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Journalism and cycling

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    #272
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/cyclist-83-died-after-collision-on-avenue-road-35140267.html
    An inquest into the death of John Byrne (83)… heard that at around 10am on the morning of June 9th 2016 Mr. Byrne, who lived at 40 Cluan Enda, had been cycling along the Avenue Road when he was involved in a road traffic collision.
    [At] Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda… it emerged he had suffered a 'traumatic head injury.'
    The inquest heard there was damage to the front of a car which was also involved in the collision.
    Mr. Byrne… passed away on June 20th.
    Coroner Ronan Maguire… said that it was tragic for them to have lost someone they loved in this way.
    He added that there was 'an inherent danger with cycling' and tragically John had lost his life.


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    #273
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    That's some nifty editorialising, Coroner Ronan Maguire.

    (Note the driverless car that was "involved" in the collision too.)


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    #274
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation. But the whole tone - "tragically, John had lost his life" due to the "inherent danger in cycling" - how careless of John. That life must be somewhere around the place, he's just, tragically, lost it.


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    #275
    WindomEarle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 ✭WindomEarle


    Chuchote wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/cyclist-83-died-after-collision-on-avenue-road-35140267.html
    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's some nifty editorialising, Coroner Ronan Maguire.

    (Note the driverless car that was "involved" in the collision too.)

    Bizarre - whatever about journalists coming out with this tripe, for a professional coroner, who is paid by the State to investigate and judge the outcome of sudden deaths, to come out with this tripe is quite scary.

    I don't suppose there is a Coroner's professional body?


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    #276
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation. But the whole tone - "tragically, John had lost his life" due to the "inherent danger in cycling" - how careless of John. That life must be somewhere around the place, he's just, tragically, lost it.

    I'm keeping an open mind on the coroner's motives/intentions with those statements. If a state coroner suggests that there is something "inherently" dangerous about cycling, or the current environment cyclists are forced to operate in, then such a finding can force the state to act. As I see it, there are three potential actions that the state could take:

    1: Ban cycling. It's inherently dangerous.
    2: Ban motor vehicles. They create an inherently dangerous environment for pedestrians and cyclists.
    3: Develop the necessary infrastructure to create a safe environment for pedestrians and cyclists.

    I don't seriously think options 1 or 2 are viable, but if a state employee is officially suggesting that there is an inherent danger to cyclists, due to the lack of infrastructure, then this is another compelling argument to develop the necessary infrastructure.

    Also: "I was knocked down while cycling. The coroner said cycling is inherently dangerous in Ireland. Cycling is not considered inherently dangerous elsewhere. My contention is that my accident was the direct result of neglect on behalf of the state. Therefore I am suing the state." x10,000 cyclists.


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    #277
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,772 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Mind you, the inquest was put off for now due to a Garda investigation.
    which begs the question about why they started in the first place; are there complicating factors with the investigation that it's taking longer than expected?


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    #278
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Isn't there an 'inherent danger' in driving too? Or everything for that matter? It seems like an accurate, but stupid, thing to bring up.

    There is a fourth option too Moflojo. Write off any cyclist death or injury as an unavoidable consequence of the inherent danger. This is the most likely result in my opinion.


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    #279
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death? In this case, it's clear enough: traumatic brain injury from being hit by a car. Whether it was the cyclist's fault he was hit, partly or completely, is another matter, and it's not really his business to be opining on that one way or the other. Particularly with such airy generalities as "the inherent danger of cycling", which is rather similar to the "inherent danger of walking" anyway.


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    #280
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,336 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death? In this case, it's clear enough: traumatic brain injury from being hit by a car. Whether it was the cyclist's fault he was hit, partly or completely, is another matter, and it's not really his business to be opining on that one way or the other. Particularly with such airy generalities as "the inherent danger of cycling", which is rather similar to the "inherent danger of walking" anyway.

    Its completely standard for the coroner to make comments and give their (possibly incorrect) opinion on matters they consider of public importance. It's part of their role.


