The Recovery Has Barely Started And Dublin is at breaking point

Fratton Fred · 27-10-2016 02:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin needs a sustainable transport network. Transport routes that don't connect to anything isn't a network. The BXD works connects the green line to the redline, meaning someone in Cherrywood or Carrickmines can easily and reliably get to Heuston, Bus Aras and Connolly. The luas isnt the quickest but its a start.

I sometimes work in Citywest and the best way to get there is Luas to Dundrum, Dublin Coach to the Red Cow and Luas to Citywest. Thats a network. Getting the luas all the way into town, walking 20 minutes and then getting the luas all the way to citywest, total journey time about 20 hours, is not a network.

the entire Dublin transport network is based on getting people to O'Connell bridge. If you want to get from South to West it is a nightmare.

Fratton Fred · 27-10-2016 02:24PM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Tube technology is our only hope.:)

I remember someone telling me, several years ago, that a Japanese company offered to start building an underground network on the condition they had exclusive right to use it for ten years.

As it involved digging a massive hole in Stephens Green it was flatly refused.

Not sure how true this is, but if it is then someone needs to be hung drawn and quartered. The last thing Dublin needs is more trams and buses lanes taking up the roads, it needs an underground.

Walter H Price · 27-10-2016 02:28PM

stupid height restrictions in the city centre mean we still have single and two story houses with gardens right in the heart of the city centre , we need density , high rise glass and steel , offices aprtments etc the IFSC should be at least 2 to 3 times the size it currenly is. Infrastructure is a shambles other then buses most areas and close suburbs have no public transport and fairs for trains and busses from surrounding commuter counties are extreamly high.Airport connectivty and connectivy to the north county suburbs is shockingly poor without private operators it would be beyond grim.

Not enough shchools and to many of what is availible with religious ethos and discriminatory enrollment policys is a pain , the city needs at least 1 other major hospital either in the North or South County.

It's no surprise public servents , train drivers bus drivers teachers gards etc are looking for increases , the cost of living is sky rocketing in Dublin and wages have beyond failed to keep up.

lawred2 · 27-10-2016 02:29PM

well when you don't invest for the future what else can be expected

Money has never been cheaper and this government (and the one before) have nothing in the way of capital projects..

Waster Ross hasn't even got one new project to announce.

Dart should never have happened; it should have been the start of a Dublin Underground. Instead we got a bad fudge.

Luas should never have happened; it should have been the start of a Dublin Underground. Instead we got a bad fudge.

We really are poorly serviced by inadequate short termist politicians who don't want 20 year projects that yield no immediate kudos.

jackofalltrades · 27-10-2016 02:37PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

What are these subsidies that rural dwellers get anyway?

Local:rolleyes: property tax being re-distributed.
Your postal service.
Roads, electricity and rural transport.

Grayson wrote: »

See, this is the problem. Your solution to a nasty rent crises and increasing costs is to tax poor people more. You mention Scandinavian style services, well they pay more tax. The higher earners especially. You pay no state tax on roughly the first 40k a year. Yet it works because the government there realises that you need a certain amount to survive so they don't tax anyone on that. You get taxed heavily on the surplus.

There's no state tax but the low paid still pay local taxes, which are significant.
Also the top band of Income tax in Sweden doesn't kick in to 60,000 and is only 25%, according to your link.
Compared to here where you paying roughly 50% on all income over the national average.
People should be contributing something, not doing so is just creating a class of people that feel entitled to not pay any tax.
As we are seeing with sections of the water charge protests.

27-10-2016 02:43PM

aido79 wrote: »

The biggest problem in Ireland is that most things that the government do are reactive rather than proactive. It seems to be a case of let a crisis or problem occur and then try to figure out how to fix it rather than put some thought or planning into preventing it happening in the first place.

This is essentially the problem. Running a country is so important that planning needs to take place decades in advance. and not just for infrastructure, stuff like the number of graduates allowed to graduate in different fields should be limited with an honest eye to the likely future needs of the country, instead of training up way too many nurses, teachers and anything else and then it being a race to the bottom for wages and everyone else can f'cuk off out of the country.

MeatTwoVeg · 27-10-2016 03:42PM

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

MilesMorales1 · 27-10-2016 03:43PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

Are the people actually in charge doing any better?

lawred2 · 27-10-2016 03:51PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

so you'd argue that Dublin is well serviced by public transport?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-10-2016 03:54PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Local:rolleyes: property tax being re-distributed.
Your postal service.
Roads, electricity and rural transport.
.

I notice, since the boom and the crash was a largely Urban phenomenon, that none of the Urban community was looking for the bill for the crash to be retained to being paid for by our Urban brethren.

No, surprisingly, it turned into a community debt:rolleyes:

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2016 03:55PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Are the people actually in charge doing any better?

The problem is the people in charge have no idea how the things they look after actually work in reality as they don't have to experience them first hand day in day out.

MeatTwoVeg · 27-10-2016 03:57PM

MilesMorales1 wrote:

Are the people actually in charge doing any better?

Transport planners aren't in charge.

Politicians more interested in getting returned at the next election are determining capital expenditure budgets and what schemes are to be prioritised.

