The Recovery Has Barely Started And Dublin is at breaking point

MilesMorales1

https://lovindublin.com/opinion/the-recovery-has-barely-started-and-dublin-is-already-at-breaking-point

We've all heard stories of the excess that took place in those days, high-fliers pissed on champagne mojitos and jetting off to Bulgarian property expos trying to figure out what to do with all their new found "spare" cash that the banks had given them.

The Government at this time were running a huge budget surplus but this being Ireland, very little of it was used to improve the infrastructure in the city, with the exception of the Luas. Even that was so poorly thought out that today Dublin city centre looks like a war zone as they frantically try and connect the two lines over a decade later.

I'm in City centre every day and I agree very much with the sentiments in this article. The town currently looks awful, traffic is awful with the constant work being down. Nothing has been done about the anti social elements, which while not being as bad as people say is bad enough. It's just grey and dour and depressing and it doesn't feel like much of a recovery, even if it was. And thats to say nothing of the parts of the country that haven't had the recovery.

Arcade_Tryer

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Nothing has been done about the anti social elements

The homeless..?

MilesMorales1

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The homeless..?

And the aggressive junkies and aggressive beggars yes.

tigger123

There's A LOT of winos hanging around town these days.

sonny.roofer

Have they no homes to go to?

LordSutch

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

The Recovery Has Barely Started And Dublin is at breaking point

So its only right then that we invite all the London City banks over 'post Brexit' :cool:

Pinch Flat

Years of underinvestment has got us where we are. We underinvest in virtually everything - public infrastructure, health, education, social services. The evidence is all around for us to see.

enricoh

Peanuts spent on infrastructure in the last 10 years because it's a lot easier politically for the government to save on capital spending than current spending.

No one will be whining on Joe Duffy if a road doesn't get upgraded , but cutting any social welfare or public servants pay equals war!

smurgen

The rental situation is out of control.double rooms in shared houses going for 800-1000 and singles going up to 700.wages didn't rise to match the jump in the cost of living.i will be moving abroad again in the next 12-18 months.

James Bond Junior

I've been saying in quite a few other threads. Dublin needs capital investment clearly but what Ireland needs more is investment in a counterbalance to Dublin. Dublin has seen the lions share of inward investment in the last 30 years and is now unable to take anymore. It's time to look at our other cities and large towns as a way to relieve this.

ChikiChiki

Bad governments full of greedy self interested individuals with no ambition for the country. Thats our problem there. No investment in the future even when Britain has voted for Brexit we are slow to get the infrastructure in to maximise the opportunity. Instead let's have some giveaway budgets and get the people on side is the Govts mantra. Historically speaking we wait for the issues to arise and people to kick up a fuss before doing something. Brexit will further reduce supply and push rents up as top talent migrates over, no doubt about it. The country is like it's in a slow car crash and I expect mass protests around various social issues in the next few years.

We could be have been European Singapore if we really wanted to with top class infrastructure and living standards but the chance will be lost. So frustrating.

MilesMorales1

I'm not a smart man, but why did it take 12 years was it, to link the two Luas lines up?

Pinch Flat

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I'm not a smart man, but why did it take 12 years was it, to link the two Luas lines up?

It's actually longer. 1998 when they were mulling it over. Political interference and vested interests ensured it was delayed. Another problem with the country - its planned election to election, so anything longer than that is going to take decades to realise.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealedorourke-lost-bid-to-link-luas-26451584.html

Fratton Fred

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's actually longer. 1998 when they were mulling it over. Political interference and vested interests ensured it was delayed. Another problem with the country - its planned election to election, so anything longer than that is going to take decades to realise.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealedorourke-lost-bid-to-link-luas-26451584.html

Or to put it another way, London planned and built cross rail in about the same time

Bonzo Delaney

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I'm not a smart man, but why did it take 12 years was it, to link the two Luas lines up?

because it would of been the logical thing to do , we don't do logical

JupiterKid

The housing crisis is the biggest and most urgent problem facing Dublin. It's a disgrace.

The lack of spending on public transport infrastructure is a scandal.

Dublin needs to have the pressure taken off it. There were opportunities to do this by developing the provincial cities as a counterbalance but this has IMO now passed.

yermanoffthetv

enricoh wrote: »

Peanuts spent on infrastructure in the last 10 years because it's a lot easier politically for the government to save on capital spending than current spending.

No one will be whining on Joe Duffy if a road doesn't get upgraded , but cutting any social welfare or public servants pay equals war!

