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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #4952
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    gosplan wrote: »
    So you're saying that Trump shouldn't be in cabinet but should be president?

    Riiiiigggghhhhhttttttt.

    More so than a one-term Senator who accomplished virtually nothing.


  • #4953
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Cabinet positions are given to people who have expertise in the areas of the appointment made by the president. What expertise did Hillary Clinton have?

    Yale graduate Hillary Clinton?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #4954
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    Yale graduate Hillary Clinton?
    Perhaps all Yale Graduates should move directly into cabinet and high ranking administrative positions of the most powerful country in the world after graduation. Now I have something else to get on my daughter’s back about for turning down Yale. I can now say... 'See, you could be running the whole damn country in less than three years... but noooooo, you had to be a big fish in a little pond! :P


  • #4955
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.so26085s3


    This is scary and proves fraud by the GOP.


  • #4956
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.so26085s3


    This is scary and proves fraud by the GOP.

    Add a context to links please instead of clickbait comments.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #4957
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.so26085s3


    This is scary and proves fraud by the GOP.
    a state is trying to deny 45,000 new voters the right to vote most of The of the 45,000 are African American!


  • #4958
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.so26085s3


    This is scary and proves fraud by the GOP.

    In mid-September, didn’t the Indiana Secretary of State determine this group turned in forged voter registration applications that had changed voters’ addresses to an address not associated with the voter, without the knowledge of the voter?


  • #4959
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Amerika wrote: »
    In mid-September, didn’t the Indiana Secretary of State determine this group turned in forged voter registration applications that had changed voters’ addresses to an address not associated with the voter, without the knowledge of the voter?

    Can you link to that report.


  • #4960
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    a state is trying to deny 45,000 new voters the right to vote most of The of the 45,000 are African American!

    I don't see what is scary. The state police in Indiana are investing if there is voter fraud.
    Why did these people leave voter registration to the last minute?
    Plus if there is suspicion it is better for democracy that it is investigated.


  • #4961
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Can you link to that report.
    Sure, here is the information you requested. Does it make any difference, or should we ignore these type of reports and stick to the myth of GOP fraud, because it plays well here to those who would rather avoid their eyes to media bias from the likes of ThinkProgress?

    http://fox59.com/2016/09/15/secretary-of-state-urges-hoosiers-to-check-their-voter-registration-after-reports-of-fraud/


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  • #4962
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    Amerika wrote: »
    More so than a one-term Senator who accomplished virtually nothing.

    One term?

    If you're giving out about the First Lady being a political appointment, that's fair enough.

    But then you're conceding that she's held a political office unbroken since 1993.


  • #4963
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    gosplan wrote: »
    One term?

    If you're giving out about the First Lady being a political appointment, that's fair enough.

    But then you're conceding that she's held a political office unbroken since 1993.

    I think you misunderstand me. I was referring to Barack Obama elected president after being a one-term US Senator that accomplished very little, other than campaigning for president during that term.


  • #4964
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    Perhaps all Yale Graduates should move directly into cabinet and high ranking administrative positions of the most powerful country in the world after graduation. Now I have something else to get on my daughter’s back about for turning down Yale. I can now say... 'See, you could be running the whole damn country in less than three years... but noooooo, you had to be a big fish in a little pond! :P

    I think they're calling it the Jameis Winston Award, for the brave young crableg go-getter that wishes he went to Stanford instead of earning the Heisman at FSU ;)


  • #4965
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    Sure, here is the information you requested. Does it make any difference, or should we ignore these type of reports and stick to the myth of GOP fraud, because it plays well here to those who would rather avoid their eyes to media bias from the likes of ThinkProgress?

    http://fox59.com/2016/09/15/secretary-of-state-urges-hoosiers-to-check-their-voter-registration-after-reports-of-fraud/

    They suspect 10 in 45,000; what happens to the other 44490 registered voters? Do they not get to vote?