Fratton Fred · 27-10-2016 04:05PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

I'd like to ask the urban and transport planners the same thing.

MeatTwoVeg · 27-10-2016 04:15PM

Fratton Fred wrote:

I'd like to ask the urban and transport planners the same thing.

I'm sure they'd tell you.

If you need a heart operation, you'll probably get a heart surgeon to do it, rather than asking some randomer on the street.

If you want sustainable public infrastructure solutions, give more power to the professionals, take it out of the political sphere and stop pretending that Paddy from down the road's opinion is of equal merit.

Grayson · 27-10-2016 04:22PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Local:rolleyes: property tax being re-distributed.
Your postal service.
Roads, electricity and rural transport.

There's no state tax but the low paid still pay local taxes, which are significant.
Also the top band of Income tax in Sweden doesn't kick in to 60,000 and is only 25%, according to your link.
Compared to here where you paying roughly 50% on all income over the national average.
People should be contributing something, not doing so is just creating a class of people that feel entitled to not pay any tax.
As we are seeing with sections of the water charge protests.

People still pay. They pay VAT, water charges etc...

Here's the catch with your argument. If taxes were raised on lower paid people, I very much doubt you'd be happy with higher paid people paying more too.

Grayson · 27-10-2016 04:30PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I remember someone telling me, several years ago, that a Japanese company offered to start building an underground network on the condition they had exclusive right to use it for ten years.

As it involved digging a massive hole in Stephens Green it was flatly refused.

Not sure how true this is, but if it is then someone needs to be hung drawn and quartered. The last thing Dublin needs is more trams and buses lanes taking up the roads, it needs an underground.

The land around Dublin isn't great for underground development if I remember correctly. There are however loads of European cities that have excellent tram systems. When you say trams are taking up the roads I assume you mean from cars. Thing is that if you have more trams on the road then you have less cars.

Every-time I travel to somewhere like the Netherlands I'm amazed at how easily everything works. It's entirely possible to live there and not even consider buying a car.

I'm looking at a job in city west at the moment. I live in a north Kildare commuter town with regular train and bus links to Dublin. It's about 30 minutes to drive from city west from here. To get there on public transport I have to go into town and back out again. It takes about 2 hours. I could go to liffey valley, get another bus then get a tram and it's the same time.

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2016 05:14PM

Many of you complaining on here are as equally culpable as the politicians and planners.

When people like me said that the DART Underground and Metro North should never have been cancelled, the majority of you came in with 'buses are enough', 'we are not the same size as London', 'Dublin is too small and of low density' all are lies peddled by the Irish establishment so as not to do ANYTHING meaningful in Dublin.

Fuk London and Paris: BOSTON, AMSTERDAM, OSLO, MUNICH, PRAGUE, COPENHAGEN, HELSINKI, ZURICH and on and on and on.

All cities around the same size and population density as Dublin (some even smaller) and all have complex underground rail and metro systems.

You landed yourself in the shyte the politicians and thicko media landed you in and you repeated it without checking.

Dublin needed a Metro SYSTEM and especially the DART Underground 20 years ago. This is standard for cities of our size. We are European capital for christ sake, stop also comparing Dublin to Bristol and Leeds. We are losing out in global competitiveness massively with this because of this 'a few aul extra buses is enough' mentality. The top global competitiveness reports are dropping Dublin further down the list because they are amazed that Dublin has no underground rail system of any kind.

jackofalltrades · 27-10-2016 05:26PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I notice, since the boom and the crash was a largely Urban phenomenon, that none of the Urban community was looking for the bill for the crash to be retained to being paid for by our Urban brethren.

No, surprisingly, it turned into a community debt:rolleyes:

Yeah not the first time I've see this argument and I still don't buy it.
All regions both urban and rural benefited from the boom.

Grayson wrote: »

People still pay. They pay VAT, water charges etc...

And why can't they pay some of their income in tax? Even just a tiny percentage.
I'd say most of the proponents of the Swedish taxation model would baulk at the idea that it applies to all wage levels.

Here's the catch with your argument. If taxes were raised on lower paid people, I very much doubt you'd be happy with higher paid people paying more too.

That's not a catch in my argument.
When it comes to income tax no, I think people are already paying enough.
Increasing it will just lead to people moving elsewhere.

Harvey Normal · 27-10-2016 05:28PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

This is a discussion forum

You're quite happy to opine yourself of course. Just not that sanely. You want intercity rail done away with.

.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-10-2016 05:41PM

[quote="Grayson;101481900"

I'm looking at a job in city west at the moment. I live in a north Kildare commuter town with regular train and bus links to Dublin. It's about 30 minutes to drive from city west from here. To get there on public transport I have to go into town and back out again. It takes about 2 hours. I could go to liffey valley, get another bus then get a tram and it's the same time.[/quote]

The country bus will stop at Rathcoole if you ask the driver and then get the 69 to Citywest

Kadser · 27-10-2016 05:48PM

sonny.roofer wrote: »

Have they no homes to go to?

Down the country.

