaster.

aloyisious · 28-10-2016 03:50AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Has the former Clinton Foundation CEO Eric Braverman story being proved a hoax yet?
I can't find anywhere to say it has.

Have you checked with the FBI? They might ascertain the facts.

aloyisious · 28-10-2016 04:00AM

To those who'll be more directly affected by the outcome (US voters) here, how much do you think voting will be done on the basis of "I'm voting for him/her cos of whom the O/P is" rather than a more relevant "i'M voting for him/her cos I know he/she is a better candidate and will do a better job"?

dwayneshintzy · 28-10-2016 05:53AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So many new voters because of Trump. 1000's of new people who have never voted or taken parts in polls will be out for Trump in ever state and town.

Have you got links to show that Republican voter registration drives have been a massive success?

There was plenty of evidence prior to Obama's election that registration drives from the Democrats would be a significant factor. I hadn't heard anything indicating that would be the case for Republicans this year, though.

Carcharodon · 28-10-2016 05:54AM

aloyisious wrote: »

To those who'll be more directly affected by the outcome (US voters) here, how much do you think voting will be done on the basis of "I'm voting for him/her cos of whom the O/P is" rather than a more relevant "i'M voting for him/her cos I know he/she is a better candidate and will do a better job"?

Unfortunately not enough of the latter as people here seem to have this irrational sense of loyalty to their party, the whole two party system is a joke anyway but thats another discussion. Its scary how Republicans are able to convince themselves is a good candidate and better than Clinton, the man is the laughing stock of the rest of the world

Carcharodon · 28-10-2016 05:58AM

And to everyone trying to convince themselves the race is still close for the many unscientific reasons go to Vegas and put your house on it, you will get great odds

Igotadose · 28-10-2016 06:40AM

Carcharodon wrote: »

Unfortunately not enough of the latter as people here seem to have this irrational sense of loyalty to their party, the whole two party system is a joke anyway but thats another discussion. Its scary how Republicans are able to convince themselves is a good candidate and better than Clinton, the man is the laughing stock of the rest of the world

I'm in the group Carcharodon (great nick!) describes. Live here, US citizen, wife's a dual. Neither of us would've voted for HRC if there'd been a better candidate in any other party. Jill Stein's an opportunistic loon with situational ethics, her VP is some sort of space alien spawn, Gary Johnson's smoked too much weed and it's addled his brain, and Hair Furor...

So, holding our noses and voting for HRC since we CANNOT have Hair Furor in the WH. Period. If, say, Romney'd been the Republican nominee, well, that might've worked for us. If Sanders had been the nominee, we'd probably have voted for him.

Christy42 · 28-10-2016 07:47AM

aloyisious wrote: »

To those who'll be more directly affected by the outcome (US voters) here, how much do you think voting will be done on the basis of "I'm voting for him/her cos of whom the O/P is" rather than a more relevant "i'M voting for him/her cos I know he/she is a better candidate and will do a better job"?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-voters-arent-just-voting-against-trump/

I am not voting (I am Irish) but some Americans have already run he stats in this. People voting for Clinton is roughly in line with presidents not named Obama. People voting for Trump and not simply voting against Clinton is low.

gosplan · 28-10-2016 10:39AM

daithi7 wrote: »

Ah but he picked a great candidate to be VP for..... he must feel really, really, really lucky!!!

P.s. it's this kind of self delusion that replaces the American dream these days for millions of Americans. Pence being VP to a racist, simplistic, dangerous, demagogue is only symptomatic of that kind of American and that kind of America. America badly needs to reinvent itself and find it's mojo again under the next president (I.e. Clinton) cos otherwise it's looking more and more like a rapidly deteriorating super power with an angrier and more isolated lower middle class with each passing year. And that's a pity, in a land of plenty it world be nicer if people were happier....And the world would also be a safer, more secure place if that was so.

It's the death of small town America.

I think a lot is from the crash but a lot more is just capitalism eating itself.