  • #4966
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Overheal wrote: »
    I think they're calling it the Jameis Winston Award, for the brave young crableg go-getter that wishes he went to Stanford instead of earning the Heisman at FSU ;)
    Now that's funny. :)

    Did you see where the NFL is now blaming their ratings drop on the ‘unprecedented interest’ in this presidential election?


  • #4967
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Overheal wrote: »
    They suspect 10 in 45,000; what happens to the other 44490 registered voters? Do they not get to vote?

    The whole affair looks like it's hot air: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/10/26/marion-county-prosecutor-wades-into-voter-fraud-debate/92775908/

    The Indiana Superintendent Doug Carter seems like a particular hot air merchant.


  • #4968
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,542 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    As its sixteen years since the closest presidential election in history. A documentary about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcz6NSyxrfQ


  • #4969
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    After a few pages of discussion on the Clinton emails affair, I've decided to create a new thread based on some recent posts. Please continue that discussion here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #4970
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The NY Times is reporting that Hillary is ahead of Don by 5.6 % in the National Polling Average. In it's checking on the polls around the US, the Times reckons the overall status is that Hillary has a 92% chance to win the election. According to the report, the last update on the polls was sixteen (16) minutes ago. I don't know how regularly the poll average is checked for updates; hourly, 2 hourly or what.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjcsMPn1_vPAhUmLMAKHda5BKoQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2Finteractive%2F2016%2Fus%2Felections%2Fpolls.html&usg=AFQjCNGHEKxWLO_vPJELeBmVKmhWSnhEPQ

    RealClearPolitics seems to have a larger polls checklist when it comes to letting people work out how things are running...

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjcsMPn1_vPAhUmLMAKHda5BKoQFgggMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Flatest_polls%2Fpresident%2F&usg=AFQjCNEeUFcW18oUGM-xHcJ63CrocMdsNw


  • #4971
    httpete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭httpete


    aloyisious wrote: »
    The NY Times is reporting that Hillary is ahead of Don by 5.6 % in the National Polling Average. In it's checking on the polls around the US, the Times reckons the overall status is that Hillary has a 92% chance to win the election. According to the report, the last update on the polls was sixteen (16) minutes ago. I don't know how regularly the poll average is checked for updates; hourly, 2 hourly or what.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjcsMPn1_vPAhUmLMAKHda5BKoQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2Finteractive%2F2016%2Fus%2Felections%2Fpolls.html&usg=AFQjCNGHEKxWLO_vPJELeBmVKmhWSnhEPQ

    RealClearPolitics seems to have a larger polls checklist when it comes to letting people work out how things are running...

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjcsMPn1_vPAhUmLMAKHda5BKoQFgggMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Flatest_polls%2Fpresident%2F&usg=AFQjCNEeUFcW18oUGM-xHcJ63CrocMdsNw

    The NY Times? Who would have thought...just like CNN had Trump at 1% to win the Republican primaries. I am not a Trump supporter, I think he is not Presidential material, and I have no time for Clinton either. My pick was Rand Paul. In the previous election I think his father Ron Paul would have made a great President, its not often you find a politician with that kind of integrity and insight. Prior to that, I was very disappointed when Bush beat Al Gore, another man with rare integrity.

    But in terms of this election, the media has been an absolute disgrace. Clinton is undoubtedly the most corrupt candidate in the history of US politics and if the Democrats didn't have the system (justice system and media) entirely sewn up she would be facing serious several criminal charges. But the top level Democrats and their financial backers have subverted the state to such an unprecedented level they are essentially untouchable.


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  • #4972
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    httpete wrote: »
    The NY Times? Who would have thought...just like CNN had Trump at 1% to win the Republican primaries. I am not a Trump supporter, I think he is not Presidential material, and I have no time for Clinton either. My pick was Rand Paul. In the previous election I think his father Ron Paul would have made a great President, its not often you find a politician with that kind of integrity and insight. Prior to that, I was very disappointed when Bush beat Al Gore, another man with rare integrity.

    But in terms of this election, the media has been an absolute disgrace. Clinton is undoubtedly the most corrupt candidate in the history of US politics and if the Democrats didn't have the system (justice system and media) entirely sewn up she would be facing serious several criminal charges. But the top level Democrats and their financial backers have subverted the state to such an unprecedented level they are essentially untouchable.