I know I'm going to get some stick for this and people are going to say it's the least of our problems but I was walking around Cork at the weekend and noticed how shabby and half arsed the public realm is. Broken pavements, the odd shovel of tarmac thrown here and there, bike lanes that run for one street, dingey unlit streets and a complete lack of adequate green spaces and landscaping.(I'm not having a go at Cork here, all towns and cities are guilty of this)

It's a shame because our cities could be much nicer places to live if comparatively modest improvements were made. I mention this only because if we can't get these relatively simple things right what hope is there for forwarded thinking in integrated transport and progressive urban planning

511

ChikiChiki wrote: »

We could be have been European Singapore if we really wanted to with top class infrastructure and living standards but the chance will be lost. So frustrating.

You'd have to migrate everybody to Dublin to be like Singapore. High density city-states are easier to manage and are very prosperous.

A major problem in this country is parish pump politics. With about 35 - 40% of our population living rural, we have too many TDs looking after rural areas while neglecting Dublin. There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

JustTheOne

And the fact that a certain section relies on mister tax payer to fund certain lifestyles and we have elected politicians backing them up.

Hi Paul, Ruth, Claire, mick.

It's unsustainable but when these people go to the papers with sob stories politicians are scared ****less there will be a mob outside their house and they win.

We need a government who will make the hard decisions that will annoy people but is good for the country in the long run.

No more pandering to every section who cries and moans.

The situation in Dublin now is a mess - the price of housing is so ridiculously expensive that peoples' lives are being ruined having to commute 4 hours a day to work in the only place there are any jobs. But, but, muh free market economics .... whatever, but don't pretend human beings don't have emotions and that having to commute so far to work doesn't make them depressed. So much for the quality of life improving as time passes. No amount of comfortable beds, smart tvs, gourmet food can make up for the depression that results if you don't have a high-flying career (which used to be noteworthy but is now considered baseline), nice house (which used to be attainable in a decent job but now is both baseline and requires two people to work in great jobs) and if you do attain these things, the price you are paying mentally is usually so great that you don't even get any pleasure out of them, and because they are considered baseline nowadays all you are doing is staving off feelings of inferiority, rather than relishing your material comforts which your ancestors would have been rolling on the floor laughing at because they are so luxurious. If we think things are bad now, I feel for the generation coming down the tracks - psychological battlefield they are being born into.

JustTheOne

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The situation in Dublin now is a mess - the price of housing is so ridiculously expensive that peoples' lives are being ruined having to commute 4 hours a day to work in the only place there are any jobs. But, but, muh free market economics .... whatever, but don't pretend human beings don't have emotions and that having to commute so far to work doesn't make them depressed. So much for the quality of life improving as time passes. No amount of comfortable beds, smart tvs, gourmet food can make up for the depression that results if you don't have a high-flying career (which used to be noteworthy but is now considered baseline), nice house (which used to be attainable in a decent job but now is both baseline and requires two people to work in great jobs) and if you do attain these things, the price you are paying mentally is usually so great that you don't even get any pleasure out of them, and because they are considered baseline nowadays all you are doing is staving off feelings of inferiority, rather than relishing your material comforts which your ancestors would have been rolling on the floor laughing at because they are so luxurious. If we think things are bad now, I feel for the generation coming down the tracks - psychological battlefield they are being born into.

Agree on some points.

Humans are the best on the planet at adapting.

Do you think countries around the world don't experience the same or worst and are still functioning?

ChikiChiki

JustTheOne wrote: »

Agree on some points.

Humans are the best on the planet at adapting.

Do you think countries around the world don't experience the same or worst and are still functioning?

We have an serious escalating problem here in Ireland with suicide amongst men. I'm convinced our society is getting sicker and some of the reasons Onionbelt has mentioned are a part cause. It's staggering the amount of people who have took their lives and had mental breakdowns in my area (commuter town in North Kildare).

Thundercats Ho

LordSutch wrote: »

So its only right then that we invite all the London City banks over 'post Brexit' :cool:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or to put it another way, London planned and built cross rail in about the same time

Jesus, would ye give it a rest for 5 fvcking minutes.

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Agree on some points.

Humans are the best on the planet at adapting.

Do you think countries around the world don't experience the same or worst and are still functioning?

If the rest of the world has it worse, either because the problems of extreme poverty outweigh the problems like those above, or else because the problems like those above are even worse, then I concede they have it worse. But accepting that I form my perspective using my natural reference points which are other people living in Ireland, things look and feel pretty bad. Things can be bad even if others have it worse.

It is worth admitting to oneself also that it is a fact that once a person or population becomes used to having their basic needs met, like most of us nowadays in Ireland are, then we can't help but begin to experience our waking minutes being mentally occupied with more self-absorbed, mundane stuff - suddently social stuff starts to impact more on our minds than having enough for food, electricity etc.

