Conscription

Fleawuss · 22-10-2016 10:16AM

me_right_one wrote: »

I assume you ARE 18 so. I assume that you have no backbone, would flinch at the sight of a rifle, and would like to join the UK as part of a sub-category of a province. I assume you are a fine gael voter, you think gayness is ok, and you would like abortion to be normalised to the point that you could get "abortion vouchers" to be available as birthday / Christmas presents.

My assumption is open to correction.

What a wonderful collection of prejudices pretending to be a personality.

Collie D · 22-10-2016 10:17AM

Fleawuss wrote: »

What a wonderful collection of prejudices pretending to be a personality.

The Fine Gael one was especially uncalled for.

matrim · 22-10-2016 10:20AM

me_right_one wrote: »

So far, 8 nancy boy anti-conscription posts. Typical of boards. I believe every 18 year old should be made do 2 years national service, war or not.

Why stop at 18? Why not change it to every man and woman between 18 and retirement should be forced to do up to 2 years national service?

SafeSurfer · 22-10-2016 10:20AM

The flying mouse wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

People automatically think of WW1 when talking about conscription and the needles slaughter of the working class. What if the generation of Brits and yanks in WW2 rejected conscription? Would we all be speaking German now?
Citizens have never been as eager to exercise their rights but have little appetite for defending them.

It has been cancelled in the USA since 1973 and it doesn't seemed to have any effect on there foreign policy's.

Sweden had conscription in its people up to a few years ago, even though they were neutral during the two world wars.

Some folks say having a professional trained Army is much better than a forced conscription Army where the strength/will to fight is not as ingrained ??

.

Are you talking about national service or conscription? In times of war you can be guaranteed conscription would be introduced if necessary.

Winterlong · 22-10-2016 10:26AM

Fleawuss wrote: »

What a wonderful collection of prejudices pretending to be a personality.

Trolling 101. Must try harder.

Jesus. · 22-10-2016 10:26AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Men were put out there to face the line, a member of my family died in the Great War.My grandfather his son died during WW2. (RAF)These men gave it all, they gave their lives.I wouldn't be very confident if a conscription call was given today.Men seem to be acting like nancy boys or emotional wrecks. You'd want a proper men putting the head forward. Men of Honour.

I have to agree with you OP. Modern man has been browbeaten by feminists into becoming almost female themselves. A lad who lost his wife in the Paris attacks was on the radio the other day and someone text in this: "We are builders on the way to work and we couldn't see out the windscreen with all the tears. We had to pull in and ring our wives...." can't remember the rest.

Seriously wtf???

Sue Pa Key Pa · 22-10-2016 10:41AM

me_right_one wrote: »

So far, 8 nancy boy anti-conscription posts. Typical of boards. I believe every 18 year old should be made do 2 years national service, war or not.

To what end? Why would you want a production line of war ready citizens? For a start, there aren't enough Securicor vans for them all to follow up and down the country, we only have 1 St. Patrick's day for them all to march in and not all of them would be good enough to play in the band. On top of that, Michael D would never get to a Galway game if he had to inspect every soldier in a Guard of Honour

Collie D · 22-10-2016 10:46AM

Any real soldiers here? How would you feel about babysitting a bunch of young lads who have absolutely zero interest in being there?

corner of hells · 22-10-2016 10:47AM

The flying mouse wrote: »

RAMBO

Bless you. Have you a cold ?

Barry Badrinath · 22-10-2016 10:47AM

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

To what end? Why would you want a production line of war ready citizens? For a start, there aren't enough Securicor vans for them all to follow up and down the country, we only have 1 St. Patrick's day for them all to march in and not all of them would be good enough to play in the band. On top of that, Michael D would never get to a Galway game if he had to inspect every soldier in a Guard of Honour

For balance.

1. Cash in Transit protection is not a function that the Defence Forces perform anymore...in a few years actually.

2. The RDF are the ones who mostly march in parades on St.Patricks Day.

3. There are a number of different types of Guards of Honour, none of which will ever require every soldier to attend.

4. I agree that there is no requirement for national service.

Barry Badrinath · 22-10-2016 10:51AM

Collie D wrote: »

Any real soldiers here? How would you feel about babysitting a bunch of young lads who have absolutely zero interest in being there?

Conscription or National Service?

Collie D · 22-10-2016 10:54AM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Conscription or National Service?

Fair point. National Service. I'd imagine in a conscription into battle scenario most people would get serious once bullets started flying.

Dyr · 22-10-2016 11:07AM

My grandparents all answered the call and did their bit to shoot de brits.