The economy will be fine but it'll be focussed on a few people at the top.

But everyone below will just get more and more pissed off because the country is not working for them.

People are very quick to slag trump supporters and middle America but that kind of misses the point of what's going on.

TheOven · 28-10-2016 10:49AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Pence's dog dies and now his plane goes off end of runway . Having bad luck.

It is taking longer for Clinton to be blaimed for this than I expected.

Quin_Dub · 28-10-2016 11:14AM

gosplan wrote: »

It's the death of small town America.

I think a lot is from the crash but a lot more is just capitalism eating itself.

The economy will be fine but it'll be focussed on a few people at the top.

But everyone below will just get more and more pissed off because the country is not working for them.

People are very quick to slag trump supporters and middle America but that kind of misses the point of what's going on.

This is a very valid point.. Working class America has every reason to be angry at how things are working out (or not) for them right now and how wealth is being consolidated amongst a smaller and smaller group.

Which makes it all the more baffling that they picked a wealthy, entitled narcissist as their candidate of choice.

Setting aside all of his other multitude of failings , how anyone could perceive that he would fight for the average guy is unfathomable to me. Every single thing about him and his history indicates that he only cares about himself and will walk all over the little guy to get what he wants..

To be fair a similar claim could be leveled at the Clintons , but no one is labeling them as Champions of the common man as is being done with Trump...

However ,without question something will have to be done by the next administration to address the issues impacting the low to middle income group if they want US society to survive and thrive..

Sofa Spud · 28-10-2016 11:28AM

gosplan wrote: »

It's the death of small town America.

I think a lot is from the crash but a lot more is just capitalism eating itself.

The economy will be fine but it'll be focussed on a few people at the top.

But everyone below will just get more and more pissed off because the country is not working for them.

People are very quick to slag trump supporters and middle America but that kind of misses the point of what's going on.

Agreed - it's very easy to discount Trump supporters as emotional, America First racists but that ignores the very real frustration they have at how a lot of their lives have been thrown on the scrapheap of capitalism, where their local 'traditional' industries have been off-shored or just simply closed down and their real incomes continue to shrink.
They have seen their lives, in their view, being devalued or ignored and the 'elites' have done nothing for them, while they watch some people get a lot richer while they, increasingly, are either seen as working poor or just slipping further into poverty.

Then along comes a media star that they are familiar with, who has a lot of name recognition, telling them exactly what they want to hear, voicing their anger, perpetuating the feeling that the system is rigged against them, in a media landscape where balanced, nuanced reporting is, on the whole, non-existent and, naturally, they jump on board. They feel they have someone who will finally fight for them, and even though it seems pretty obvious that he won't, that this is nothing more than a vanity run that got out of control, they will not want to listen to that, they really need to believe someone is on their side and hence the passion in his supporters. The sad fact is that they will ultimately be disappointed, either if he wins and can't stop the trade deals, can't build the wall, can't make a material difference to their lives, or more likely he looses, and they feel they have been robbed again.

The market for a populist, anti-establishment figurehead (or demagogue, take your pick) clearly exists, the question is how will that market be exploited going forward? Because that's what will happen - their fear and anger will be exploited by a media-savvy figure-head, in a system fueled by special interest money and maintained in a media landscape focused purely on style and easy, sensationalist headlines and they will just get angrier and more disillusioned as the change they need, substantive change, will not happen....

derm0j073 · 28-10-2016 12:32PM

Sofa Spud wrote: »

The market for a populist, anti-establishment figurehead (or demagogue, take your pick) clearly exists, the question is how will that market be exploited going forward? Because that's what will happen - their fear and anger will be exploited by a media-savvy figure-head, in a system fueled by special interest money and maintained in a media landscape focused purely on style and easy, sensationalist headlines and they will just get angrier and more disillusioned as the change they need, substantive change, will not happen....

This is the big issue facing the GOP in the coming years , if they don't change there's a good chance a figure like you describe above can hijack the nomination . Bring the crazy and you'll have a shot at running for President .