Dyr · 27-10-2016 05:49PM

I want to know when something is going to be done about that lovindublin ****e

not even from dublin.. the nordie pox

ChikiChiki · 27-10-2016 06:35PM

Grayson wrote: »

The land around Dublin isn't great for underground development if I remember correctly. There are however loads of European cities that have excellent tram systems. When you say trams are taking up the roads I assume you mean from cars. Thing is that if you have more trams on the road then you have less cars.

Every-time I travel to somewhere like the Netherlands I'm amazed at how easily everything works. It's entirely possible to live there and not even consider buying a car.

I'm looking at a job in city west at the moment. I live in a north Kildare commuter town with regular train and bus links to Dublin. It's about 30 minutes to drive from city west from here. To get there on public transport I have to go into town and back out again. It takes about 2 hours. I could go to liffey valley, get another bus then get a tram and it's the same time.

I think we may live in the same town. Similar to yourself I have a 6 month job lined up for Leopardstown. I'm not taking it if I have to spend 3-4 hours each day travelling on different methods public transport so will lease a car for six months instead if they agree to upping my rate. I will only spend about 1.5hrs a day in the car compared to public transport. It's a quality of life thing so I can do hobbies in the evening.

These reasons are why the roads are clogged up. Public transport is not connected well enough and forces people into their cars.

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2016 06:38PM

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I've been saying in quite a few other threads. Dublin needs capital investment clearly but what Ireland needs more is investment in a counterbalance to Dublin. Dublin has seen the lions share of inward investment in the last 30 years and is now unable to take anymore. It's time to look at our other cities and large towns as a way to relieve this.

Yes you are right. Lets continue on with building more one off houses and extend the Western Rail Corridor to Derry so 30 executives will communicate to IT development centers that don't exist.

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2016 06:39PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Dublin needs an elected Mayor. Hard to see how the city will ever get a coherent plan otherwise.

Won't happen as he/she would be the most powerful politician in the country and Parish Pump will keep on killing it.

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2016 06:44PM

gandalf wrote: »

I think people have come up with some of the solutions in this thread.

For Dublin there needs to be a cohesive plan especially for transport and public transport. For this a publicly elected Mayor is needed with some real power to enact change.

In reality too much is Dublin Centric in this country. One of the other cities needs to be built up from an Infrastructure perspective. Cork with the Port and Limerick with Shannon airport would be obvious choices. Build up the Infrastructure services around one of these and provide incentives for companies to locate there.

FFS there have been dozens of these plans and the Government(s) bins them all after the dinosaurs in the media have been given enough time to savage them into oblivion.

Remember the Irish Times coming out against the Stephen's Green station because some British Colonialist War Memorial was to be removed temporarily? The completely bizarre Ciaran Cuffe of the Greens actively campaigning against rail project in Dublin (where he was elected to represent) while having sperm stains in the front of his pants while promoting the Western Rail Corridor white elephant a hundred miles away.

This is what you are up against in this country.

lisasimpson · 27-10-2016 08:35PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Obviously a gradual push of course over time. Its nonsensical and not very cost effective to be maintaining infrastructure to houses located about 500 mtrs apart located from each other and about 25 miles from the nearest urban centre.

For a start not everyone wants to live in cities.
I wasnt even talking boardband to houses 25 miles from an urban center. There are many towns around ireland where broadband is terrible talk to some same business and they will tell you about how a file can take an age to download.these are towns were many family facilities already exist ie gp surgeries schools etc
There are so many benefits if there was proper broadband around the country. For employers it helps with office space issue..if we are to attract brexit jobs we need office space which there is a lack of. Many IT companies for example allow work from home
For employees less time spent communting more time at home with family in the evening helps reduce wear and tear costs on cars supports local town and villages, its heathlier more time to exercise/go to the gym (last thing youd want to do if you dont get home from work at 7 and 8 at night

smurgen · 27-10-2016 09:21PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm not denigrating it at all, but using GDP in this country as any sort of indicator has serious flaws, due to the MNCs channeling their profits through here.

Two of the largest companies in the country, in terms of revenue, are based out of a solicitors office on Sir John Rogerson Quay and employ a handful of people.

That's not GDP of this country,it's Europe,it's a european study.take a look at the link.are you trying to tell me dublin subsideses cork because i can get you more links to show the contrary?

jimmy blevins · 27-10-2016 09:48PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Never realised there were so many transport planners on Boards.

It's a lot of the problem actually. Self professed experts go on the media every day unchallenged to offer their opinions on what infrastructure the country needs. Just once I'd like an interviewer to ask them "so where did you study for your urban and transport planning degree.

Given some of the bizarre planning decisions, politically driven no doubt, maybe giving some boardsies a go could at worst no better than the current shower.

Fratton Fred · 27-10-2016 10:37PM

smurgen wrote: »

That's not GDP of this country,it's Europe,it's a european study.take a look at the link.are you trying to tell me dublin subsideses cork because i can get you more links to show the contrary?

I'm not saying any one subsidises any one else, all I am saying is that the European head office of the worlds largest company is there, which will skew the GDP figures somewhat.

The Recovery Has Barely Started And Dublin is at breaking point

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