Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

KERSPLAT! · 27-10-2016 1:11am

BabyE wrote: »

Is there a more depressing place in the world than NW Europe for the next 4 months? Its **** everywhere, London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, you name it.

Syria?

darkpagandeath · 27-10-2016 1:12am

Farmers with no lights would get lost.

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:10am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If clocks were left forward the year round then farmers and other outdoor workers lose an hour in the morning, not to mention commuters. In some more northern areas sunrise wouldn't occur until close to 10AM at the most extreme.

??? Same amount of daylight, no matter what 'time' it is...

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:38am

Ah, you mean an hour of daylight, I'm thinking? Still the same amount of daylight though.

Also, the reason that the switch happens over a bank holiday weekend is because (especially in Spring when the clock goes forward and so we lose an hour of sleep) the lost sleep can push a person suffering from sleep deprivation over the edge and make them more likely to have an accident (especially when driving). Same, but less so, in Autumn - sleep/wake cycle is disturbed; accidents can happen. People can get cranky...

Third_Echelon · 27-10-2016 2:41am

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Right so this Saturday night the clocks go back an hour.
Why do we have to do this?
Does this happen all over the world this weekend?

I get the argument that it was to help schoolchildren get to school in the mornings. But that was when most children walked or cycled to school.
Nowadays kids are driven to school by their parents or schoolbus.

Are there any other reasons why the clocks have to go back an hour?

Can we just not leave it the way it is.
I like my bright evenings.:mad:

The US changes 2 weeks later than Ireland, so instead of 5 hour time difference to the east coast, it's 4 hours for those 2 weeks.

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:43am

BabyE wrote: »

Is there a more depressing place in the world than NW Europe for the next 4 months? Its **** everywhere, London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, you name it.

High up (or anywhere) in the Arctic Circle? Cabin fever.

getzls · 27-10-2016 2:48am

Put the clocks to Dublin railway times.
That will confuse everyone.

LordSutch · 27-10-2016 6:11am

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Officially speaking the Standard Time Act of 1968 states that time in the State shall be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year. The 1971 amendment to the Act requires that GMT be followed during the winter. It all amounts to the same thing, but legally we are one hour behind standard time in the winter whereas the UK is one hour ahead of it's standard time in the summer. The same, but different. If we and the UK were to use only our legal standard times all year round we would be one hour ahead of them.

I never realised the ROI was on a different time zone to the UK until now. So technically we already have two time zones on this island, soon to be followed with two trading zones, one inside the EU and the other part 'up North' outside the EU. Add this to the governments insistence that we are no longer part of the British isles (announced about twelve years ago) and it all adds up to an ever widening (geo-eco-political-time-gulf) opening up between Ireland & the UK.

...not withstanding the fact that many Radio controlled clocks here in Ireland (probably some in Leinster house) are governed by the GMT/BST time signal from Anthorne/Cumbria, which means that in reality we still run on UK time. So maybe we're not that far apart after all

)

Peregrinus · 27-10-2016 6:27am

LordSutch wrote: »

I never realised the ROI was on a different time zone to the UK until now . . .

We're not in a different time zone. We're in the same time zone; we just use different terminology to describe it. But that's common.

For international and comparative purposes, timezones are defined by their offset from Universal Co-ordinated Time ("UTC"). The UK and the Republic (and Portugal, apart from the Azores) are on UTC+0 in the winter, and UTC+1 in the summer. Each of the three countries used different terminology locally to refer to standard time, but they're all in the same time zone.

Ireland is unusual in naming summer time as the "standard" and winter time as the "exception"; this is a historical accident, basically. Ireland adopted standard time in 1880, mainly to suit the railway companies. Standard time for Ireland, known as "Dublin Mean Time" was based on mean time at Dunsink Observatory, and was about 25 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time, which was adopted as the standard for Britain. (There were no railways running between Britain and Ireland, for obvious reasons, so nobody saw any need to adopt the same standard time for both.)

In 1916, Greenwich Mean Time was adopted as the standard time for Ireland, this time mainly to suit the telegraph business. In 1925, after a couple of experiments, summer time (GMT + 1) was introduced.