No need for it today anyway. Might be handy to have a few thousand lads taken up leitrim way and trained in on AK's in case them lot in the north get notions again what with all this talk of reunification

Barry Badrinath · 22-10-2016 11:09AM

Collie D wrote: »

Fair point. National Service.

Well since we have neither Coscription nor National Service at the moment I can only speak from experience of being in Recruit training and from training Recruits myself.

A few general ideas first, Ireland specific.

If Ireland ever needed a standing military of a sizeable force, we could have a reasonable one without Conscriprion or National Service.

There are enough able bodied and well trained ex soldiers in the country that could be re activated into the DF if required. To a lesser extent, well trained Reserve and ex Reserve members who have integrated into permanent units would also be stood up.

In terms of national service. Well, that would cost a hell of a lot of funding, funding which we as a State simply could not afford.

Without going into things further, in all accounts, soldiering is not as easy as it seems. It can be incredibly complicated and is rife with hardship.

Because of this, to soldier, you have to want to soldier. If you have to force, coerce or incentify someone to do it, it fails.

j.s. pill II · 22-10-2016 11:12AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why don't you act like a man of honour and volunteer to go and fight ISIS.With the attitude you've shown in your post I assume you are a real man and I predict you'll end the conflict in a matter of weeks.

Is that you there OP??

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-stopped-by-airport-security-after-attempting-to-travel-to-fight-isis-35149479.html

Widdershins · 22-10-2016 11:15AM

First, I hope there's never a need for conscripton. If there was, I agree that people wouldn't be up to it. That goes for men and women. We don't have the backbone that people had in those days. Every second word out of some of my friends' mouths is something like ''that's too hard, I can't do that'' ''that would take too long'', or ''can't be arsed'' .

Widdershins · 22-10-2016 11:16AM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Well since we have neither Coscription nor National Service at the moment I can only speak from experience of being in Recruit training and from training Recruits myself.

A few general ideas first, Ireland specific.

If Ireland ever needed a standing military of a sizeable force, we could have a reasonable one without Conscriprion or National Service.

There are enough able bodied and well trained ex soldiers in the country that could be re activated into the DF if required. To a lesser extent, well trained Reserve and ex Reserve members who have integrated into permanent units would also be stood up.

In terms of national service. Well, that would cost a hell of a lot of funding, funding which we as a State simply could not afford.

Without going into things further, in all accounts, soldiering is not as easy as it seems. It can be incredibly complicated and is rife with hardship.

Because of this, to soldier, you have to want to soldier. If you have to force, coerce or incentify someone to do it, it fails.

I hope the few ex soldiers I know are atypical. They're strong but also fat, soft and gone to seed.

Barry Badrinath · 22-10-2016 11:27AM

Widdershins wrote: »

I hope the few ex soldiers I know are atypical. They're strong but also fat, soft and gone to seed.

Without insulting you but what you see isnt important. You have no idea of their military qualifications or what they have done. You just see a fat, soft and gone to seed ex soldier.

Thats not unreasonable and also not specific to ex soldiers.

There are many different types of soldiers. To perform the function of an Infantry soldier you need to be reasonably fit, physically and mentally robust, determined and focussed. They are the ones you see assaulting enemy positions etc on TV.

An able bodied but less physically fit, fat, soft and gone to seed ex soldier could perfectly perform administrative, logistical, technical tasks which free up the fitter troops.

corner of hells · 22-10-2016 11:29AM

Widdershins wrote: »

First, I hope there's never a need for conscripton. If there was, I agree that people wouldn't be up to it. That goes for men and women. We don't have the backbone that people had in those days. Every second word out of some of my friends' mouths is something like ''that's too hard, I can't do that'' ''that would take too long'', or ''can't be arsed'' .

Sure you must be a ferocious character yourself.
A few more like you we would be grand.

BoJack Horseman · 22-10-2016 11:33AM

Widdershins wrote: »

First, I hope there's never a need for conscripton. If there was, I agree that people wouldn't be up to it. That goes for men and women. We don't have the backbone that people had in those days. Every second word out of some of my friends' mouths is something like ''that's too hard, I can't do that'' ''that would take too long'', or ''can't be arsed'' .

Well, that is what training is for.

I think young Irish folk would both benefit from and rise to the challenge of a period of national service.

It isn't doing the Finns any harm.

WhoWhatWhere · 22-10-2016 11:41AM

me_right_one wrote: »

I assume you ARE 18 so. I assume that you have no backbone, would flinch at the sight of a rifle, and would like to join the UK as part of a sub-category of a province. I assume you are a fine gael voter, you think gayness is ok, and you would like abortion to be normalised to the point that you could get "abortion vouchers" to be available as birthday / Christmas presents.