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    #281
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,772 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong (please do; I really am not an expert), but isn't it the role of the coroner to judge on the cause of death?
    what's the difference between the role of an autopsy and the role of an inquest?
    surely - if the above - the inquest is just rubberstamping the autopsy report?
    or is 'cause of death' to include more than just the medical cause of death, i.e. also why the death occurred?


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    #282
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    what's the difference between the role of an autopsy and the role of an inquest?
    surely - if the above - the inquest is just rubberstamping the autopsy report?
    or is 'cause of death' to include more than just the medical cause of death, i.e. also why the death occurred?

    The autopsy is the 'post-mortem' - the examination of the dead body to find the physical/medical cause of death.

    The inquest can call witnesses who saw a collision, etc, and judge what was the cause of death - accident, unlawful killing, etc.


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    #283
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html
    Perhaps wrongly, I've always taken a droll view of how men treat women. The groping. The patronising. The breaking of hearts. But when it comes to money, I take a hard line.

    Because that's what cycling is really about. Doing business and cutting us out. When I worked in Silicon Valley years ago, I met a venture capitalist who was revered by his colleagues, not for his great deals, but for taking part in the Paris-Roubaix cycling competition. Its terrain is so rough, including a long stretch over cobbles, they have to build bikes capable of withstanding the course. The venture capatalist wasn't religious but reeked of piety, a quality I have long despised. Give me a cigar-smoking old fart with a great belly-laugh any day.

    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √


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    #284
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,772 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the key four words are the four at the end of the article.


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    #285
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,772 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    amusingly, one of the promoted articles (from external links, not on the indo) underneath is '13 unexpectedly attractive female billionaires'. that comes across as an article that was pitched as a pisstake but was taken seriously.


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    #286
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    On a cheerier note, a TED talk by an Israeli IT university founder about cycling with kids from the local reformatory:



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    #287
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html



    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √

    I like the juxtaposition of the article. Being "held up" by a few cyclists for a few seconds, versus hundreds of thousands of cars grinding the city to a halt on a daily basis. It's good to have balance and perspective in journalism.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-motorway-or-carpark-how-irelands-busiest-route-is-at-breakdown-point-35155501.html


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    #288
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Sarah Carey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Carey) in a huff at having to share the road with cyclists http://www.independent.ie/life/cycling-is-the-new-golf-35139368.html



    Latent homosexuality √
    Women have too much sense to cycle sportively √
    Shocking dear bikes √
    Me stuck behind them √

    Sadly you would expect the Sindo to come out with such tripe on a regular basis. That rag isn't even worthy of emergency toilet roll replacement.


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    #289
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,772 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I like the juxtaposition of the article. Being "held up" by a few cyclists for a few seconds, versus hundreds of thousands of cars grinding the city to a halt on a daily basis. It's good to have balance and perspective in journalism.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-motorway-or-carpark-how-irelands-busiest-route-is-at-breakdown-point-35155501.html
    his closing comments in this article are interesting:
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/paul-melia-politicians-are-failing-to-keep-the-capital-moving-35155503.html


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    #290
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    his closing comments in this article are interesting:
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/paul-melia-politicians-are-failing-to-keep-the-capital-moving-35155503.html

    It's surprising that the cost of running a car - averaging €11,000 a year according to the AA, but probably up on that now, since the AA's figures didn't include recent rises in car insurance - isn't being publicised. People who are struggling to save a deposit to buy a home could save €33,000 in three years merely by switching to cycling. Not only would it stop the gridlock on the M50, it would have a knock-on effect on the country's health bill and carbon footprint.

    Some old US figures in this TED talk about bicycles as a vehicle for social change; it would surely be possible to find the equivalent Irish figures:



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    #291
    endagibson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    I found this article last week more interesting just for the idea of people complaining about the state of the M50 and the traffic on it, while posting on social media presumably while using it.