In 1968 both Britain and Ireland decided to switch to GMT+1 year-round, in anticipation of membership of the EEC. (This would put them on the same time as the existing EU member states, which in those days did not observe summer time.) In Ireland we did this, logically enough, with an Act of the Oireachtas declaring GMT+1 to be standard time for Ireland. However the experiment wasn't judged to be a success, and in 1971 we reverted to GMT in the winter, GMT+1 in the summer. Since there was already legislation in place declaring GMT+1 to be Irish Standard Time, this was done by amending the legislation to provide for GMT to be observed during winter.

LordSutch · 27-10-2016 6:36am

Thanks for that, although my 'Time Zone' post was somewhat tongue in cheek.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:08am

goose2005 wrote:

It never had anything to do with farmers, sure they have to work by natural light. The original purpose was to reduce fuel use in the evening

That's fine if people go to bed an hour earlier because it's dark an hour earlier. Now it is a pointless convention because the sun is wasted at 6am while most people are still in bed and most people are awake at 5pm when it will be getting dark.

It one of the most pointless traditions we observe. We do it for no reason other than the fact that we have always done it (in our lives at least)

Peregrinus · 27-10-2016 7:11am

No, it gets dark an hour later in the summer as a result of observing summer time. We all get up an hour earlier than we otherwise would, and as a result we go to bed an hour earlier, reducing the amount of fuel we consume to light our evenings.

andekwarhola · 27-10-2016 7:14am

It's causes me minor annoyance so even though I don't fully understand the rationale and its application to others, it must change.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:31am

Losty Dublin wrote:

If clocks were left forward the year round then farmers and other outdoor workers lose an hour in the morning, not to mention commuters. In some more northern areas sunrise wouldn't occur until close to 10AM at the most extreme.

Farmers/construction workers can use electric lights in the morning the same way they use electric lights in the evening. They now need to be working at 6am to actually use the light and finish early. That makes no sense over leaving the clocks alone.

Esel wrote:

??? Same amount of daylight, no matter what 'time' it is...

Well yes but changing the clocks puts more light in the morning when lots of people are in bed, and less light in the evening when more people are out and about. Why not try to tailor it to have most light when people are at least awake?

Peregrinus wrote:

No, it gets dark an hour later in the summer as a result of observing summer time. We all get up an hour earlier than we otherwise would, and as a result we go to bed an hour earlier, reducing the amount of fuel we consume to light our evenings.

I don't think I get this point. If I work 9-5 and I go to bed at 11 in summer time, then I'll still keep the same hours in winter time. When the clock goes back I'll still go to bed at 11 but it will be dark and cold earlier meaning I'll use more light and heating for longer in the evening.

And in winter we get up later and go to bed later, while shifting the light hours back meaning we sleep through some of the light in the morning and are awake in darkness in the evening.

Light is precious in winter and we put some of it out of the normal wake cycle. Crazy stuff

secman · 27-10-2016 7:47am

At the lowest point in winter we get close your just 8 hours of light, which is approximately 8 am to 4 pm. But in parts of Scotland it is 9 am to 5pm. If UK didn't make the change those parts of Scotland would not see daylight until spprox 10 am.

So if UK decided to leave it as it is, Scotland would have another referendum to leave the UK:)

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:57am

secman wrote:

At the lowest point in winter we get close your just 8 hours of light, which is approximately 8 am to 4 pm. But in parts of Scotland it is 9 am to 5pm. If UK didn't make the change those parts of Scotland would not see daylight until spprox 10 am.

As it stands it gets dark by 4 in December. So were well used to working in the dark. So what if it doesn't get bright til 10? Being bright at 6am is completely pointless and means most people will miss some if the brightness while most people will catch the extra darkness in the evening.

cbyrd · 27-10-2016 8:30am

I can't wait for the clocks to go back, I feel like my sleep rhythm returns to normal. It's easier to get up in the mornings and easier to get the kids to bed early.
Better all round

somesoldiers · 27-10-2016 8:52am

I was trying to organise two separate calls with some colleagues in Sydney & San Francisco during the week and my head almost exploded trying to work out a suitable time that wouldn't mean me coming in a stupid o'clock or them having to stay too late

Oz clocks go forward in Oct back in April
SF are 8 hours behind now but 7 behind GMT which all changes next week when our clocks go back or does it.....I give up

and Muricans seem completely oblivious to any of this going on at all which doesn't help

Quackster · 27-10-2016 11:24am

Whatever about skipping winter time entirely, for economic reasons it certainly would make sense for the EU to align when the clocks go forward/back with North America.