WesternZulu

511 wrote: »

There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

To be honest such a mentality is regressive rather than progressive.
What are these subsidies that rural dwellers get anyway?

Citroen2cv

511 wrote: »

A major problem in this country is parish pump politics. With about 35 - 40% of our population living rural, we have too many TDs looking after rural areas while neglecting Dublin. There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

Noboday said we want companies to set up in rural area. It would make sense to encourage them to setup in Irelands other cities. We need a second city in Ireland, to take the pressure off Dublin in 2 ways:

• Transport Infrastructure is at breaking point in Dublin
• Housing crisis in Dublin - There has been so much talk of housing crisis in last ~ 3 years, but very few new affordable houses built

andekwarhola

Voters contribute to a culture where tax reductions are prioritized over infrastructure and transport investment in the good times and then whinge when we have things like the main orbital motorway for the capital city essentially being a car park at peak times.

stateofflux

the M50 took decades to complete. it will be decades before another one is finished.

gramar

511 wrote: »

You'd have to migrate everybody to Dublin to be like Singapore. High density city-states are easier to manage and are very prosperous.

A major problem in this country is parish pump politics. With about 35 - 40% of our population living rural, we have too many TDs looking after rural areas while neglecting Dublin. There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

Rubbish...Dublin is being neglected? Cozy lifestyle? Come on....
The whole problem in Ireland is that no government has ever had a plan to develop multiple urban areas in cities like Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick so they have the required infrastructure to attract business which in turn attracts workers who settle there thereby spreading the burden.

Everything in Ireland is Dublin-centric but it's not because people necessarily want to be there. The country is woefully unbalanced and instead of taking measures to resolve it straw is continually heaped onto an already broken camel's back.

_Brian

This is a result of poor planning yet again.

Focus has been to create recovery within the greater Dublin area and now the results are being seen.

Again we have created too much economic activity in an area with no housing and not enough transport infrastructure.

Pepe LeFrits

Dublin needs an elected Mayor. Hard to see how the city will ever get a coherent plan otherwise.

HensVassal

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

https://lovindublin.com/opinion/the-recovery-has-barely-started-and-dublin-is-already-at-breaking-point




I'm in City centre every day and I agree very much with the sentiments in this article. The town currently looks awful, traffic is awful with the constant work being down. Nothing has been done about the anti social elements, which while not being as bad as people say is bad enough. It's just grey and dour and depressing and it doesn't feel like much of a recovery, even if it was. And thats to say nothing of the parts of the country that haven't had the recovery.

It's the end of October, dude.

valoren

Train tracks are ching ching, bit 'o cash. Know what I mean?

MilesMorales1

HensVassal wrote: »

It's the end of October, dude.

It's also like that all year round.

Harvey Normal

JupiterKid wrote: »

The housing crisis is the biggest and most urgent problem facing Dublin. It's a disgrace.

The lack of spending on public transport infrastructure is a scandal.

Dublin needs to have the pressure taken off it. There were opportunities to do this by developing the provincial cities as a counterbalance but this has IMO now passed.

It's not just the politicians. Water charges generated more angst, more protests, more column inches than the rental crisis for the last few years. Whole new parties were formed to combat two taxes. The left was more concerned about property taxes than rental payments.

Why would politicians do anything if there's no fuss?

SEPT 23 1989

fill in the both canals and run high speed rail lines on it

LuckyLloyd

The LUAS cross city track is a terrible folly. Massive disruption for an ultimately slow and windy tram that will solve no major demand issues. The length and level of upheaval in the city centre (and the project is actually flying relative to its timetable!) is demoralising.

Dart Underground, two decades ago, please.

Dravokivich

511 wrote: »

You'd have to migrate everybody to Dublin to be like Singapore. High density city-states are easier to manage and are very prosperous.

A major problem in this country is parish pump politics. With about 35 - 40% of our population living rural, we have too many TDs looking after rural areas while neglecting Dublin. There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

How do we transition Rural to Urban, if we don't invest in the rural locations so they can support it?

aido79

The biggest problem in Ireland is that most things that the government do are reactive rather than proactive. It seems to be a case of let a crisis or problem occur and then try to figure out how to fix it rather than put some thought or planning into preventing it happening in the first place.

tobsey

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

fill in the both canals and run high speed rail lines on it

There are already tracks running alongside the two canals. The rail comapanies bought the canals for that purpose.

gandalf

I think people have come up with some of the solutions in this thread.

For Dublin there needs to be a cohesive plan especially for transport and public transport. For this a publicly elected Mayor is needed with some real power to enact change.