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    #292
    WindomEarle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 ✭WindomEarle


    endagibson wrote: »
    I found this article last week more interesting just for the idea of people complaining about the state of the M50 and the traffic on it, while posting on social media presumably while using it.

    I'm pretty sure I heard one of the heads on Newstalk's breakfast show this morning saying something like 'text us in if you're stuck in traffic on the M50 - you won't be doing anything wrong if you're stopped, right?"

    Amadán.


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    #293
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    WindomEarle wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure I heard one of the heads on Newstalk's breakfast show this morning saying something like 'text us in if you're stuck in traffic on the M50 - you won't be doing anything wrong if you're stopped, right?"

    Amadán.

    Gosh, I wonder could they cite that Newstalk jockey if they were brought up in court.


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    #294
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Fian


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Gosh, I wonder could they cite that Newstalk jockey if they were brought up in court.

    Nope, doesn't make it any less irresponsible of them of course.


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    #295
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Weakish letter from Roger Garland today - it starts off strong, asking for compulsory purchase of land beside roads for cycling and walking trails, but the last line weakens it; first line and last line quoted here:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/funding-for-cycling-1.2842905
    In response to the report from the UN Environmental Programme (News, October 21st) about the lack of funding for proper infrastructure for cycling and walking, which the report says is partly responsible for the unacceptable number of road deaths of these vulnerable road users, Keep Ireland Open has been campaigning for some years for improved safety for recreational walkers and cyclists…
    We call on the government-sponsored National Waymarked Ways committee, who manage the Wicklow Way, to use their influence to good effect.

    Oddly, though the letter is very clearly about cycling and walking, the headline is only about cycling; Irish Times trying to bait a controversy?


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    #296
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chuchote wrote: »
    It's surprising that the cost of running a car - averaging €11,000 a year according to the AA, but probably up on that now, since the AA's figures didn't include recent rises in car insurance - isn't being publicised. People who are struggling to save a deposit to buy a home could save €33,000 in three years merely by switching to cycling. Not only would it stop the gridlock on the M50, it would have a knock-on effect on the country's health bill and carbon footprint.

    Some old US figures in this TED talk about bicycles as a vehicle for social change; it would surely be possible to find the equivalent Irish figures:



    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night


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    #297
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    average_runner wrote: »
    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night

    The Dutch and Danes manage to do all this and more on bikes, and the country's buses are full of people going home for the weekend.
    What is this thing about showers in work? I've never needed a shower after cycling in to work. It's not the Tour de France!


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    #298
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The saving Chuchote is talking about are really big if you don't actually own a car as average_runner says. I just rent cars, but I am fit and have a cargo bike, and a tolerant wife who doesn't herself drive, and who appreciates the couple of grand extra a year more than she would a car (which I would barely ever drive, even if I had it.) We also live near the Luas and we don't mind bus travel at all.


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    #299
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Chuchote wrote: »
    What is this thing about showers in work? I've never needed a shower after cycling in to work
    It depends on how far from work you live though. I couldn't amble along at 15kmh for my 30+km cycle


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    #300
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    average_runner wrote: »
    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    51933749.jpg
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    aeb2512fe603a8c0bac0c59abdbdcf39.jpg
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    GoCar or the club organises transport.
    5) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night


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    #301
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    It depends on how far from work you live though. I couldn't amble along at 15kmh for my 30+km cycle

    Well, yes, good point. And if there aren't showers in work, it might be worth factoring in a quick visit to the nearest Corpo swimming pool to your work, where you could shower and change.

    But getting back to the economics, people often buy houses in Gorey or the lonely reaches of Co Meath for the savings in house prices. But if they factored in the cost of commuting and added it to their mortgage payments, they might actually be far better off to ditch the car and buy in Kimmage or Whitehall and cycle to work and school.

    If they want to go home on the weekend and visit the mammy (an idea I warmly commend), apart from the bus there's car hire, which has come down in price startlingly in recent years.


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