Clocks there don't go back until the 6th November and they go forward again on the 12th March next year so they have three weeks less of winter time.

silverharp · 27-10-2016 11:30am

out of curiosity what happens in night clubs these days, I have this fr Ted picture in my head where at 2am the bar staff put the clocks back one hour, and someone shouts out "more drink!" to loud applause

midnight city · 27-10-2016 11:38am

Harvey Normal wrote: »

That bugs me too. At least do it end February.

Dead right then we would only have 4 months of what feels like the depth of winter.

pedigree 6 · 27-10-2016 11:58am

Right thanks to a pm from the powers above, I have included a poll on this subject.
So if you would like the time to stay the as it is vote Yes.
If you would like the clocks to go back an hour on Saturday night vote No.
There is also a don't know option.

Please everyone vote.

Agricola · 27-10-2016 12:05pm

silverharp wrote: »

out of curiosity what happens in night clubs these days, I have this fr Ted picture in my head where at 2am the bar staff put the clocks back one hour, and someone shouts out "more drink!" to loud applause

Used to hope for that too but closing time was closing time as usual!

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 12:09pm

I'm somebody who loves the lead up to Christmas and the clocks going back is part of this for me.
I'd howeve think they could put the clocks back in late November and bring them forward at the start of March.
I just think the mornings in December would be to dark especially for children going to school.
I think the UK kept the Summer time in the late sixties/early seventies and it wasn't a success!

Tombo2001 · 27-10-2016 12:11pm

Its really simple. Kids shouldn't be walking to school in the dark.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 12:21pm

freshpopcorn wrote:

I think the UK kept the Summer time in the late sixties/early seventies and it wasn't a success!

What happened that made it not a success?

freshpopcorn wrote:

I just think the mornings in December would be to dark especially for children going to school.

Tombo2001 wrote:

Its really simple. Kids shouldn't be walking to school in the dark.

This is the argument that occurs most often and it seems perfectly satisfying for lots of people so I think it's fair to ask what it's based on. Are there a lot more accidents involving school children when it's dark? Do t most children wear a high vis vest, helmet and a zorbing costume, just to all to the shop these days anyway?

Do children actually walk to school on their own in winter? Should children be walking to school on their own if it's so dangerous?

sashafierce · 27-10-2016 12:22pm

This post has been deleted.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 12:44pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What happened that made it not a success?

I did read an article and it said their were a lot of accidents I'm the morning during the period but few in the evening. So its hard to know. It was around the same time drunk driving laws were introduced so it's hard to tell.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is the argument that occurs most often and it seems perfectly satisfying for lots of people so I think it's fair to ask what it's based on. Are there a lot more accidents involving school children when it's dark? Do t most children wear a high vis vest, helmet and a zorbing costume, just to all to the shop these days anyway?

Do children actually walk to school on their own in winter? Should children be walking to school on their own if it's so dangerous?

Lots of children/teenagers I'm rural areas have designated collection point for school buses in rural and theirs no street lighting and with the amount of cars on the I do think it would be dangerous.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 1:23pm

freshpopcorn wrote:

Lots of children/teenagers I'm rural areas have designated collection point for school buses in rural and theirs no street lighting and with the amount of cars on the I do think it would be dangerous.

Presumably those same children are dropped off at those drop points in the dark in the evening after school? Sounds like a zero sum to me. Wouldn't choosing better prop off points be more practical? Changing the time zone for the whole country seems a bit like an over reaction.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2016 1:34pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Presumably those same children are dropped off at those drop points in the dark in the evening after school? Sounds like a zero sum to me. Wouldn't choosing better prop off points be more practical? Changing the time zone for the whole country seems a bit like an over reaction.

There's more factors than just children to take in is say.
School buses in my area generally have primary school children dropped off just after three and secondary before half four so they'd never be in the dark in the evenings. In rural areas their aren't really well lit areas for collection points in my experience often the most lit area would be primary school.

Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

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