In reality too much is Dublin Centric in this country. One of the other cities needs to be built up from an Infrastructure perspective. Cork with the Port and Limerick with Shannon airport would be obvious choices. Build up the Infrastructure services around one of these and provide incentives for companies to locate there.

Annasopra

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

https://lovindublin.com/opinion/the-recovery-has-barely-started-and-dublin-is-already-at-breaking-point




I'm in City centre every day and I agree very much with the sentiments in this article. The town currently looks awful, traffic is awful with the constant work being down. Nothing has been done about the anti social elements, which while not being as bad as people say is bad enough. It's just grey and dour and depressing and it doesn't feel like much of a recovery, even if it was. And thats to say nothing of the parts of the country that haven't had the recovery.

Bit of a daft article

Time to invest but slag off where there is investment

Annasopra

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I'm not a smart man, but why did it take 12 years was it, to link the two Luas lines up?

Fianna fail stupidity in building 2 separate lines in the first place

Annasopra

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

I know I'm going to get some stick for this and people are going to say it's the least of our problems but I was walking around Cork at the weekend and noticed how shabby and half arsed the public realm is. Broken pavements, the odd shovel of tarmac thrown here and there, bike lanes that run for one street, dingey unlit streets and a complete lack of adequate green spaces and landscaping.(I'm not having a go at Cork here, all towns and cities are guilty of this)

It's a shame because our cities could be much nicer places to live if comparatively modest improvements were made. I mention this only because if we can't get these relatively simple things right what hope is there for forwarded thinking in integrated transport and progressive urban planning

Very true. Our local governments have been syarved of funding because of austerity and so our towns and cities have suffered.

Buford T. Justice XIX

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

fill in the both canals and run high speed rail lines on it

What do you think would happen to the water that normally flows through these canals?

Where exactly will it go?:D

Mary63

Patrick Kavanagh will turn in his grave if we fill in the canals."Oh,commemorate me where there is water".

Thats a ridiculous suggestion.

suicide_circus

All this....and they're removing the USC....1/3 of working people already pay NO income tax and the government are getting rid of a progressive catch all revenue stream in order to buy another election.

This at a time when we still have enormous national debt, with the uncertainty of Brexit looming round the corner for which we have no money put aside (much less a plan), with our young people barely able to house themselves, with every single one of our teachers, garda, nurses, public servants looking for money owed while all being paid with borrowed money anyway.

Precarious isn't the word. We lurch from crisis to fiasco. Planning, oversight, strategy, prudence - these are words which have no meaning in an Irish context. We're all happy for successive governments to buy our votes with the crumbs they offer paid for with borrowed money that our children will have to pay back. Each sector of society more than ready to throw their neighbour under the bus for a pittance.

If you want nice things, you have to pay for them. This means EVERY SINLGE person earning a cent has to contribute. The current system whereby everything earned over 33k is taxed at 51% while 1/3 of people pay nothing is stupid beyond belief. The same populist pirates who endorse this cluster*ck of a tax system are the same ones demanding Scandinavian style services and infrastructure. Their cretinism beggars belief.

snubbleste

Are you saying That Joe Duffy is right when he says Dublin is an UNADULTERATED KIP?

Jawgap

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Dublin needs an elected Mayor. Hard to see how the city will ever get a coherent plan otherwise.

A purely pointless exercise because there is no way the Dept of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government will vest in the office the executive powers necessary to make a difference, nor will they give the necessary spending powers in case it becomes a power-base that threatens them or the government - someone with a mandate from over a quarter of the population would represent a significant political force, and that won't be acceptable to the government.

If we do get a directly elected executive mayor for the capital, they'll probably only have very limited executive powers.

smurgen

511 wrote: »

ChikiChiki wrote: »

We could be have been European Singapore if we really wanted to with top class infrastructure and living standards but the chance will be lost. So frustrating.

You'd have to migrate everybody to Dublin to be like Singapore. High density city-states are easier to manage and are very prosperous.

A major problem in this country is parish pump politics. With about 35 - 40% of our population living rural, we have too many TDs looking after rural areas while neglecting Dublin. There's no future in rural Ireland, it can't be fixed. All the companies want to set up in urban areas. The trend is towards urbanization and most industrialized nations have small rural populations.

We need to cancel the rollout of fibre optic to rural areas and gradually remove subsidies to rural-dwellers, just bankrupt them of of their cozy lifestyle.

Cork is the highest GDP per person in Europe, not just Ireland. Maybe we should just pull our subsidies from Dublin and bankrupt them? http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/revealed-the-county-that-generates-the-most-revenue-in-the-state-35031768.html

Snakeblood

snubbleste wrote: »

Are you saying That Joe Duffy is right when he says Dublin is an UNADULTERATED KIP?

Maybe it's just an adulterated kip?