    Yeah of what I saw of Ron Paul that guy really impressed me. He is a credit to the Republican party and he certainly stands tall among those in Congress. He also had exactly the same position as Sanders when it came to opposition to war. I salute him.


  • #4973
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    httpete wrote: »
    But in terms of this election, the media has been an absolute disgrace. Clinton is undoubtedly the most corrupt candidate in the history of US politics and if the Democrats didn't have the system (justice system and media) entirely sewn up she would be facing serious several criminal charges. But the top level Democrats and their financial backers have subverted the state to such an unprecedented level they are essentially untouchable.

    Any actual substance to go with the grand assertions about corruption?

    Several charges? For what exactly?

    Let's just leave the broader mass conspiracy theories where they belong.


  • #4974
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    He also had exactly the same position as Sanders when it came to opposition to war. I salute him.

    Ron Paul supported the war in Afghanistan, the NATO strikes in Kosovo, and the use of drones in the current conflicts? That's surprising.


  • #4975
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    httpete wrote: »
    The NY Times? Who would have thought...just like CNN had Trump at 1% to win the Republican primaries. I am not a Trump supporter, I think he is not Presidential material, and I have no time for Clinton either. My pick was Rand Paul. In the previous election I think his father Ron Paul would have made a great President, its not often you find a politician with that kind of integrity and insight. Prior to that, I was very disappointed when Bush beat Al Gore, another man with rare integrity.

    But in terms of this election, the media has been an absolute disgrace. Clinton is undoubtedly the most corrupt candidate in the history of US politics and if the Democrats didn't have the system (justice system and media) entirely sewn up she would be facing serious several criminal charges. But the top level Democrats and their financial backers have subverted the state to such an unprecedented level they are essentially untouchable.

    Erm, Trump is up on fraud charges, sexual assaults and harassment has become an issue for him too. Richard Nixon had that whole Watergate thing. But Hillary is the most corrupt? Right.........


  • #4976
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    alastair wrote: »
    Ron Paul supported the war in Afghanistan, the NATO strikes in Kosovo, and the use of drones in the current conflicts? That's surprising.

    All positions shared by most in Congress and allies of America even Russia helped out in the case of Afghanistan. He also strongly supports the principal role of the gvt to defend their Nation from foreign attacks. The 9/11 attacks were a direct attack on America by a foreign terrorist organization.


  • #4977
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    alastair wrote: »
    Any actual substance to go with the grand assertions about corruption?

    Several charges? For what exactly?

    Let's just leave the broader mass conspiracy theories where they belong.

    In fairness, and I'm totally impartial, there's a lot of muck in relation to the Clintonns, their public speaking and the whole private server thing.

    I think the sum total of it is...

    1: They are liberals who believe in supporting and helping the underprivileged. I think this is really important.

    2: They also had no problem using their profile to seriously enrich themselves. I don't think there was anything Illegal here, just poor judgement and a bit of a character flaw. Like if they could hit a bank for a 10 million donation to the foundation, then get a 200k speaking gig at the same time, why not. Bad call to be honest. Especially given how wealthy they are. However ex presidents as a rule do this.

    3: The email server was calculated. Secretary of State must have a lot of undesirable secrets/communications. Keep them in one place and hit delete. This was shrewd and probably necessary for someone who would be running for president.

    4: Bill Clinton's accusers are a bit dodge. I've no doubt he enjoyed everything his profile brought but I'd be very dubious that he raped anyone. I don't think this has any real relevance to this campaign.

    5: The above would rule HRC out against nearly everyone but Trump is so so woefully unsuited to a position of power. He's never had an altruistic bone in his body and that hasn't changed. This is all about him. He's ridden a xenophobic post financial crash wave of anger to get this far but wouldn't be a good president. Far too reactionary.

    I'm not hailing Obama as some kind of God but he was 100% the other day when he said Trump isn't suited because he can't handle things not going his way.

    He honestly has the temprement of a small child and that simply won't do.