My assumption is open to correction.

Theres so much wrong with this idk where to begin.

Firstly, shut up please.

Unless you are actively serving the military or you were and can provide proof, you've not a leg to stand on.

The point about "thinking gayness is okay" is a moot point as being gay is not only okay - It's deemed as such by a majority of the country. But unless you're some kid who's trolling, you're an out of touch oul man who's sitting in his chair and gets fed puree.

Abortion gift vouchers? Dude just shut up.

Holograph · 22-10-2016 11:47AM

me_right_one wrote: »

I assume you ARE 18 so. I assume that you have no backbone, would flinch at the sight of a rifle, and would like to join the UK as part of a sub-category of a province. I assume you are a fine gael voter, you think gayness is ok, and you would like abortion to be normalised to the point that you could get "abortion vouchers" to be available as birthday / Christmas presents.

My assumption is open to correction.

excellently nutty post! I assume their assertion that you're older than 18 was correct.

But as others said, it's easy for someone who doesn't have to do national service to endorse others doing it.

Jesus. wrote: »

I have to agree with you OP. Modern man has been browbeaten by feminists into becoming almost female themselves. A lad who lost his wife in the Paris attacks was on the radio the other day and someone text in this: "We are builders on the way to work and we couldn't see out the windscreen with all the tears. We had to pull in and ring our wives...." can't remember the rest.

Seriously wtf???

Ah come on, it's one of the saddest things you could ever hear - being really upset by it is a human reaction, nothing to do with feminism. I think it's a positive thing that men don't feel forced into hiding their emotions now. Nothing to stop a man from being really upset by something as horrific as the stories from the Paris attacks... and simultaneously "manly". That's not the same as the lads who are obsessed with their hair etc.

Esel · 22-10-2016 11:47AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

... Would we all be speaking German now? ...

Da?

Are your there, Da?

osarusan · 22-10-2016 11:47AM

The ones people think are most in need of being toughened up or straightened out or whatever are the ones who would find a way to get out of it anyway.

Barry Badrinath · 22-10-2016 11:48AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Well, that is what training is for.

I think young Irish folk would both benefit from and rise to the challenge of a period of national service.

It isn't doing the Finns any harm.

Thats true but the conscript Finn's arent great.

WhoWhatWhere · 22-10-2016 11:49AM

Jesus. wrote: »

I have to agree with you OP. Modern man has been browbeaten by feminists into becoming almost female themselves. A lad who lost his wife in the Paris attacks was on the radio the other day and someone text in this: "We are builders on the way to work and we couldn't see out the windscreen with all the tears. We had to pull in and ring our wives...." can't remember the rest.

Seriously wtf???

Is this bait?...

Your Face · 22-10-2016 11:56AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Men seem to be acting like nancy boys or emotional wrecks. You'd want a proper men putting the head forward. Men of Honour.

If it makes you feel better many of those men and women were emotional wrecks when they returned home.
I strongly suggest you read a few history books pertaining to the subject you brought up.

CdeC · 22-10-2016 11:59AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Men were put out there to face the line, a member of my family died in the Great War.

My grandfather his son died during WW2. (RAF)

These men gave it all, they gave their lives.

I wouldn't be very confident if a conscription call was given today.

Men seem to be acting like nancy boys or emotional wrecks. You'd want a proper men putting the head forward. Men of Honour.

Nancy Boy - Placebo

Now that was a class tune. Could be our conscription theme tune

Capt'n Midnight · 22-10-2016 12:14PM

During the American Civil War conscription was universal. Rich or poor could be called up.

Of course the rich could hire someone to take their place. Nowadays those connected can spend their time in the National Guard.

Until the rich and powerful are on the front line , don't expect their interests to match yours during a war. And yes the Royal Navy did pay the Germans patent royalties on the shells produced during WWI.

Widdershins · 22-10-2016 12:18PM

corner of hells wrote: »

Sure you must be a ferocious character yourself.
A few more like you we would be grand.

I'm not volunteering. An army of me's would make the enemy wee their pants with laughter. It's the mentality I'm talking about. Like it or not the quality is called Grit and whether people possess this quality is a hot topic at the moment. My opinion is that many don't, in part because we've not needed it so much, in our lifetimes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/margaretperlis/2013/10/29/5-characteristics-of-grit-what-it-is-why-you-need-it-and-do-you-have-it/#62fb88d61f76

Conscription

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