Sofa Spud · 28-10-2016 12:48PM

derm0j073 wrote: »

This is the big issue facing the GOP in the coming years , if they don't change there's a good chance a figure like you describe above can hijack the nomination . Bring the crazy and you'll have a shot at running for President .

I think that's almost certainly going to happen. Look at the 'crazy creep' that's been happening over the last decade or so as the media landscape has turned into silos of echo chambers fueling the crazy - Palin, Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, Carson, Cruz - it's an ever growing list and the old school are being squeezed out. Would someone like McCain even have a chance at this stage? Look what happened with Gingrich and Christie this election cycle. Both would have been seen as being from the more sane side of the party, even if Gingrich has always been an ideologue on the more right of the party, and both ended up jumping on the Trump wagon.

Ryan has taken a really wobbly position in terms of not endorsing/endorsing, giving support but distancing himself and what would appear to have been his plan - get the speakership and then use that as spring board for 2020, would now appear to be in tatters. He may get some plaudits from inside the party if the GOP maintains the house, but if Trump comes close but loses, he can cry that he would have won if the leadership had supported him and Ryan could very well end up being part of the purge if the crazies take over.

It's hard to make a call on what will happen post election and post Trump's inevitable Twitter meltdown, but it's not going to be pretty....

A Little Pony · 28-10-2016 01:01PM

Congress will just block anything Hillary wants to do if she wins the election. So in a way this election is pointless if she wins as nothing will get done. I can only say thanks to Thomas Jefferson, Adams and the other Founding Fathers in this instance.

Ted Cruz has already said that is what congress plans on doing and I think if it saves the world from a war with Russia, then good.

rossie1977 · 28-10-2016 01:08PM

Carcharodon wrote: »

Unfortunately not enough of the latter as people here seem to have this irrational sense of loyalty to their party, the whole two party system is a joke anyway but thats another discussion. Its scary how Republicans are able to convince themselves is a good candidate and better than Clinton, the man is the laughing stock of the rest of the world

60 million people voted for a guy in poor health and his running mate Sarah Palin in 2008 despite the fact they were representing the party who had held power for 8 years while 800,000 people a month lost their jobs and the Dow plunged towards 6,000 rendering their retirement monies useless

There is a massive divide in the us and as much as people talk what they will and won't do, trump (despite being the most unqualified candidate ever to run for highest office on the planet) will garner a ton of votes

Sofa Spud · 28-10-2016 01:09PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Congress will just block anything Hillary wants to do if she wins the election. So in a way this election is pointless if she wins as nothing will get done. I can only say thanks to Thomas Jefferson, Adams and the other Founding Fathers in this instance.

Ted Cruz has already said that is what congress plans on doing and I think if it saves the world from a war with Russia, then good.

Could congress save the world from war with Russia? They've more or less given the President the power to intervene militarily without the need for congressional approval and any future conflict is likely to arise out of an escalation of a smaller intervention. Also, and I need to state that I am not a conspiracy nut or have any time for them, but the largest contributor to congressional campaigns, either through direct funding or the fact that they have manufacturing facilities in most key congressional districts, is the military industrial complex. They have experienced a boom over the past 15 years and they need something to maintain demand, which means something to deplete existing stocks, and that means hawks that will drive new conflicts. But how that could result in war with Russia is hard to see - mutually assured destruction hasn't gone away, you know....

A Little Pony · 28-10-2016 01:14PM

Sofa Spud wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Congress will just block anything Hillary wants to do if she wins the election. So in a way this election is pointless if she wins as nothing will get done. I can only say thanks to Thomas Jefferson, Adams and the other Founding Fathers in this instance.

Ted Cruz has already said that is what congress plans on doing and I think if it saves the world from a war with Russia, then good.