    However corrupt and self serving you think HRC is, Trump is actually dangerous. Simply by running he's created massive divisions that will take years to repair. Imagine a Trump presidency.


  • #4978
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    gosplan wrote: »
    In fairness, and I'm totally impartial, there's a lot of muck in relation to the Clintonns, their public speaking and the whole private server thing.

    I think the sum total of it is...

    1: They are liberals who believe in supporting and helping the underprivileged. I think this is really important.

    2: They also had no problem using their profile to seriously enrich themselves. I don't think there was anything Illegal here, just poor judgement and a bit of a character flaw. Like if they could hit a bank for a 10 million donation to the foundation, then get a 200k speaking gig at the same time, why not. Bad call to be honest. Especially given how wealthy they are. However ex presidents as a rule do this.

    3: The email server was calculated. Secretary of State must have a lot of undesirable secrets/communications. Keep them in one place and hit delete. This was shrewd and probably necessary for someone who would be running for president.

    4: Bill Clinton's accusers are a bit dodge. I've no doubt he enjoyed everything his profile brought but I'd be very dubious that he raped anyone. I don't think this has any real relevance to this campaign.

    5: The above would rule HRC out against nearly everyone but Trump is so so woefully unsuited to a position of power. He's never had an altruistic bone in his body and that hasn't changed. This is all about him. He's ridden a xenophobic post financial crash wave of anger to get this far but wouldn't be a good president. Far too reactionary.

    I'm not hailing Obama as some kind of God but he was 100% the other day when he said Trump isn't suited because he can't handle things not going his way.

    He honestly has the temprement of a small child and that simply won't do.

    However corrupt and self serving you think HRC is, Trump is actually dangerous. Simply by running he's created massive divisions that will take years to repair. Imagine a Trump presidency.


    Except I would point one additional aspect out. Clinton shows a disregard for her fellow countrymen. IMO she would send more Americans and allies to their deaths in foreign wars and blame it on the Russians.


  • #4979
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    The thing is, even if you don't care for the speech fees, there's nothing inherently corrupt about them. The Clinton Foundation has its books audited and made public, the nod and a wink stuff about favours granted to both Foundation contributors and corporate speaker organisers has had zero substance when it comes down to it, and all the misappropriation stuff with regard to Haiti turns out to be guff.

    Hillary certainly knows how to work the system to her advantage, but that doesn't imply any degree of corruption. The 'cosiness' with corporate interests seems to stem from a pragmatism about power brokering, but, once you accept she's a centrist with little ideological motivations beyond the territory Bill operated in, that seems pretty much in tune with the platform she's pitching. She's the anti-outsider, but if she can apply that insider knowledge / political craft to at least some of her platform over 4/8 years, then it's not the worst proposition ever. The bull**** she serves up is grand, if she actually achieves something with it.


  • #4980
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Except I would point one additional aspect out. Clinton shows a disregard for her fellow countrymen. IMO she would send more Americans and allies to their deaths in foreign wars and blame it on the Russians.

    I don't think you'd see any full scale military operations under her. More special forces with allies type thing. But yeah, she could have bad judgement there.

    In short I think Clinton is pretending to be Bernie Sanders but realistically will be far more conservative/status quo.

    But the way these things work out is always screwy. Obama wouldn't have gotten in without Bush, the war and the crash. Trump wouldn't have gotten a shot without 8 years of liberalism and the long terms effects of the crash.

    Now Hillary's going to get in because of Trump.

    I doubt she'll ever be that popular but of the economy picks up (which will have nothing to do with her) she'll take all the credit and her popularity will rise.

    This is why the two party system is such a mess. It becomes a binary choice where unpopularity for your opponent or their predecessor means a win for you.

    If global economic forces lead to a downturn in the US, the opposite party will get in.

    Basically, their presidential election is more like a referendum. You're saying yes/no.


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  • #4981
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,275 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Has the former Clinton Foundation CEO Eric Braverman story being proved a hoax yet?
    I can't find anywhere to say it has.


This discussion has been closed.
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