Could congress save the world from war with Russia? They've more or less given the President the power to intervene militarily without the need for congressional approval and any future conflict is likely to arise out of an escalation of a smaller intervention. Also, and I need to state that I am not a conspiracy nut or have any time for them, but the largest contributor to congressional campaigns, either through direct funding or the fact that they have manufacturing facilities in most key congressional districts, it the military industrial complex. They have experienced a boom over the past 15 years and they need something to maintain demand, which means something to deplete existing stocks, and that means hawks that will drive new conflicts. But how that could result in war with Russia is hard to see - mutually assured destruction hasn't gone away, you know....

Hillary is hated by Republicans in congress, I don't see her being able to get anything done. Obama has been a waste of time simply down to him not being able to do anything. No wonder he plays Golf all the time. It is actually the beauty of America that the President doesn't have all the power and can't just act like a dictator.

Although that doesn't stop dictatorial actions IF congress backs you as we seen with Iraq.

alastair · 28-10-2016 01:23PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Obama has been a waste of time simply down to him not being able to do anything. No wonder he plays Golf all the time. It is actually the beauty of America that the President doesn't have all the power and can't just act like a dictator.

Obama hasn't just been golfing - he's been busy working around a log jammed congress: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/us/politics/obama-era-legacy-regulation.html?_r=0

History may now judge the regulations to be one of Mr. Obama’s most enduring legacies. At the least, his exercise of administrative power expanded and cemented a domestic legacy that now rivals Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society in reach and scope.

In May, Mr. Obama was asked by a farmer in Elkhart, Ind., to justify the “dramatic increase” in government regulations that affected his business. “I’m not interested in regulating just for the sake of regulating,” Mr. Obama responded. “But there are some things like making sure we’ve got clean air and clean water, making sure that folks have health insurance, making sure that worker safety is a priority — that, I do think, is part of our overall obligation.”

Sofa Spud · 28-10-2016 01:37PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Hillary is hated by Republicans in congress, I don't see her being able to get anything done. Obama has been a waste of time simply down to him not being able to do anything. No wonder he plays Golf all the time. It is actually the beauty of America that the President doesn't have all the power and can't just act like a dictator.

Although that doesn't stop dictatorial actions IF congress backs you as we seen with Iraq.

Yeah, but it's also not great that a President that is elected with a mandate for their platform is unable to enact any or most of it into legislation because of congressional grid-lock.

Politics has become so adversarial that it's no longer about ideology or doing what's right for the country and it's all simply about winning, or more accurately, making the opposition look like they have lost. Even if the Dems win the Senate, which is looking possible, the now over-use of the filibuster ruling means they will still need 60 votes to get anything passed. The GOP House majority will be reduced - unlikely to lose the House but it could happen - so they will block everything and get nothing done themselves.

Hillary is hated, they have enough ammunition from wiki-leaks, Clinton Foundation and the beloved Benghazi to keep her tied up in congressional hearings and everyone will want to score points with their base by attacking her at every opportunity. The tin-foil hat wearing media will demonise her and, baring good mid-term elections, which is unlikely, the murky political cesspool will continue to stagnate.

Bi-partisanship, such as that shown by Tip O'Neil when he worked with Reagan, it not just a thing of the past, but is fundamentally impossible now, especially on the GOP side, as any compromise is seen as a sign of weakness and perpetrators will not even get past their next primary...

Zubeneschamali · 28-10-2016 01:39PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Congress will just block anything Hillary wants to do if she wins the election.

Equally, Hillary and the Dems in the Senate will block the Republican lunatics in the House from slashing taxes on the rich and running up the deficit as Paul Ryan would like.

So everyone is happy!

Amerika · 28-10-2016 01:49PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Equally, Hillary and the Dems in the Senate will block the Republican lunatics in the House from slashing taxes on the rich and running up the deficit as Paul Ryan would like.

So everyone is happy!

How exactly does Paul Ryan want to run up the deficit?

Zubeneschamali · 28-10-2016 01:56PM

Amerika wrote: »

How exactly does Paul Ryan want to run up the deficit?

By slashing taxes on the rich.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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